Time to Move on Ryan Church

[BigbadB]

About Church's "attitude", that's nothing a change of scenery can't fixed. I mean if Carl Everett can keep landing a job, or Milton Bradley, keeps landed on his feet, then Church is a walk in the part.

 

I still like to see a Mateo/Marshall for Church/Wagner deal, tho.

 

Cubs are stacked in the bullpen. They don't need more bullpen arms. I would be very cautious dealing Marshall. Not too many 6'7 left-handers can throw with control. I love how he keeps himself cool and calm under pressure.

 

First: Just because the Cubs are "stacked in the bullpen" doesn't mean the Cubs bullpen is any good. Outside of Howry/Erye/Ohman, the Cubs bullpen is full of ??? and crappy pitchers. So I think the upside of Wagner is greater then that of guys like Novoa/Wuertz, etc. And I like Marshall, but if the Cubs can fill two needs with one stone, then you do it. Marshall may never be anything more then a 4/5 starter in the majors, and those are expendable.

 

Cubs are a tremendous strength right now in the bullpen. A lot of people forget Dempster was pretty solid with regular work. Kerry Wood, Cotts, the kids filling in, Wuertz. Nothing wrong in the pen.

[C.C.]

About Church's "attitude", that's nothing a change of scenery can't fixed. I mean if Carl Everett can keep landing a job, or Milton Bradley, keeps landed on his feet, then Church is a walk in the part.

 

I still like to see a Mateo/Marshall for Church/Wagner deal, tho.

 

Cubs are stacked in the bullpen. They don't need more bullpen arms. I would be very cautious dealing Marshall. Not too many 6'7 left-handers can throw with control. I love how he keeps himself cool and calm under pressure.

 

First: Just because the Cubs are "stacked in the bullpen" doesn't mean the Cubs bullpen is any good. Outside of Howry/Erye/Ohman, the Cubs bullpen is full of ??? and crappy pitchers. So I think the upside of Wagner is greater then that of guys like Novoa/Wuertz, etc. And I like Marshall, but if the Cubs can fill two needs with one stone, then you do it. Marshall may never be anything more then a 4/5 starter in the majors, and those are expendable.

 

I agree I love Marshall's upside. It was when he lost focus he got into trouble. A sign of youth.

[C.C.]

About Church's "attitude", that's nothing a change of scenery can't fixed. I mean if Carl Everett can keep landing a job, or Milton Bradley, keeps landed on his feet, then Church is a walk in the part.

 

I still like to see a Mateo/Marshall for Church/Wagner deal, tho.

 

Cubs are stacked in the bullpen. They don't need more bullpen arms. I would be very cautious dealing Marshall. Not too many 6'7 left-handers can throw with control. I love how he keeps himself cool and calm under pressure.

 

First: Just because the Cubs are "stacked in the bullpen" doesn't mean the Cubs bullpen is any good. Outside of Howry/Erye/Ohman, the Cubs bullpen is full of ??? and crappy pitchers. So I think the upside of Wagner is greater then that of guys like Novoa/Wuertz, etc. And I like Marshall, but if the Cubs can fill two needs with one stone, then you do it. Marshall may never be anything more then a 4/5 starter in the majors, and those are expendable.

 

Cubs are a tremendous strength right now in the bullpen. A lot of people forget Dempster was pretty solid with regular work. Kerry Wood, Cotts, the kids filling in, Wuertz. Nothing wrong in the pen.

 

Agreed. Pen looks strong for next year.

[Ivy Walls]

They are not going to move Soriano anywhere but RF where he will be an All Star. Church is a good young MLB player who needs a good manager who will treat him without nonsensical games.

 

That said; outside of Soriano, D-Lee, A-Ramirez I don't see the Cubs having a set everyday lineup.

 

First if Barrett stays (that is unlikely but until a deal is made) he will catch every other day with Blanco.

 

In the middle infield I see DeRosa-Theriot and E Patterson and possibly Cedeno (who gets a second chance) platooning regularly. If Izturis is kepted (until mid season) than E Patterson goes to AAA, but he is close to ready.

 

In the OF I see the Cubs getting Floyd or trading for Church to platoon with with Murton in LF and something like trading for Baldelli or signing Lofton along with Pagan in CF.

 

Ward is the quinessential PH off the bench.

 

Piniella won't go strict lefty/righty either and then go with a 11-man pitching staff...

 

Opening day: SP Zambrano-Lilly-Hill-Marquis (who will surprise because of mechanic correction over the winter) RP: Howry-Eyre-Cotts-Novoa-Miller-Wood-Wuertz (with Prior going on the 15-day and called up in April).

 

IF: D-Lee-Theriot-DeRosa-A-Ramirez C-Barrett-Blanco

OF: Church-Lofton-Soriano

Bench: Murton-Pagan-Patterson-Cedeno-Ward-

[Ivy Walls]

The lineup will probably could look like:

 

against tough RHP's

 

Soriano-RF

Lofton-CF

D-Lee-1B

A-Ramirez-3B

Church-LF

Barrett-C

DeRosa-SS

Patterson-2B

pitcher

 

against tough LHP's

 

Soriano-RF

Theriot-2B

D-Lee-1B

A-Ramirez-3B

Murton-LF

Blanco-C

Pagan-CF

Izturis (or Cedeno)-SS

pitcher

[cbbryan]

They are not going to move Soriano anywhere but RF where he will be an All Star. Church is a good young MLB player who needs a good manager who will treat him without nonsensical games.

 

That said; outside of Soriano, D-Lee, A-Ramirez I don't see the Cubs having a set everyday lineup.

 

First if Barrett stays (that is unlikely but until a deal is made) he will catch every other day with Blanco.

 

In the middle infield I see DeRosa-Theriot and E Patterson and possibly Cedeno (who gets a second chance) platooning regularly. If Izturis is kepted (until mid season) than E Patterson goes to AAA, but he is close to ready.

 

In the OF I see the Cubs getting Floyd or trading for Church to platoon with with Murton in LF and something like trading for Baldelli or signing Lofton along with Pagan in CF.

 

Ward is the quinessential PH off the bench.

 

Piniella won't go strict lefty/righty either and then go with a 11-man pitching staff...

 

Opening day: SP Zambrano-Lilly-Hill-Marquis (who will surprise because of mechanic correction over the winter) RP: Howry-Eyre-Cotts-Novoa-Miller-Wood-Wuertz (with Prior going on the 15-day and called up in April).

 

IF: D-Lee-Theriot-DeRosa-A-Ramirez C-Barrett-Blanco

OF: Church-Lofton-Soriano

Bench: Murton-Pagan-Patterson-Cedeno-Ward-

 

Barrett plays every other day? Seriously? If he's completely healthy, which I haven't heard that he's not............... he'll be in the line-up practically everyday.

 

I also don't see how the Cubs have given you any indication that DeRosa won't be playing basically everyday.

 

Theriot will be more of the supersub unless something happens to DeRosa. While I like EPatt, I don't see how he'll be on the 25 man to start the season. I would go as far to say that Pie would be on the roster before EPatt.

 

I would also be suprised if the Cubs signed Floyd at this point. All indications point to Murton starting in LF and not participating in a platoon. Soriano in RF. And JJ in CF until he is traded. Lofton is a possibility there as well.

[tkenm356]

Didn't see this posted anywhere

 

Dec 8 - The Cubs have held talks with the Nationals about center fielder Ryan Church, the Chicago Sun-Times reports. Left-hander Sean Marshall, a Virginia native, is thought to be involved in the deal, though the Nats are believed to be more interested in right-hander Carlos Marmol, a 24-year-old the Cubs might be hesitant to move.

 

According to the Washington Post, the Phillies and Tigers are also interested in Church. The Nats were involved in a three-way discussion with Detroit and Baltimore in which Washington would have received a pitcher from the Orioles. But Washington didn't want starter Rodrigo Lopez and preferred a younger, cheaper option.

 

 

ARE YOU KIDDING? The Cubs don't want to move Marmol for him?!?!?! Don't get me wrong, I like Marmol and his potential, but he's not going to be an ace any time soon, and if Hendry has his way he'll have a rotation that doesn't involve him or any of his rookie pals from last year.

 

Move him for Church! Hell, take him and Marshall if you want for all I care! We need someone like Church more than we'll need someone like Marmol or Marshall

[CoolHandLuke]

I can't believe that this win now version of Hendry wouldn't make that move.

[CubsWin]

I can't believe that this win now version of Hendry wouldn't make that move.

The quote didn't say that he wouldn't make that move, only that the Cubs are believed to be hesitant to trade Marmol if they can move Marshall instead. Hendry might be willing to trade Marmol for Church, he might not. But I think its a good sign that he is at least trying to make the Nationals think that its Marshall and others or nothing and see if they go for it.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Also, with Hill and Lilly pegged for the rotation as left-handers, Hendry might want to hold on the right-handed Marmol because if he doesn't win a starting job, he projects to have more value in the pen than does Marshall.

[erik316wttn]

I actually think Marshall could wind up being the better of the two.

 

Do it, Jim!

[Mizzou]

I can't believe that this win now version of Hendry wouldn't make that move.

And where exactly did it say that?

[CoolHandLuke]

I'm not saying that it said that. I'm saying that if he can get a deal done where he gets Church for Marmol or Marshall then I can't see him not working something out.

[OleMissCub]

Marmol for Church? Heck ya!

[CubinNY]

Marmol for Church? Heck ya!

 

Especially if they are intent in signing the Marquuis' of the pitching world.

[Southpaw191679666239]

Talks between the Cubs and Nationals regarding Ryan Church have reportedly cooled.

 

The Pirates are also showing less interest in Church. The Phillies may still want him, but it's unclear whether they'll part with Ryan Madson. The Royals and Tigers are among the other teams reported to have discussed Church with the Nationals.

Source: Chicago Sun-Times

 

:(

[tkenm356]

Talks between the Cubs and Nationals regarding Ryan Church have reportedly cooled.

 

The Pirates are also showing less interest in Church. The Phillies may still want him, but it's unclear whether they'll part with Ryan Madson. The Royals and Tigers are among the other teams reported to have discussed Church with the Nationals.

Source: Chicago Sun-Times

 

:(

 

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. This sucks

[abuck1220]

with rotation spots virtually guaranteed for lilly and marquis over the next 3-4 years, hill staking a solid claim to another, and the cubs hopefully working to extend zambrano, it's time to trade marshall, mateo, marmol, etc. if you just hold onto them to let them rot in AAA or in long relief, they're going to lose any value they have.

 

i mean, like seven guys are going to have to get hurt for someone like mateo to get starts.

[tkenm356]

with rotation spots virtually guaranteed for lilly and marquis over the next 3-4 years, hill staking a solid claim to another, and the cubs hopefully working to extend zambrano, it's time to trade marshall, mateo, marmol, etc. if you just hold onto them to let them rot in AAA or in long relief, they're going to lose any value they have.

 

i mean, like seven guys are going to have to get hurt for someone like mateo to get starts.

 

Here Here

[Schwarber Fan]

They are not going to move Soriano anywhere but RF where he will be an All Star. Church is a good young MLB player who needs a good manager who will treat him without nonsensical games.

 

That said; outside of Soriano, D-Lee, A-Ramirez I don't see the Cubs having a set everyday lineup.

 

First if Barrett stays (that is unlikely but until a deal is made) he will catch every other day with Blanco.

 

In the middle infield I see DeRosa-Theriot and E Patterson and possibly Cedeno (who gets a second chance) platooning regularly. If Izturis is kepted (until mid season) than E Patterson goes to AAA, but he is close to ready.

 

In the OF I see the Cubs getting Floyd or trading for Church to platoon with with Murton in LF and something like trading for Baldelli or signing Lofton along with Pagan in CF.

 

Ward is the quinessential PH off the bench.

 

Piniella won't go strict lefty/righty either and then go with a 11-man pitching staff...

 

Opening day: SP Zambrano-Lilly-Hill-Marquis (who will surprise because of mechanic correction over the winter) RP: Howry-Eyre-Cotts-Novoa-Miller-Wood-Wuertz (with Prior going on the 15-day and called up in April).

 

IF: D-Lee-Theriot-DeRosa-A-Ramirez C-Barrett-Blanco

OF: Church-Lofton-Soriano

Bench: Murton-Pagan-Patterson-Cedeno-Ward-

 

1. Barrett isn't gonna be traded.. wtf? and he'll play more than every other day

2. No way E-Patt is ready for this year

3. No way we get Chuch and Lofton

[BigbadB]

with rotation spots virtually guaranteed for lilly and marquis over the next 3-4 years, hill staking a solid claim to another, and the cubs hopefully working to extend zambrano, it's time to trade marshall, mateo, marmol, etc. if you just hold onto them to let them rot in AAA or in long relief, they're going to lose any value they have.

 

i mean, like seven guys are going to have to get hurt for someone like mateo to get starts.

 

It might take even more than 7 guys, since Gallagher, Veal and the Cubs #3 pick could possibly be one of the best players in this year's draft could surpass Marmol in 3-4 years.

 

This would be another perfect example of imcompetence of Cubs management to not work a deal for someone like Church.

 

Maybe Washington his holding out for someone to overpay? Well, we've overpaid for Soriano, DeRosa, Lilly and Marquis, why not overpay for someone who won't cost you much more than minimum salary at a position you are extremely weak and trading from a position of strength.

 

There is a lot of stuff we don't know about Jones (can he play CF everyday, does he want to be here anymore, is there a market for him), but he's currently the only person remotely capable of playing CF in 2007, assuming Pie needs another year of seasoning at AAA. Church can step right in, and it won't cost anyone currently on the 25 man roster.

 

It's a no-brainer. Instead, Hendry (or whoever is calling the shots right now) is going to let Pittsburgh or Philadelphia swoop in and get him, leaving the Cubs to spend big money on an aging vet like Lofton, who we aren't sure can even play everyday, anymore.

 

Overpay! Give them Marmol and Novoa. Give them Marmol and Ohman.

 

Church is the one guy that just about everyone at NSBB is on board with acquiring. He is young, cheap, provides good OBP, hits left handed and can play any outfield position. A team that produces next to no positional major league talent is getting one (like Murton) handed to them for next to no visible loss in talent and it's not getting done.

 

I know, I probably shouldn't jump the gun. It frustrates me that talks have broken down. I want to get really excited about an acquisition. DeRosa, Lilly and Marquis just isn't doing it for me.

 

I really like Marmol. But, Jacque Jones could likely net even more than a Carlos Marmol type prospect if traded. Just get it done, already!

[Jehrico]

Overpay! Give them Marmol and Novoa. Give them Marmol and Ohman.

 

Hell, give them Marmol and Izturis!

[Illini Iceman]

with rotation spots virtually guaranteed for lilly and marquis over the next 3-4 years, hill staking a solid claim to another, and the cubs hopefully working to extend zambrano, it's time to trade marshall, mateo, marmol, etc. if you just hold onto them to let them rot in AAA or in long relief, they're going to lose any value they have.

 

i mean, like seven guys are going to have to get hurt for someone like mateo to get starts.

 

It might take even more than 7 guys, since Gallagher, Veal and the Cubs #3 pick could possibly be one of the best players in this year's draft could surpass Marmol in 3-4 years.

 

This would be another perfect example of imcompetence of Cubs management to not work a deal for someone like Church.

 

Maybe Washington his holding out for someone to overpay? Well, we've overpaid for Soriano, DeRosa, Lilly and Marquis, why not overpay for someone who won't cost you much more than minimum salary at a position you are extremely weak and trading from a position of strength.

 

There is a lot of stuff we don't know about Jones (can he play CF everyday, does he want to be here anymore, is there a market for him), but he's currently the only person remotely capable of playing CF in 2007, assuming Pie needs another year of seasoning at AAA. Church can step right in, and it won't cost anyone currently on the 25 man roster.

 

It's a no-brainer. Instead, Hendry (or whoever is calling the shots right now) is going to let Pittsburgh or Philadelphia swoop in and get him, leaving the Cubs to spend big money on an aging vet like Lofton, who we aren't sure can even play everyday, anymore.

 

Overpay! Give them Marmol and Novoa. Give them Marmol and Ohman.

 

Church is the one guy that just about everyone at NSBB is on board with acquiring. He is young, cheap, provides good OBP, hits left handed and can play any outfield position. A team that produces next to no positional major league talent is getting one (like Murton) handed to them for next to no visible loss in talent and it's not getting done.

 

I know, I probably shouldn't jump the gun. It frustrates me that talks have broken down. I want to get really excited about an acquisition. DeRosa, Lilly and Marquis just isn't doing it for me.

 

I really like Marmol. But, Jacque Jones could likely net even more than a Carlos Marmol type prospect if traded. Just get it done, already!

 

Just out of curiosity, if this guy is such a great talent then why is he 28 years old with only 527 major league AB's?

 

I mean, I can see overpaying for a guy like Tejada who is a proven impact player, but how do I know that Church is not just this year's Brad Wilkerson? If I recall correctly a lot of people here were saying the Cubs should do whatever it took last year to get Wilkerson and now no one wants anything to do with him.

[tkenm356]

Just out of curiosity, if this guy is such a great talent then why is he 28 years old with only 527 major league AB's?

 

I mean, I can see overpaying for a guy like Tejada who is a proven impact maker, but how do I know that Church is not just this year's Brad Wilkerson?

 

To be blunt? Because Frank Robinson was off his rocker

[abuck1220]

unless they've got someone else on their radar, they might as well give them marshall AND marmol. if you get church, pretty much every position + every spot in the rotation is taken care of for the next three years...what's the point of holding on to those guys?