Grossman or Griese: Who's your starter?

[goonys evil twin]

I can't believe people still believe Orton is a viable option. He made as many mistakes as Grossman without even having the freedom of making mistakes.

 

Rookies are expected to make mistakes. Especially when transferring from a college shotgun offense to an NFL system which believes the shotgun is as much of a stain on society as a drunk nude at a Victorian funeral. 4th years, injured or no, are not supposed to be making those mistakes - especially when they've had more time to practice in a system and it is not 'new' to them that year. Now one might consider that the error of the coaches, as it was in the case of a certain Harrington who is now winning games in Miami. Although given what Lovie has done so far, I very sincerely doubt that is the case here.

 

I said it last year and will continue to say that Orton has a better shot at succeeding in the NFL than Rex *cough*McNown*cough* Grossman until proved either wrong or right. And right now, evidence seems to be on my side - Grossman has collapsed, while Orton was pretty consistent over the course of the year.

 

Do you believe the shotgun is going to fix things?

 

Orton had 3 games of less than 100 yards passing, completed a lower percentage of his passes than Rex and had a much lower rating than Rex. He had 5 games with a rating under 45.

[Northsider]

Ok, agreed, Orton's numbers did not look good last year. However,

 

- Moose and Gage constantly dropped the ball.

 

- His throws were, at least 95% of the time, directly in a line to his receiver, and were only missing overhead by a small margin. The coaches had specifically told him to overshoot rather than undershoot. This represents the fact that, as a rookie, he had not gotten the timing of the game down yet.

 

- Orton has an excuse for not having his timing quite down - beyond the normal hardship of young quarterbacks having to speed their games up, Orton further lost time in the pocket by having to move up from shotgun.

 

- VERY limited playbook. When your receivers have only two routes to run, it is very, very difficult for them to get open. Add in the fact that Gage is a terrible player, and you have 0 open receivers. The fact that Orton had a pass completion percentage as high as he did with Gage allowing the triple-coverage of Moose (and even occasionally handing the ball off to defenders), and I would say that Grossman did fairly well. Anyone else remember the first Carolina game, and the difference between having Bradley (who had a sore knee at the time, mind!) and Gage in? Orton's completion percentage skyrocketed, against a good defence, during the first half. Bradley not only was open himself, but forced the D to be honest against Moose - which, in turn, allowed Moose to get receptions.

 

Compare this to the first Grossman game that year: Berrian is put in and the playbook is opened for the 'Golden Child'. Grossman managed a whopping 59.7 passer rating over two games. He had an interception in each game.

 

The ball was taken out of Orton's hands, essentially, that season. His only job was to throw it to whoever he was told to throw it to. His receivers were not given the benefit of deception - it is not hard to defend against two routes - his receivers dropped the ball. His timing was affected slightly more than most rookies. And he still did better than the heralded Grossman did in the two games Grossman played that year. Three, if you count Grossman's game against the Panthers.

 

He put up 200 some yards against the Steelers in a snow that, according to all accounts, killed visibility, and managed to throw straight, accurate passes in the 40 mph wind of the 49ers game.

 

Once Orton has the timing of the game down, I have no doubt he will be a very good QB. He should also, in years to come, have a more reliable set of targets than he did in 2005.

 

Grossman, on the other hand, is given every available opportunity and has two games at least, against some very bad defences, that were worse than anything Orton did last year, despite having a larger playbook, better receiving corps, and being in the same situation, in terms of the timing of the game, as Tony Romo and Philip Rivers.

 

This is why I have hope for Orton, despite what the numbers say.

[Omar]

Gah. Its Monday and I'm already sick of this debate.

[Jon]

Grossman has had 6 good games, 1 non-game (@ Jets), and 5 bad games (1 of which he still led the winning TD drive). Orton, on the other hand, can't do half the things Grossman has done this year.

 

Rex has had two bad games in a row, yet some are making it out to look like he's had 4 or 5. If you factor in the PI/non-PI balls he threw against the Patriots, he didn't do all that poorly. And if the receivers and Turner had a good game, he probably wouldn't have been so bad. Heck, they barely threw the ball at all in the first half.

 

Rex has shown the ability to perform well on the road (see Giants, although winning on the road won't be an issue in the playoffs), he has shown the ability to perform pretty well in the post-season despite having to air it out and play catch-up (see Carolina), and he's shown the ability to be flatout dominant.

 

I really can't say the same about Orton.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Kyle Orton should not be an option for a playoff team.

[Chocolate Milk]

People still like Orton?

[goonys evil twin]

People still like Orton?

 

Shotgun!

[BigbadB]

I'm in the camp that Grossman should start next week with Griese ready to go if Grossman doesn't get out of his funk in a big hurry.

 

I don't think it's all Grossman's fault. The inability to give Grossman time to throw seems to have had an affect on Grossman that he seems to always here footsteps (whether they are there or not) when he drops back in the pocket. Some of his dump passes to the backfield receivers have been downright pathetic.

 

He's got a great receiver corps to throw to. He needs to find these guys and often. That's what he was doing early in the season and there's no reason he shouldn't be doing that now. Especially with Bradley now in the mix.

[brinoch]

Grossman.

 

A large part of the problem has been the lack of time for Grossman to throw, and in such situations, his inability to find an open receiver. I would probably design some roll-outs, slants, and screens to punish the defense for blitzing and committing to stopping the rush (I'm looking at you Turner). Additionally, Rex needs to check down to his secondary receivers quicker and take what the defense is giving him.

[Soul]

I'm surprised Grossman still has so much support.

 

I voted for him too. One more start----he's really under the gun now with Griese getting some snaps in practice. Let's see if he responds, otherwise <*yank*>

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Whatever happened to the "How Sexy is Rexy" poll?

[CuseCubFan69]

I was going to say an old Bear QB that was good but I really couldn't even think of one. I didn't realize how poor they have been through the years.

[Andy]

I was going to say an old Bear QB that was good but I really couldn't even think of one. I didn't realize how poor they have been through the years.

Sid Luckman

[goonys evil twin]

Whatever happened to the "How Sexy is Rexy" poll?

 

He got smacked with the ugly stick.

[Derwood]

bring back Eric Kramer! (Erik?)

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Yay Rexy!!

[Flames24Rulz]

People still like Orton?

 

START ORTON

 

Haven't seen the beard for a while. Has he ever shaved that thing?