Pujols: MVPs should be from playoff teams

[TruffleShuffle]

This has always been a topic for discussion because the sportswriters have different opinions on what the MVP stands for. Some view it as the best player in the league while others view it as the most valuable person to a team. I think they should limit the MVP to the 1st & 2nd place teams in each division and then have a "Player of the Year" award open to all players. Using the Cubs as an example, Banks won the MVP in 1958 and 1959 while the Cubs were in last place.

 

Regardless, the Giants won 91 games that year, missing the playoffs by just one game. Clearly without Bonds, they would've been nowhere near the playoffs.

 

Also, were five runs from leading the NL in runs scored - despite having all of TWO regulars aside from Bonds who had an OPS+ above 100 that year. He carried that team.

[Faceman]

Bonds 2004 VORP: 142 (!)

Pujols 2004 VORP: 103

 

 

We could go on an on, but it's really just belaboring the obvious.

 

why would 2004 VORP matter?

 

EDIT: your walks and games totals are 2004 also. . . just noticed.

Edited November 30, 2006 by Faceman

[Faceman]

This has always been a topic for discussion because the sportswriters have different opinions on what the MVP stands for. Some view it as the best player in the league while others view it as the most valuable person to a team. I think they should limit the MVP to the 1st & 2nd place teams in each division and then have a "Player of the Year" award open to all players. Using the Cubs as an example, Banks won the MVP in 1958 and 1959 while the Cubs were in last place.

 

Regardless, the Giants won 91 games that year, missing the playoffs by just one game. Clearly without Bonds, they would've been nowhere near the playoffs.

 

Also, were five runs from leading the NL in runs scored - despite having all of TWO regulars aside from Bonds who had an OPS+ above 100 that year. He carried that team.

 

Well, with a lineup of Utley, Burrell, and 2/3 Abreu, wouldn't Howard have had a better lineup than the Cards lineup? The Cards lineup was very weak without AP. Names like Edmonds and Rolen yes, but they are shells of their former selves.

 

So carrying the team seems to go year to year also.

[TruffleShuffle]

Bonds 2004 VORP: 142 (!)

Pujols 2004 VORP: 103

 

 

We could go on an on, but it's really just belaboring the obvious.

 

why would 2004 VORP matter?

 

ah, didn't realize we were talking about 2003. Well, your argument holds more water, but Bonds did have a higher VORP in 2003 despite playing about 25 fewer games. He certainly was a better player that year. Pujols created slightly more runs; Bonds had more RC/27. I'd guess that in a lot of people's minds, it was pretty close, but the Giants' 100 wins and the Cardinals' third place finish in the NL Central were the deciding factors.

[TruffleShuffle]

This has always been a topic for discussion because the sportswriters have different opinions on what the MVP stands for. Some view it as the best player in the league while others view it as the most valuable person to a team. I think they should limit the MVP to the 1st & 2nd place teams in each division and then have a "Player of the Year" award open to all players. Using the Cubs as an example, Banks won the MVP in 1958 and 1959 while the Cubs were in last place.

 

Regardless, the Giants won 91 games that year, missing the playoffs by just one game. Clearly without Bonds, they would've been nowhere near the playoffs.

 

Also, were five runs from leading the NL in runs scored - despite having all of TWO regulars aside from Bonds who had an OPS+ above 100 that year. He carried that team.

 

Well, with a lineup of Utley, Burrell, and 2/3 Abreu, wouldn't Howard have had a better lineup than the Cards lineup? The Cards lineup was very weak without AP. Names like Edmonds and Rolen yes, but they are shells of their former selves.

 

Rolen's career average: 285/375/515/890

Rolen in 2006: 296/369/518/887

 

 

Pretty bad year for him.

[TruffleShuffle]

Well, with a lineup of Utley, Burrell, and 2/3 Abreu, wouldn't Howard have had a better lineup than the Cards lineup?

 

Yes, he did have a better lineup than the one surrounding Pujols - hence the reason the Phillies led the league in runs and scored 84 runs more than the Cards, who were 6th in the league. The Cards made the playoffs instead of the Phillies because of (a) better pitching and (b) having the good fortune to play in a terrible division.

[Faceman]

Howard had a great year. No argument. Always a question of what's most "valuable" I suppose. .

 

In other news. . . this article suggests Pujols words were misinterpreted. . . . . doesn't really matter as his head has been growing since that homer off Lidge. . but here it is

 

http://www.riverfronttimes.com/blogs/?p=97

 

An excerpt:

 

Given, Pujols’ logic seems flawed, especially when you consider that Howard’s team won two more games than the Cardinals during the regular season.

 

But anybody out there read Spanish?

 

The Dominican Republic’s Spanish-language newspapers, which also covered the press conference in Santo Domingo yesterday that gave rise to the stories, offered a more nuanced take on Pujols’ remarks. (Forgive the rough translations.)

 

In Listín Diario, a story by Pedro G. Briceño was headlined “Pujols cree se merecía MVP; dice tuvo los mejores números”: Pujols believes he deserved the MVP; he says he had the best numbers.

 

Translated quote: “I was a little hurt because I think I deserved the award, considering I had better numbers than Howard, but these things happen.”

 

Translated quote: “A player who doesn’t help his team make the playoffs isn’t the MVP. That’s what I think, but, sadly, I don’t vote.”

 

Under a headline that translates to “Pujols said he deserved the MVP more than Ryan Howard,” Juan Mercado of El Dia wrote essentially the same thing — that the Cardinals first baseman felt his numbers were better and that no player who failed to lead his team to the postseason should be named MVP. “Eso es lo que yo pienso, pero yo no voto,” Pujols added: That’s what I think, but I don’t vote.

 

At first it hurt that he didn’t win, Pujols admitted. “But I won the MVP in 2005 and said I’d trade it for a World Series ring, and that’s what happened this year.”

 

José Caceres of Hoy posted two short pieces, one of which was headlined “Confiesa se puso triste por no ganar Más Valioso”: [Pujols] confesses he was hurt that he didn’t win the MVP. Caceres has Pujols saying: “Yo puse los números suficientes para ser por segundo año el más valioso, pero son los periodistas que votan y no tengo eso bajo control”: I put up good enough numbers to be MVP again, but it’s the baseball writers who vote and it’s not within my power.

 

That said, Pujols added, the past is the past, and his present goal is to win another World Series title for Cardinals fans.

[wolf stansson]

Are we really going to make this non-issue into a huge thread?

 

Maybe the questions were leading and maybe out of context, but if he is too dumb to realize that saying that Ryan Howard didn't deserve the MVP would lead to some bad press than thats his fault.

 

Here are the two options as I see them.

 

1 - Dick move.

2 - Misunderstood and dumb.

 

 

Both aren't good.

[cheapseats]

Pujols was the best player in the NL this year (and not last year :twisted: ), and he should have won the award. According to BP's stats, his fielding was worth about 3 wins (!) more than Howard's.

 

The idea that the award should go to a guy on a playoff team or a winning team is ridiculous and is just one more reason not to listen to the Dan Patricks of this world.

[DanzaSlap]

To kinda defend Pujols (even though this is a dick move), the competitive fire that makes him arguably the best hitter in the game is the same fire that, well, makes him kind of a prick. I mean, Jordan was kinda the same way -- a total ass because he knew that he was the best. In his mind, no one was better than him, and he deserved the MVP every year (which he probably did). Pujols has that same mindset, that he is the best and should be the MVP every year.

 

If he's such a fearless hitter because he's an ass, then I say, continue being an ass, Albert. Since he's won a ring for my team, I'm really not able to criticize him, anyway.

[wolf stansson]

If he's such a fearless hitter because he's an ass, then I say, continue being an ass, Albert. Since he's won a ring for my team, I'm really not able to criticize him, anyway.

I'll let someone else take this one.

[UK1679666180]

To kinda defend Pujols (even though this is a dick move), the competitive fire that makes him arguably the best hitter in the game is the same fire that, well, makes him kind of a prick. I mean, Jordan was kinda the same way -- a total ass because he knew that he was the best. In his mind, no one was better than him, and he deserved the MVP every year (which he probably did). Pujols has that same mindset, that he is the best and should be the MVP every year.

 

If he's such a fearless hitter because he's an ass, then I say, continue being an ass, Albert. Since he's won a ring for my team, I'm really not able to criticize him, anyway.

 

When did Jordan ever complain about anything like this?

 

Jordan spoke thru his actions, I never recall Jordan ever doing anything like this, Jordan got lit up by some bad player on the Bullets for about 36 points in the early 90s and MJ torched him the next time they played.

 

Jordan was only a prick to his teammates and later on when he became an exec. with the Wizards. Jordan had a good relationship w/the media as well, until they became intrusive during the gambling allegations as well as his father's passing.

 

Jordan would never go public by saying he should've won an award, if he was frustrated by him, he would take it out on them the next year.

[Andy]

Jordan was openly and blatantly robbed of MVPs in the 1993 (Barkley) and 1997 (Malone) seasons under the little-known "let's vote for someone else because we're sick of Jordan winning" reasoning. I don't think he ever complained. Then again, he also got to prove that the voters were wrong in both cases by beating the other guy in the Finals.

[E.J.]

I miss Jordan. NBA hasn't been the same w/o him.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I miss Jordan. NBA hasn't been the same w/o him.

 

It hasn't. I miss when one of the teams I root for is dominating.

[soccer10k]

What makes me laugh is the idea that Pujols, in any way, "led his team to the playoffs" in the first place. Pujols, much like Derrek Lee in 2005, led his team to mediocrity, and the Cubs, Pirates, Brewers, Reds, and Astros allowed them into the playoffs by sucking so bad. Pujols had a fantastic year on an 83 win team. Derrek Lee had a fantastic year on a 78 win team, and didn't win the award. There's very little difference.

 

Agreed. Give the MVP to the rest of the NL Central.

[wolf stansson]

Agreed. Give the MVP to the rest of the NL Central.

Or Ryan Howard can keep it.

[soccer10k]

Agreed. Give the MVP to the rest of the NL Central.

Or Ryan Howard can keep it.

 

I guess I should have clarified. I meant each Pujols vote should go to the NL Central.

[wolf stansson]

Agreed. Give the MVP to the rest of the NL Central.

Or Ryan Howard can keep it.

 

I guess I should have clarified. I meant each Pujols vote should go to the NL Central.

I know. I'm tired of all this. It doesn't matter, and there are a lot of Cardinals fans out there who are actually upset. It is tiresome.

[beer_man]

By Bob Nightengale, USA TODAY

 

St. Louis Cardinals slugger Albert Pujols, saying he was sick to his stomach the way he was portrayed in a recent interview in the Dominican Republic, plans to apologize to National League MVP winner Ryan Howard.

 

"I feel so bad because I love Ryan Howard," Pujols told USA TODAY. "I never said he didn't deserve the MVP. He is deserving of that award. He earned it. That's why he got it. I'm not trying to defend myself; I just want to tell him that I'm sorry for all of this because he earned the MVP. The last thing I want to do is spoil this for him."

 

Pujols was quoted last week in a news conference organized by the Dominican Republic's sports ministry as saying, "I see it this way: Someone who doesn't take his team to the playoffs doesn't deserve to win the MVP."

 

Pujols said his comments were misinterpreted. "The way that came out hurt me big time," Pujols said. "I'm very angry about that."

 

 

I am sure this will not be discussed as much as the original article...

[Chris]

Not sure how Albert's original quote could be misinterpreted.

[ConstableRabbit]

Not sure how Albert's original quote could be misinterpreted.

 

Ah, the Ozzie defense

[treebird]

i don't understand why albert bothered to come out and try to fix things if he wasn't going to make the effort to lie about what he originally said.