Pete Rose

[sherwood921]

I'm sure this has been discussed here, but I'm writing a paper on it...so it's fresh on my mind...

 

Should Pete Rose be in the Hall of Fame?

[Yeti]

F#@! YES!

 

and if you disagree, you cant ever even tell me that Sosa and Bonds belong

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think a compromise should be reached where Pete can be enshrined but where he can't work in baseball.

 

I don't think that ever will happen, but to me that's the most logical solution.

[NCCubFan]

Yes, but if Rose is eligible Joe Jackson needs to be as well.

[soccer10k]

Yes he should be in the HOF.

[Balsa]

Yes, but without any ceremony and in a separate "Those who Disgraced the Game" corner where Bonds and McGuire will go.

[ConstableRabbit]

I mean, numbers-wise, and as a fan, I think he should.

 

But I'm taking this legally.

 

This is my understanding (and I very well may be wrong):

 

The rule says, 'if you bet on baseball, you cannot be in the hall of fame'

Pete Rose bet on baseball.

 

I dont see where there is any room for debate here.

 

Is this incorrect?

 

Either way, what does it matter to anyone but Rose himself? The numbers speak for themselves. If you're a baseball fan, even 50 years from now, you'll know about Pete Rose and how talented he was on the field as well as his shortcomings off of it, just like we know all about Joe Jackson.

[sunnydoo]

F#@! YES!

 

and if you disagree, you cant ever even tell me that Sosa and Bonds belong

 

I disagree, and Sosa, Bonds, and McGwire should all be DQ'd as well.

 

You have to have respect for yourself and the game and all 4 have shown a consistent lack of it over there baseball lives imo.

[soccer10k]

F#@! YES!

 

and if you disagree, you cant ever even tell me that Sosa and Bonds belong

 

I disagree, and Sosa, Bonds, and McGwire should all be DQ'd as well.

 

You have to have respect for yourself and the game and all 4 have shown a consistent lack of it over there baseball lives imo.

 

You can't ban a player for being accused of doing something. Palmeiro would be one thing because he tested positive. But the three you mentioned are fine especially Sosa. I don't like it, but they are because they haven't been caught (re: tested positive).

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I think a better question is "should there even be a hall of fame?"

[Electron Blue]

I think a better question is "should there even be a hall of fame?"

 

I think you're on the right track, but still missing something. OF COURSE there should be a museum where the great players/events/memories of the game are celebrated. But is a "hall of fame," as it currently exists -- with all of its rules and formality -- necessary? No, it's really not, but like College Football's BCS proves: half the fun in talking about sports are debating issues like this one.

[goonys evil twin]

But is a "hall of fame," as it currently exists -- with all of its rules and formality -- necessary? No, it's really not, but like College Football's BCS proves: half the fun in talking about sports are debating issues like this one.

 

I don't think it's fun at all. I realize that for some it's fun, but I really don't care about HOF, MVPs, gold gloves, etc. I like to see my team win, and I like to see good games. I enjoy talking about personel moves in the offseason, but the stuff related to how writers vote is meaningless to me.

[OleMissCub]

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

 

What he did as a manager should NOT affect what he did as a player.

[rocket]

F#@! YES!

 

and if you disagree, you cant ever even tell me that Sosa and Bonds belong

 

yes i can. the rule CLEARLY states that if you bet on baseball, you are banned for life. no room for interpretation. he admittedly bet on baseball, therefore he's banned for life, therefore no hall of fame.

 

sosa is a suspected steroid user. there's never been any proof. as far as the corked bat, he served the exact punishment that baseball rules laid out. he's still very eligible for the hall of fame, and he deserves to get in.

 

bonds especially deserves to get in. pete rose does not.

[OleMissCub]

 

bonds especially deserves to get in. pete rose does not.

 

If you are talking about "deserving" to get in. Look at Rose's numbers:

 

#1 in hits: 4,256

#1 in AB: 14,053

#2 in 2B: 746

#5 in runs: 2,165

#12 in BB: 1,566

 

He deserves to go into the hall as a PLAYER. Ban him from baseball, ban him from coaching, whatever. But what he did later in life shouldn't result in the expulsion of his legacy as a player.

[sweetpeteman]

It does not matter what Major League Baseball says on the issue, as the Baseball Hall of Fame is a seperate institute.

 

However, as long as classy players who deserve to be in are left out, the jerkbag that is Pete Rose can stay out too.

[UK1679666180]

He should be inducted into the HoF for what he did as a player, he should not be allowed back into baseball for how he gambled on the game.

[Guest]

What did Pete Rose do that Juan Pierre hasn't done other than play for a really, really, really long time?

[imb]

What did Pete Rose do that Juan Pierre hasn't done other than play for a really, really, really long time?

 

Do you mean besides the much higher ops in a much tougher hitters era? Besides all the top 10 MVP finishes and all-star games?

[sunnydoo]

You can't ban a player for being accused of doing something. Palmeiro would be one thing because he tested positive. But the three you mentioned are fine especially Sosa. I don't like it, but they are because they haven't been caught (re: tested positive).

 

Actually, you can.

 

There are 2 character clauses in fact that can preclude baseball players from going into the Hall of Fame.

 

McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds should be nullified just on the basis of their Congressional testimonials alone. And Bonds shouldnt even be allowed on the ballot until the Balco mess is cleaned up totally. At the progression through the court system and with the witnesses being uncooperative, it may take another 20 years at this pace.

 

Shockingly, there is a whole world outside the U.S. where you have to prove your innocence. Even in this country, provisions under the Patriot Act now require you to do the same thing.

 

I just think the players should step up and stop hiding. Thats why i hate them and Rose. Admit what you did in the first place, take responsibility for your actions, and take your punishment like a man. Maybe you find redemption and maybe you dont. But its better in the long run for everyone if you make your own peace.

[soccer10k]

You can't ban a player for being accused of doing something. Palmeiro would be one thing because he tested positive. But the three you mentioned are fine especially Sosa. I don't like it, but they are because they haven't been caught (re: tested positive).

 

Actually, you can.

 

There are 2 character clauses in fact that can preclude baseball players from going into the Hall of Fame.

 

McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds should be nullified just on the basis of their Congressional testimonials alone. And Bonds shouldnt even be allowed on the ballot until the Balco mess is cleaned up totally. At the progression through the court system and with the witnesses being uncooperative, it may take another 20 years at this pace.

 

Shockingly, there is a whole world outside the U.S. where you have to prove your innocence. Even in this country, provisions under the Patriot Act now require you to do the same thing.

 

I just think the players should step up and stop hiding. Thats why i hate them and Rose. Admit what you did in the first place, take responsibility for your actions, and take your punishment like a man. Maybe you find redemption and maybe you dont. But its better in the long run for everyone if you make your own peace.

 

Not that I don't believe you, because I don't know that much about the HOF, but can you either quote the clauses or post a link where I can read them? It would be greatly appreciated.

[sunnydoo]

Not that I don't believe you, because I don't know that much about the HOF, but can you either quote the clauses or post a link where I can read them? It would be greatly appreciated.

 

Not a problem... http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/rules.htm

 

Specifically look at section 5 on voting.

 

Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played

[Guest]

What did Pete Rose do that Juan Pierre hasn't done other than play for a really, really, really long time?

 

Do you mean besides the much higher ops in a much tougher hitters era? Besides all the top 10 MVP finishes and all-star games?

The MVP finishes don't really tell me a whole lot other than the fact that the media absolutely loved the guy for his "hustleness". He did hit for a little more power than Pierre, but also didn't have any speed. And it's not like he was a huge powerhouse, either. He was an average defender at multiple positions, but didn't play any of the real skill positions notably well.

 

Basically, he's famous for getting a lot of singles per year (like Pierre), being durable (like Pierre) and for playing a really, really, really long time. Oh yeah, and hustling and playing the game "right". Other than gambling on it, of course. And putting himself into a lineup at the detriment to the team just so he could break a record. But yeah, he did things the "right" way.

[imb]

What did Pete Rose do that Juan Pierre hasn't done other than play for a really, really, really long time?

 

Do you mean besides the much higher ops in a much tougher hitters era? Besides all the top 10 MVP finishes and all-star games?

The MVP finishes don't really tell me a whole lot other than the fact that the media absolutely loved the guy for his "hustleness". He did hit for a little more power than Pierre, but also didn't have any speed. And it's not like he was a huge powerhouse, either. He was an average defender at multiple positions, but didn't play any of the real skill positions notably well.

 

Basically, he's famous for getting a lot of singles per year (like Pierre), being durable (like Pierre) and for playing a really, really, really long time. Oh yeah, and hustling and playing the game "right". Other than gambling on it, of course. And putting himself into a lineup at the detriment to the team just so he could break a record. But yeah, he did things the "right" way.

 

Besides hitting for more power, he also walked much more. His career on base percentage was .375. I have no idea how to find the league average OBP during his career, but I imagine it was much, much lower. He was on base almost 6,000 times in his career.

 

If Pierre played 24 seasons and had a .375 OBP for career and finished with 4257 hits, I think you would have to put him in the hall.

[Chocolate Milk]

Pete Rose certianly played for a long time. Lifetime OPS+ of 118 isn't very stellar though.

 

In conclusion, put him in or don't. I don't really care at all.