Cubs sign Soriano

[shnsajax]

I'm still drunk on liquor and excitement from the Cowboys beating the Colts to completely comprehend this.

 

I'm glad we signed Soriano. I'd have preferred Drew, but we needed a bat and we now have one.

 

But [expletive] that's a huge deal. It's going to be an albatross in later years....but wow!

 

Hendry is likely looking at it this way.

 

1. If Soriano helps us win, it's worth it.

2. If we don't win with Soriano, he won't be around to have to worry about that contract.

 

Well, I guess Soriano got Beltran money and then some!

 

[expletive]...

 

And how about dem Cowboys! Woo!

 

I gotta take a piss, this excitement is too much.

 

I don't think the contract will live its full length, but way to early to tell. I do think the Cubs were trying to send a message as an organization.

 

Cowboys looked solid, and Romo is great. Hopefully we will see a Bears-Cowboys matchup for the NFC Championship in January. Unfortuanatly that will be in Chicago should it happen.

[Illini Iceman]

I have a hard time being too critical of this signing without knowing what our payroll will be. If it is $130M+ there will be tons of money to upgrade CF, and add 2 high quality starters. If it is 105 we are in a financial bind at the moment.

 

Soriano is a huge improvment to the Cubs offense. I value OBP, but I also value SLG. Soriano provides a huge boost in the slugging department and gives you a guy you can hit 80+ extra base hits a year. I think they overpaid by quite a bit, but if thats what it takes to improve the Cubs, thats what it takes. Lots of people were critical of Detroit for overpaying Pudge, Kenny Rogers, and Maggs, and they certainly did, but without those guys they aren't playing for the World Series.

 

I like that this move should make sure that Jones is not on the team Opening Day. I like that we have 3 guys with a great chance at 40 HR's on the team for the next 4+ years. I like that we have a guy who can steal 40 bases so Hendry doesn't do something stupid like give Pierre 10M a year because we need someone who can create a run. I like that the Cubs spent big money to sign the guy considered the top free agent in MLB. Wheteher he deserved that title or not, it shows a change in philospohy from ownership. This hasn't happened before. It could be because they are selling the team, but regardless, this is a first.

 

I agree - 98 years of being patient and not wanting to sell out the future for the present have not worked out too well. McDonough and Hendry are going for broke and I say it's about damn time. Anyhow, the way salaries are escalating $17M may be a utility man's contract in 2014.

[jjgman21]

Im not sure what KC used for Pie's numbers if by chance Drew did go down for 40 or how many ever games, but I'm guessing he used MLE. KC, can you expound?

 

averaged his 2005 MLE EqA, 2006 MLE EqA and 2007 PECOTA projection (last years pecotas) and those figures were {.265,.244,.257} respectively, which average to .255 which was basically what we got from Pierre last season. (Actually it's higher but I didn't bother saying that)

 

I think thats a wonderful job of using all the information that is available...I knew you wouldn't let me down when I made that claim!

 

never mind that his numbers were not what I was referring to. see page 56.

[nilodnayr]

Ok, I just got back from the Cowboys game. (Go Cowboys!) This thread is 39 pages long. Cliff Notes Please!

 

Pending a physical Soriano is a Cub. 8 years for 136 looks to be the maximum years/money. Rumors around that the last 2-3 years might be option years (no idea whose) and that approx 90 mil is guaranteed.

 

Everybody who doesn't like the signing is negative and Jim Hendry just can't get the props he deserves.

 

Everybody who does like the signing doesn't understand statistics or finances and needs 10 more years of school.

 

I'm bitter and sarcastic (for the last few comments at least)

 

Perfect!!!

[Butterscup1679666578]

Assuming we still are looking for a CF, Boston could move Coco Crisp for Izturis and Eyre, and I'd take that deal. I'm also assuming Hendry will also look to deal for a starter. Given the lack of quantity and quality in the FA market, Hendry seems to have done a halfway decent job of maximizing the cards in his hand. Of the 4 best offensive FA's, we retained one and brought a second in. 2/4 is not half bad.

 

I'm just wondering what the infatuation with Crisp is? He doesn't hit for average, doesn't get on base all that often, has a low SLG%, and doesn't seem like he'd be all that beneficial to the team. I'd rather sign Roberts and trade Izturis and Eyre for a SP instead.

 

I think the big thing people who want Crisp believe is that he had injury issues(hand, maybe?) that suppressed his numbers last year. His previous two years(.297/.344/.446 & .300/.345/.465) look much better, plus he's now entering his prime years.

 

I did not realize he was only 27, but is his hand injury anything that could linger? His 04 and 05 were solid, but where would he bat in the lineup? 7th? I'd still rather have Roberts for CF and hopefully that'd bump Soriano out of the leadoff spot.

[WrigleyField 22]

I agree - 98 years of being patient and not wanting to sell out the future for the present have not worked out too well. McDonough and Hendry are going for broke and I say it's about damn time. Anyhow, the way salaries are escalating $17M may be a utility man's contract in 2014.

 

I don't think salaries will escalate all that much. Did all those big contracts that were given out in the early millenium change baseball's salaries? No, people regretted them and they dropped (before just rising now)

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

So, the concensus is that Jones is moving to CF and Soriano will play RF?

 

Does anyone see a scenario where Jones is traded and Hendry brings back Pierre. Jimbo is throwing money around like it's beads and dubloons on Mardi Gras and all these FA have to do is show their [expletive].

[jjgman21]

I know (well, I've heard) that baseball is flush with cash, but anyone else see the scouting and player development budget slashed to zero and money for draft pick signings drying up after this offseason?

[Bull]

the problem with the suggestion of trading Izturis is, again, viewing things in a vacuum. you sign Lugo, everyone knows you are desperate to dump Izturis. Boston and Toronto could get by with what they had and just wait for him to be released if they want him and the Cubs would be paying Izturis to play for a different team. other than that, I don't know of a market for him (why would Cleveland want Izturis?)

 

Sign Lugo to "play CF". Then trade Izturis and move Lugo to short.

[Andy]

I like most of the points that are being made in this thread, and USSoccer's was the finest baseball post that I've probably ever read on this site.

 

Put me also in jjgman and Constable's "hate the money but like the signing" group as well.

[CubColtPacer]

So, the concensus is that Jones is moving to CF and Soriano will play RF?

 

Does anyone see a scenario where Jones is traded and Hendry brings back Pierre. Jimbo is throwing money around like it's beads and dubloons on Mardi Gras and all these FA have to do is show their Rusch.

 

I don't see a scenario where Pierre comes back, but I do see a scenario where Jones is traded. One thing they forgot to mention to you is that the Cubs stated next priority is starting pitching-that's what they will focus on next, and I think Pierre will probably sign during that time.

[jjgman21]

Now thats just ridiculous. I realize you like Drew, but lets try dealing in reality.

 

It's not ridiculous.

 

Pierre to Soriano for 526 outs = + 30 runs

Pierre to JD Drew for (120/162)*526 outs = + 37 runs

 

Sure, there is a margin for error. Like some of those displaced outs from Drew having a higher OBP going to scrubs like Derrek Lee and Aramis Ramirez. Regardless, at the worst Drew for 120 games is the same as Soriano for 162 games.

 

And the assumption of Pie = Pierre

 

what numbers are you using? last year? career? three year? which ever makes your point stronger?

 

??

[Vinestal]

I know (well, I've heard) that baseball is flush with cash, but anyone else see the scouting and player development budget slashed to zero and money for draft pick signings drying up after this offseason?

 

Money for signing draft picks is all going to be slotted now isnt it? At least thats what I remember hearing from the new colective bargaining agreement. I couldnt get anyone to explain what that meant, but I thought it meant that each round has a set amount of money you spend on a player selected in that round and then you cant go over that amount.

 

Im on cold meds and much of what I just said may not make any sense lol ...*sigh* been a long day

[Rob]

So, the concensus is that Jones is moving to CF and Soriano will play RF?

 

Does anyone see a scenario where Jones is traded and Hendry brings back Pierre. Jimbo is throwing money around like it's beads and dubloons on Mardi Gras and all these FA have to do is show their Rusch.

 

Personally, I don't think we'll ever see Jones in CF. But Lou said he's playing Soriano in a corner outfield spot. Couple that with Bruce Miles' assertation that Soriano would be in right, Murton is "safe" and Jones moves to CF... it's pretty much given that Soriano is in right now.

 

I think Jones will be moved, maybe as soon as tomorrow morning. But with Lou saying he wants Soriano in the leadoff spot, I don't see us bringing back Pierre or going after GM Jr. anymore.

[jjgman21]

I like most of the points that are being made in this thread, and USSoccer's was the finest baseball post that I've probably ever read on this site.

 

Put me also in jjgman and Constable's "hate the money but like the signing" group as well.

 

SOMEONE GOT MY SCREEN NAME RIGHT!!!!

[Guest]

Ok, I just got back from the Cowboys game. (Go Cowboys!) This thread is 39 pages long. Cliff Notes Please!

 

Pending a physical Soriano is a Cub. 8 years for 136 looks to be the maximum years/money. Rumors around that the last 2-3 years might be option years (no idea whose) and that approx 90 mil is guaranteed.

 

Everybody who doesn't like the signing is negative and Jim Hendry just can't get the props he deserves.

 

Everybody who does like the signing doesn't understand statistics or finances and needs 10 more years of school.

 

I'm bitter and sarcastic (for the last few comments at least)

 

what about those of us who don't like the terms but like the signing anyway?

 

Throw me into that catagory as well.

You and I should agree to disagree once in a while.

[Andy]

I like most of the points that are being made in this thread, and USSoccer's was the finest baseball post that I've probably ever read on this site.

 

Put me also in jjgman and Constable's "hate the money but like the signing" group as well.

 

SOMEONE GOT MY SCREEN NAME RIGHT!!!!

I got used to quoting your posts in political threads. :wink:

[XZero771679666304]

I like most of the points that are being made in this thread, and USSoccer's was the finest baseball post that I've probably ever read on this site.

 

Put me also in jjgman and Constable's "hate the money but like the signing" group as well.

 

Me too. I ham happy to have Soriano, but those years scare me. If 2-3 of them are team/mutual options, that will mitigate things significantly.

[jjgman21]

the problem with the suggestion of trading Izturis is, again, viewing things in a vacuum. you sign Lugo, everyone knows you are desperate to dump Izturis. Boston and Toronto could get by with what they had and just wait for him to be released if they want him and the Cubs would be paying Izturis to play for a different team. other than that, I don't know of a market for him (why would Cleveland want Izturis?)

 

Sign Lugo to "play CF". Then trade Izturis and move Lugo to short.

 

a $4.5M bluff? not when at least one of the other players has a much bigger stack than you.

[oldcubsfan]

So, the concensus is that Jones is moving to CF and Soriano will play RF?

 

Does anyone see a scenario where Jones is traded and Hendry brings back Pierre. Jimbo is throwing money around like it's beads and dubloons on Mardi Gras and all these FA have to do is show their Rusch.

 

I can't see Jones in CF. I can see Soriano in LF or Cf. Trading Jones and leaving Murton makes no sense, no LH bat in the lineup. Murton probably has more trade value for pitching than Jones does.

[nilodnayr]

no worries on the quote issue, they are long behind us

 

I disagree, the critics (me, KC, TT, Jon, Navin, and Rob) are using all the information taht is available to make our claim. We do not propose to know everything or be able to predict what will happen in the future.

 

you may have wanted to hold onto that before KC's posts about Pie.

 

Im not sure what KC used for Pie's numbers if by chance Drew did go down for 40 or how many ever games, but I'm guessing he used MLE. KC, can you expound?

 

I wasn't talking about the numbers. I was talking about his assertion that 40 games in the majors before he is ready won't hurt his development.

 

That is pure speculation on both parts. And I think you agreed that because it would be 40 continuous games rather than riding the pine for a bunch of time it probably wouldnt be too bad. In fact many players claim that it really helps them to have a cup of coffee not only to see major league pitchers but to really understand the schedule, lifestyle, media, and all other intangible differences between a minor leaguer and major league life.

[Soul]

I like most of the points that are being made in this thread, and USSoccer's was the finest baseball post that I've probably ever read on this site.

 

Put me also in jjgman and Constable's "hate the money but like the signing" group as well.

 

Me too. I ham happy to have Soriano, but those years scare me. If 2-3 of them are team/mutual options, that will mitigate things significantly.

 

If it's 5/85 guaranteed, I don't see how it could be called a terrible signing. Soriano was always going to cost someone big money, it's just a matter of whether Jimbo would show the stones (for once) and pony up the really big cash for the really big fish.

 

This time, he did.

[ChiCubsFan]

So, the concensus is that Jones is moving to CF and Soriano will play RF?

 

Does anyone see a scenario where Jones is traded and Hendry brings back Pierre. Jimbo is throwing money around like it's beads and dubloons on Mardi Gras and all these FA have to do is show their Rusch.

 

I can't see Jones in CF. I can see Soriano in LF or Cf. Trading Jones and leaving Murton makes no sense, no LH bat in the lineup. Murton probably has more trade value for pitching than Jones does.

 

We better not trade Murton. We need his cheap production in the lineup.

[nilodnayr]

I'm just wondering what the infatuation with Crisp is? He doesn't hit for average, doesn't get on base all that often, has a low SLG%, and doesn't seem like he'd be all that beneficial to the team. I'd rather sign Roberts and trade Izturis and Eyre for a SP instead.

 

because he was a .300 hitter in 2004 and 2005 and he had a finger injury in 2006 that made him suck. hes not great, but he's not terrible.

 

in a perfect world it would be trade eyre and izturis for coco and sign lugo forgetting about soriano.

 

again living in a vacuum.

 

No Boston outfielder goes anywhere until another outfielder is signed.

 

I think thats with the assumption that Drew signs with Boston, since we are probably now out of the running. However, word is that now the Angels will go after Drew since Sori is off the market.

[UK1679666180]

Ok, I just got back from the Cowboys game. (Go Cowboys!) This thread is 39 pages long. Cliff Notes Please!

 

Pending a physical Soriano is a Cub. 8 years for 136 looks to be the maximum years/money. Rumors around that the last 2-3 years might be option years (no idea whose) and that approx 90 mil is guaranteed.

 

Everybody who doesn't like the signing is negative and Jim Hendry just can't get the props he deserves.

 

Everybody who does like the signing doesn't understand statistics or finances and needs 10 more years of school.

 

I'm bitter and sarcastic (for the last few comments at least)

 

what about those of us who don't like the terms but like the signing anyway?

 

Throw me into that catagory as well.

You and I should agree to disagree once in a while.

 

Agreed.