Cubs sign Soriano

[rocket]

I don't think that is really the case. Most teams have a weak hitter at some point in the lineup. Barrett's plus abilities on offense help offset weak hitters at SS. Generally, I would say one bad hitter in the lineup, particularly a great defensive shortstop, can't be pointed to as the single problem with an offense.

 

Cubs shortstops hit .246/.275/.324 last season. Only the Royals had a lower OPS from their ss. Only FIVE teams had their SS produce an OPS under .690, much less under .600.

 

one player does not a lineup make.

 

World Series Champion's catchers in 2006 = .605 OPS

 

if the overall lineup is terrible then that one player is signficant.

[Neuby]

Paul sucks.

[E.J.]

Signing Drew now is a bad idea. We need the money for one of the Starters. Then we need to trade for one, of course.

 

Sign Meche/Lilly. Trade Jones's contract. Sign Drew. I don't think it's that impossible. Who knows, the payroll maybe be bigger than the 115-120 that we've been hearing.

 

if that's it the rotation is horrible at worst and very average at best, definately not a world series champion.

 

I don't think Z, Hill, Meche, Lilly/Westbrook, Prior/Miller with Marshall and Marmol possibly in there too is a horrible pitching staff.

 

as much as i'd like hill to succeed and think he will eventually, it's not a good idea to have him slated in the three spot after the ups and downs he's had. prior/miller can't be counted on exactly and even if you replace an injured prior/miller with marmol or marshall it's not that great.

 

the point being, there is a not so fine line between average and great. 2003 rotation was great, 2006 rotation was below average. i really think the cubs need to sign a schmidt or trade for something close to that to ensure anything pitching wise.

Or maybe we will catch a break and the real Mark Prior will show up again.

 

Doubt we're that lucky.

[ToupeeOnFire]

Goober thinks the Soriano signing reinforces the Cubs for sale rumors.

[baseball7897]

Paul sucks.

 

Agreed.

[Butterscup1679666578]

What about Igawa? Has there been any talk of the Cubs bidding on him?

[Shilzzz]

Signing Drew now is a bad idea. We need the money for one of the Starters. Then we need to trade for one, of course.

 

Sign Meche/Lilly. Trade Jones's contract. Sign Drew. I don't think it's that impossible. Who knows, the payroll maybe be bigger than the 115-120 that we've been hearing.

 

if that's it the rotation is horrible at worst and very average at best, definately not a world series champion.

 

I don't think Z, Hill, Meche, Lilly/Westbrook, Prior/Miller with Marshall and Marmol possibly in there too is a horrible pitching staff.

 

as much as i'd like hill to succeed and think he will eventually, it's not a good idea to have him slated in the three spot after the ups and downs he's had. prior/miller can't be counted on exactly and even if you replace an injured prior/miller with marmol or marshall it's not that great.

 

the point being, there is a not so fine line between average and great. 2003 rotation was great, 2006 rotation was below average. i really think the cubs need to sign a schmidt or trade for something close to that to ensure anything pitching wise.

Or maybe we will catch a break and the real Mark Prior will show up again.

 

that should be viewed as a very very very nice acquisition, not a given. it's been proven the last three years that we can not count on health, so the best way to go about it should be to sign another #1. if prior is healthy after that the cubs become unstoppable.

[Mephistopheles]

one player does not a lineup make.

 

World Series Champion's catchers in 2006 = .605 OPS

 

Cutting dead weight is a cheap alternative to spending money on a big bat and it's usually just as important. I can't believe you are arguing against this. Sure you can win with having a dead spot in the lineup, but it's a hell of a lot easier not having a dead spot in the lineup. Isn't that common sense?

 

Going from a piece of crap at SS to a slightly below average to average SS is going to add more runs to the Cubs as going from a slightly above average RFer in Jones to a Carlos Lee or whoever or whatever. Plus it's going to be a lot cheaper. It's a pretty simple concept.

[nilodnayr]

Paul sucks.

 

Did he say anything else?

[Sarcastic]

Signing Drew now is a bad idea. We need the money for one of the Starters. Then we need to trade for one, of course.

 

Sign Meche/Lilly. Trade Jones's contract. Sign Drew. I don't think it's that impossible. Who knows, the payroll maybe be bigger than the 115-120 that we've been hearing.

 

if that's it the rotation is horrible at worst and very average at best, definately not a world series champion.

 

I don't think Z, Hill, Meche, Lilly/Westbrook, Prior/Miller with Marshall and Marmol possibly in there too is a horrible pitching staff.

 

as much as i'd like hill to succeed and think he will eventually, it's not a good idea to have him slated in the three spot after the ups and downs he's had. prior/miller can't be counted on exactly and even if you replace an injured prior/miller with marmol or marshall it's not that great.

 

the point being, there is a not so fine line between average and great. 2003 rotation was great, 2006 rotation was below average. i really think the cubs need to sign a schmidt or trade for something close to that to ensure anything pitching wise.

Or maybe we will catch a break and the real Mark Prior will show up again.

 

Doubt we're that lucky.

 

Maybe not, but I think that Mark Prior having a comeback is the team's best hope for being contenders in 2007. Unless Hendry has a lot more money to build with than we thought, there is no way he can turn the team around that fast without some good luck, and the biggest lucky break we could get is having our injured #5 pitcher regain ace status. Without that, the team may be competitive, but they'll still be a long shot.

[Neuby]

Says he thinks the Trib dpesn't have a problem handing out these deals because 5 years from now they won't own the Cubs.

[A New Era]

Good God. I tried to read this whole thread. But I stopped at page 5. I swear some people would complain about ANYTHING!!

 

Point #1: We should shop smart, I don't like this signing. - The Tribune is finally PAYING OUT THE WAZOO to WIN and WIN now and you are complaining!!?

 

Point #2: He's gonna suck at 38, he sucks now - He hit 40 HR, 40 steals, 119 runs in 2006. He's got very good states when teams have let him lead off. Lou already stated he plans him for lead-off. He does NOT suck, and furthermore you guys were commenting on a RUMORED amoung when infact it is more like 6/90 with 2 option years.

 

I just can't beleive how many people in the first dozen pages I read were COMPLAINING about this. It just #*#*@*! boggles my mind. How can you not be happy about this? We get a couple above average pitchers and we are now the STRONGEST team in the NL Central by a large margin.

[jjgman21]

I don't think that is really the case. Most teams have a weak hitter at some point in the lineup. Barrett's plus abilities on offense help offset weak hitters at SS. Generally, I would say one bad hitter in the lineup, particularly a great defensive shortstop, can't be pointed to as the single problem with an offense.

 

Cubs shortstops hit .246/.275/.324 last season. Only the Royals had a lower OPS from their ss. Only FIVE teams had their SS produce an OPS under .690, much less under .600.

 

one player does not a lineup make.

 

World Series Champion's catchers in 2006 = .605 OPS

 

if the overall lineup is terrible then that one player is signficant.

 

might I suggest, first and second and center were also significant problems last year, and as for this year, after today, the overall lineup is not terrible.

[Mephistopheles]

so we went from terrible to average spending 150 million in the process when we probably could have done it for less than half that.

[Pistolcub42]

Some of you need some serious help. We just signed the top free agent out there and all you can do is complain about how horrible a deal it is. Some of you will never be happy. Even when we win the World Series you'll cry about how we did it or some other bs.

 

We just signed SORIANO!!!!! Enjoy it or go cheer for the Royals!!!!!

[Master Shake]

When do the Vegas oddsmakers usually come out with thier odds? I'd be curious to see what they rate the Cubs after this signing.

[Careless]

Some of you need some serious help. We just signed the top free agent out there and all you can do is complain about how horrible a deal it is. Some of you will never be happy. Even when we win the World Series you'll cry about how we did it or some other bs.

 

We just signed SORIANO!!!!! Enjoy it or go cheer for the Royals!!!!!

 

Thanks for making silly claims about our hypothetical behavior. I realize it's easier than addressing the points made, but please don't do it anyway

[Guest]

Some of you need some serious help. We just signed the top free agent out there and all you can do is complain about how horrible a deal it is. Some of you will never be happy. Even when we win the World Series you'll cry about how we did it or some other bs.

 

We just signed SORIANO!!!!! Enjoy it or go cheer for the Royals!!!!!

 

actually, probably the third best hitter out there but we already signed the best. so now we get #2 and we are set.

[shnsajax]

Good God. I tried to read this whole thread. But I stopped at page 5. I swear some people would complain about ANYTHING!!

 

Point #1: We should shop smart, I don't like this signing. - The Tribune is finally PAYING OUT THE WAZOO to WIN and WIN now and you are complaining!!?

 

Point #2: He's gonna suck at 38, he sucks now - He hit 40 HR, 40 steals, 119 runs in 2006. He's got very good states when teams have let him lead off. Lou already stated he plans him for lead-off. He does NOT suck, and furthermore you guys were commenting on a RUMORED amoung when infact it is more like 6/90 with 2 option years.

 

I just can't beleive how many people in the first dozen pages I read were COMPLAINING about this. It just #*#*@*! boggles my mind. How can you not be happy about this? We get a couple above average pitchers and we are now the STRONGEST team in the NL Central by a large margin.

 

This quote looks like it is coming straight from Piniella's mouth in your avatar :D

[illiniguy]

Some of you need some serious help. We just signed the top free agent out there and all you can do is complain about how horrible a deal it is. Some of you will never be happy. Even when we win the World Series you'll cry about how we did it or some other bs.

 

We just signed SORIANO!!!!! Enjoy it or go cheer for the Royals!!!!!

Hey whats wrong with cheering for the Royals, they have a much better farm system than us.

[Bruno7481]

so we went from terrible to average spending 150 million in the process when we probably could have done it for less than half that.

 

Probably is the key word there. You, nor I know what could have been done and how much money could have/have not been spent.

 

It isn't our money, if the Trib wants to spend it then let them.

[Drew Doughty]

Some of you need some serious help. We just signed the top free agent out there and all you can do is complain about how horrible a deal it is. Some of you will never be happy. Even when we win the World Series you'll cry about how we did it or some other bs.

 

We just signed SORIANO!!!!! Enjoy it or go cheer for the Royals!!!!!

 

/cheers for the royals

 

I'd say there's a 90% chance he never repeats what he did last year. And we're paying him money for years like last year. And we're paying him that same amount of money for 8 years. And we can't trade him. Even if we wanted to, he can stop it, even after his NTC expires. And he's essentially untradeable with his contract anyways.

 

It's not a good deal. The only way it's justified is if he produces like this for at least some part of his contract, even though it's extremely unlikely.

 

Is it nice to have Soriano? Sure. It's still not a good signing.

[CubinNY]

Good God. I tried to read this whole thread. But I stopped at page 5. I swear some people would complain about ANYTHING!!

 

Point #1: We should shop smart, I don't like this signing. - The Tribune is finally PAYING OUT THE WAZOO to WIN and WIN now and you are complaining!!?

 

Point #2: He's gonna suck at 38, he sucks now - He hit 40 HR, 40 steals, 119 runs in 2006. He's got very good states when teams have let him lead off. Lou already stated he plans him for lead-off. He does NOT suck, and furthermore you guys were commenting on a RUMORED amoung when infact it is more like 6/90 with 2 option years.

 

I just can't beleive how many people in the first dozen pages I read were COMPLAINING about this. It just #*#*@*! boggles my mind. How can you not be happy about this? We get a couple above average pitchers and we are now the STRONGEST team in the NL Central by a large margin.

 

I don't like the signing.

 

1. Soriano has never played CF

 

2. Soriano is a good, not great, player and now he will be paid like a great player, hampering the Cubs ability to acquire a great young player somewhere in the next five years.

 

3. Soriano has a career OBP of .325. He's only been above that average three out of his six years in the majors and before this past season he posted craptacular .324 and .309 numbers in the last two seasons.

 

4. Soriano is on the wrong side of 30 and he just posted career highs in almost every category.

Edited November 19, 2006 by CubinNY

[UK1679666180]

Good God. I tried to read this whole thread. But I stopped at page 5. I swear some people would complain about ANYTHING!!

 

Point #1: We should shop smart, I don't like this signing. - The Tribune is finally PAYING OUT THE WAZOO to WIN and WIN now and you are complaining!!?

 

Point #2: He's gonna suck at 38, he sucks now - He hit 40 HR, 40 steals, 119 runs in 2006. He's got very good states when teams have let him lead off. Lou already stated he plans him for lead-off. He does NOT suck, and furthermore you guys were commenting on a RUMORED amoung when infact it is more like 6/90 with 2 option years.

 

I just can't beleive how many people in the first dozen pages I read were COMPLAINING about this. It just #*#*@*! boggles my mind. How can you not be happy about this? We get a couple above average pitchers and we are now the STRONGEST team in the NL Central by a large margin.

 

See STL. I assume they will make the nec. moves as well. I see them putting Wainwright in the rotation along side Carpenter, Reyes, and probably Suppan (again) and some project. As well as maybe one more arm in the pen.

 

They'll likely go with Duncan or another OF'er in LF.

 

They will improve.

[Mephistopheles]

so we went from terrible to average spending 150 million in the process when we probably could have done it for less than half that.

 

Probably is the key word there. You, nor I know what could have been done and how much money could have/have not been spent.

 

It isn't our money, if the Trib wants to spend it then let them.

 

Actually I am certain it could have been done.

 

The Cubs got an EqA of roughly .208 from their SSs last season in 486 outs. Julio Lugo's career EqA is .265. The difference between those two over 486 outs is roughly 41 runs. The actual should be higher because for the most part Lugo's been a better hitter the last couple of seasons.

 

The Cubs got an EqA of roughly .250 from their CFers last season in 526 outs. Alfonso Soriano's career EqA is .287. The difference between those two over 526 outs is roughly 30 runs.

 

Julio Lugo could be had for what, 32 million max? Soriano was had for what, 100 million more.

 

You can say shove EqA in your ass all you want. You can do this with any stat and find a similar outcome.