"Sometimes it's easier to play on the road"

[FergieJ31]

^^^^^^^

Because most of the white rookies were pitchers. Good example of why one should never rely on cherry-picked statistics.

 

What are you saying here - did James compare offensive stats of white pitchers vs black position players?

[imb]

^^^^^^^

Because most of the white rookies were pitchers. Good example of why one should never rely on cherry-picked statistics.

 

He was comparing rookies with comparable statistics, I doubt he threw a bunch of pitchers into the white group, skewing all the numbers.

[Laura]

I'm not sure the latest angle in the race & Dusty Baker saga has been posted yet -- I haven't seen it.

 

Dusty made some comments about pitch counts and about Marmol in particular. Here's how The Tribune quoted him:

 

While the Cubs' strength and conditioning program might come under scrutiny this winter because of the number of injuries, manager Dusty Baker doesn't see a correlation.

 

As for Carlos Marmol's biceps "fatigue," Baker attributed it to high pitch counts in the early innings.

 

"Marmol was throwing 90 to 100 pitches before the fifth or sixth," Baker said. "Plus, there's a lot more precaution taken than before. Now if a guy feels almost anything, they put him on the disabled list, where before you had to pitch through it a lot of times."

 

Baker pointed to Greg Maddux's high pitch counts early in his career, claiming Maddux had thrown 167 pitches in one start. "If I left somebody out there 167 pitches, you'd [criticize] me," Baker said.

 

Boers & Bernstein on The Score had the audio of Dusty's comments. What he actually said was, "If I left somebody out there 167 pitches, you'd lynch me."

 

B&B's take is that Dusty will be deliberately raising racial issues as part of the reason why he won't be returning as manager. They thus believe that Dusty would choose to use a racially charged term like "lynch" and that the Tribune, caught in the crossfire between reporting the news and protecting the Cubs' image chose to desensitize Dusty's word by inserting a more neutral term. In my mind,there is a legit question as to why the powers that be at the Trib would replace 'lynch' with 'criticize' ... as distasteful, perhaps, as the term 'lynch' may be, it's certainly not unfit to print in a family paper.

 

This is bound to get ugly.

 

And that's not even getting into the whole question of whether Maddux ever threw 167 pitches in a game.

[CubColtPacer]

I'm not sure the latest angle in the race & Dusty Baker saga has been posted yet -- I haven't seen it.

 

Dusty made some comments about pitch counts and about Marmol in particular. Here's how The Tribune quoted him:

 

While the Cubs' strength and conditioning program might come under scrutiny this winter because of the number of injuries, manager Dusty Baker doesn't see a correlation.

 

As for Carlos Marmol's biceps "fatigue," Baker attributed it to high pitch counts in the early innings.

 

"Marmol was throwing 90 to 100 pitches before the fifth or sixth," Baker said. "Plus, there's a lot more precaution taken than before. Now if a guy feels almost anything, they put him on the disabled list, where before you had to pitch through it a lot of times."

 

Baker pointed to Greg Maddux's high pitch counts early in his career, claiming Maddux had thrown 167 pitches in one start. "If I left somebody out there 167 pitches, you'd [criticize] me," Baker said.

 

 

 

And that's not even getting into the whole question of whether Maddux ever threw 167 pitches in a game.

 

Well, I can somewhat answer this part of the question. Yahoo Splits has 41 games where he threw 121 or more-4 more games where he threw 136 or more, and 1 game he threw 151+ pitches in his career. It lists 4 hits and 3 runs, none of the runs earned for Maddux after pitch 151 in that game-so it was likely that he threw 160 pitches or more, making me believe that the 167 number is probably correct-or at least close to it.

[Mizzou]

Oh my God. Dusty bringing out the race card as a reason for his soon to be departure? You've got to be kidding me. What a pathetic jackass.

[Laura]

 

And that's not even getting into the whole question of whether Maddux ever threw 167 pitches in a game.

 

Well, I can somewhat answer this part of the question. Yahoo Splits has 41 games where he threw 121 or more-4 more games where he threw 136 or more, and 1 game he threw 151+ pitches in his career. It lists 4 hits and 3 runs, none of the runs earned for Maddux after pitch 151 in that game-so it was likely that he threw 160 pitches or more, making me believe that the 167 number is probably correct-or at least close to it.

 

Glad to know where to find retro pitch counts.

[3Dog]

Make no mistake, Dusty will leave behind a scorched-earth policy when he gets the axe. I can just hear the comparisons of his travails with those of MLK, Jesse Jackson, Rosa Parks.....

[Laura]

Oh my God. Dusty bringing out the race card as a reason for his soon to be departure? You've got to be kidding me. What a pathetic jackass.

 

To be clear, that's the angle the sports radio jocks are playing up.

 

I think with the recent Nightengale article, though, that the racial angle will be a media topic regardless of whether Dusty brings it up or not.

[stitchface]

if maddux had been called up with baker as manager, he never would have had a career.

[Laura]

Sometimes it's not so easy to play on the road, eh?

 

San Fran media will be in town for the series this weekend. It will be interesting to see what stories emerge regarding Dusty's status.

[halplm]

Um, Maddux doesn't try and throw as hard as he possibly can every pitch... he spots pitches and thinks better than the batter... not exactly the same type of pitcher as what we've been using and ruining...

[BigbadB]

What's the ratio of "you just plain suck" letters to "racist" driven letters?

 

1000 to 1?

 

Should all future complaint letters specify whether they are motivated by race or the fact the person the complaint is being lodged against just plain sucks? I would really despise knowing that someone took a "you just plain suck" letter that had zero racial tone to it and attempted to spin it into something racial.

 

I'm sure Dusty has received some racist letters. I feel badly for him for that. However, he does deserve every "you just plain suck" letter he receives during this time that he really sucks at what he does.

 

But, I wouldn't stop there. I'd send one to Hendry, MacPhail and Rothschild as well. I'd send one to the Trib execs that have the authority to put competent people in these places of power.

 

This article is horrible. It gives Dusty another way to spin his horrible tenure as manager off on someone else. It was Dusty that batted sub .300 OBP guys at the top of the order. It was Dusty who felt that Neifi was the team savior when everyone else in the room knew he was nothing more than a decent glove/late inning replacement utility player.

 

I couldn't even begin to list all the poor management decisions he's made over the years. I've wanted him gone for quite some time now. Not because of his skin color, but because he isn't good at managing a baseball team. If his replacement is black, I would be perfectly fine with that. Especially if he showed the leadership skills to be a successful manager. Willie Randolph has done quite well in New York. The pressures there are much more unbearable than Chicago. I don't hear Willie making any excuses. Of course, when you get your team motivated to go out and win everyday, the complaint letters aren't exactly flooding the office in the first place.

 

If this whole thing gets twisted into some "Dusty forced out of managerial job due to racial attacks" deal, it will be a cover up for what he should be fired for. He has proven he cannot do the job. And he has been given way too much time to prove it already.

 

He just got swept by the Pittsburgh Pirates. Who's on that team besides Jason Bay? Roberto Clemente? Willie Stargell? Nope. Chris Duffy.

 

Chicago Cubs with Dusty Baker managing the team<<<

 

Chicago Cubs with a competent manager in charge>>>>Pittsburgh Pirates.

 

Skin color has nothing to do with it. So don't play that. Take responsibility for your own failures and quit attempting to lay them on others. There is plenty of others who deserve their own "you just plain suck" letters as well, though. It's not ALL on Dusty.

[Careless]

> It would be the same thing as somebody coming out and saying that men enjoy the cold more than women do-does that make a person sexist?

 

Perfect analogy.

Excellent job demonstrating that racism/sexism and truth are not always divorced.

Pretty damned funny that larry summers was supported by scientists and lost his job due to sociologists/women's studies/etc profs

[Laura]

I enjoy cool temps more than hot temps and can withstand cold temps rather well (love to ski). I'm Irish, give me cloudy days and a cool breeze.

 

But that's just anecdotal and not indicative of female preference re temperature.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

What's the ratio of "you just plain suck" letters to "racist" driven letters?

 

1000 to 1?

 

Actually I think the ratio is much different than that. I'd think someone who hates Dusty because he sucks and he's black is more likely to write an angry letter than someone who hates Dusty just because he's terrible at his job. And who writes Dusty a "you just plain suck" letter? That's just bizarre.

[BigbadB]

That's just bizarre.

 

Bizarre? Is it bizarre that we sit here on this message board everyday and complain about how bad Dusty is? Why would it be bizarre for someone to write a letter directly to the person they have issues with?

 

I don't do it. But, I wouldn't call a season ticket holder, who has seen enough and decided to write a letter to Dusty, bizarre. Would you?