Rogers: Dusty and management "not on the same page.&quo

[goonys evil twin]

I agree with Caryatid, that Baker will use the occasion of his departure to take shots at the front office and blame everyone but himself.

 

We'll be treated to stuff like "I was never given the proper players to win with" or "Promises were made to me but never honored". It would also not be surprising to hear "I'm not the first person of color in this town that never got a fair shake". He'll blame everything and everyone under the sun...and what do you know, he's already blamed the sun itself ("all those day games, dude")!

 

I have followed this team since the Herman Franks era, and I can say with all certainty that Dusty Baker is THE WORST Cub manager I've seen. Make no mistake that since he's been here, it's been All About Dusty. He didn't manage the Cubs so much as he used them for his own self-aggrandizement. He came to Chicago not for what he could do for the Cubs, but instead for what the Cubs could do for him - namely, enhance his already over-inflated reputation. Two young power arms, the 2nd best power hitter in the NL (at that time), a nationwide fan base, and a huge media market...no wonder he said "I'm here to win, not develop"!

 

The end of this miserable season can't get here fast enough.

 

I think Dusty's jabs will be much more subtle. He is never up front with a straight answer. It's always a bunch of jibberish. It will be clear to those who pay attention, but he'll be able to look back at the quote and point out that he never directly insulted the GM or made excuses.

[dew1679666265]

Who knows, I'm on the fence with this one. If Hendry did fire him during the ASB I would'nt be upset about it...It's a bit too late now anyway.

Paging Marty McFly and Dr. Brown. :D

 

Hit the Quantum Leap music!

 

Also, as well as the Braves have been doing, I'm convinced that Ned Yost is only a hair better than Dust-for-brains. His lineups, pitcher handling, and calling of the game (hit & runs, SBs, etc) leave much to be desired. However, he should get kudos for hiring Mike Maddux as his pitching coach.

 

I don't quite understand what you don't like about Yost's lineups. Here's an average one for instance.

 

Brady Clark- .280 BA, .374 OBP, .348 SLG

Jeff Cirillo- .323 BA, .379 OBP, .418 SLG

Prince Fielder- .282 BA, .350 OBP, .502 SLG

Gabe Gross- .271 BA, .374 OBP, .488 SLG (He's also hit leadoff some)

Bill Hall- .273 BA, .333 OBP, .566 SLG

Tony Graffanino- .317 BA, .352 OBP, .413 SLG (He's hit in the 2 spot some)

Corey Hart- .270 BA, .333 OBP, .338 SLG (Plus he's a youngster starting over a struggling vet, Geoff Jenkins)

Mike Rivera- .304 BA, .333 OBP, .500 SLG

 

Kevin Mench, .295 BA .335 OBP .452 SLG, has hit fifth some and David Bell, .272 BA .337 OBP .390 SLG, has hit seventh some. Not much to dislike that I can tell from that lineup. There are some issues but it's mostly not having the correct personnel (why is David Bell on the team for instance) but that's the GM's fault, not Yost's.

[biittner77]

I agree with Caryatid, that Baker will use the occasion of his departure to take shots at the front office and blame everyone but himself.

 

We'll be treated to stuff like "I was never given the proper players to win with" or "Promises were made to me but never honored". It would also not be surprising to hear "I'm not the first person of color in this town that never got a fair shake". He'll blame everything and everyone under the sun...and what do you know, he's already blamed the sun itself ("all those day games, dude")!

 

I have followed this team since the Herman Franks era, and I can say with all certainty that Dusty Baker is THE WORST Cub manager I've seen. Make no mistake that since he's been here, it's been All About Dusty. He didn't manage the Cubs so much as he used them for his own self-aggrandizement. He came to Chicago not for what he could do for the Cubs, but instead for what the Cubs could do for him - namely, enhance his already over-inflated reputation. Two young power arms, the 2nd best power hitter in the NL (at that time), a nationwide fan base, and a huge media market...no wonder he said "I'm here to win, not develop"!

 

The end of this miserable season can't get here fast enough.

 

I think Dusty's jabs will be much more subtle. He is never up front with a straight answer. It's always a bunch of jibberish. It will be clear to those who pay attention, but he'll be able to look back at the quote and point out that he never directly insulted the GM or made excuses.

 

Also, it won't help him get another job if he whines too much about Hendry- unless it's with the Dodgers who seem to really hate the Cubs.

 

I see the scenario where Hendry offers Baker a 1 year deal and Baker turns it down saying he needs more time or he deserves better or some such and the two sides go their separate ways. The best part is we could get to here Baker's fishing analogies on BBTN for a year until someone else needs a manager.

[goonys evil twin]

Also, it won't help him get another job if he whines too much about Hendry- unless it's with the Dodgers who seem to really hate the Cubs.

 

From what I can tell, Colletti is a bit anti-Dusty following his years of working alongside him in San Fran.

[Jake]

When the job opens, Cubs, please consider the following:

 

1. Larry Dierker

2. Davey Johnson

3. Fredi Gonzalez

 

That is all. Thanks.

 

No Jim Tracey? Please?

[jjgman21]

Who knows, I'm on the fence with this one. If Hendry did fire him during the ASB I would'nt be upset about it...It's a bit too late now anyway.

Paging Marty McFly and Dr. Brown. :D

 

Hit the Quantum Leap music!

 

Also, as well as the Braves have been doing, I'm convinced that Ned Yost is only a hair better than Dust-for-brains. His lineups, pitcher handling, and calling of the game (hit & runs, SBs, etc) leave much to be desired. However, he should get kudos for hiring Mike Maddux as his pitching coach.

 

I don't quite understand what you don't like about Yost's lineups. Here's an average one for instance.

 

Brady Clark- .280 BA, .374 OBP, .348 SLG

Jeff Cirillo- .323 BA, .379 OBP, .418 SLG

Prince Fielder- .282 BA, .350 OBP, .502 SLG

Gabe Gross- .271 BA, .374 OBP, .488 SLG (He's also hit leadoff some)

Bill Hall- .273 BA, .333 OBP, .566 SLG

Tony Graffanino- .317 BA, .352 OBP, .413 SLG (He's hit in the 2 spot some)

Corey Hart- .270 BA, .333 OBP, .338 SLG (Plus he's a youngster starting over a struggling vet, Geoff Jenkins)

Mike Rivera- .304 BA, .333 OBP, .500 SLG

 

Kevin Mench, .295 BA .335 OBP .452 SLG, has hit fifth some and David Bell, .272 BA .337 OBP .390 SLG, has hit seventh some. Not much to dislike that I can tell from that lineup. There are some issues but it's mostly not having the correct personnel (why is David Bell on the team for instance) but that's the GM's fault, not Yost's.

 

actually that's not typical at all considering that Gross and Clark have been platooned in center and are rarely in the linup at the same time, and that Clark is listed as leadoff, where he has been less than half the time when he should be there every single game he starts. more often he is put in the 8 hole where his great obp is wasted.

 

much like Dusty, he doesn't stick with any consistent lineup and puts guys in inexplicable places in the lineup.

[jjgman21]

just a thought on a possible reason Hendry stuck with Dusty. much like Dusty seems to be setting it up to blame Hendry, Hendry might be doing the same with Dusty, ie. "I know we had alot of injuries, but we felt that Dusty didn't do as well with the guys he still had as was expected. we also feel he didn't meet our expectations in terms of keeping a stable clubhouse and attracting big name free agents to Chicago. we gave him every opportunity to bring the team together and to get the team back on track, but that didn't happen."

 

oh for a little bit of truth like that.

[goonys evil twin]

just a thought on a possible reason Hendry stuck with Dusty. much like Dusty seems to be setting it up to blame Hendry, Hendry might be doing the same with Dusty, ie. "I know we had alot of injuries, but we felt that Dusty didn't do as well with the guys he still had as was expected. we also feel he didn't meet our expectations in terms of keeping a stable clubhouse and attracting big name free agents to Chicago. we gave him every opportunity to bring the team together and to get the team back on track, but that didn't happen."

 

oh for a little bit of truth like that.

 

Maybe that is true, but if it was, he had the perfect opportunity around the all star break. Dusty has already allowed the team to underperform. It wouldn't make much sense to give him another couple months if your intention was to defend letting him go by pointing at how poorly the team played when the chips were down. Plus, I really don't think Hendry is such a conniving guy. I think he honestly believes Dusty is the right guy for the job, and if anything, he's holding onto him to the end because he's having such a hard time convincing himself that Baker needs to go, because that would mean admitting he was so very wrong to go so hard after him in the first place.

[dew1679666265]

Who knows, I'm on the fence with this one. If Hendry did fire him during the ASB I would'nt be upset about it...It's a bit too late now anyway.

Paging Marty McFly and Dr. Brown. :D

 

Hit the Quantum Leap music!

 

Also, as well as the Braves have been doing, I'm convinced that Ned Yost is only a hair better than Dust-for-brains. His lineups, pitcher handling, and calling of the game (hit & runs, SBs, etc) leave much to be desired. However, he should get kudos for hiring Mike Maddux as his pitching coach.

 

I don't quite understand what you don't like about Yost's lineups. Here's an average one for instance.

 

Brady Clark- .280 BA, .374 OBP, .348 SLG

Jeff Cirillo- .323 BA, .379 OBP, .418 SLG

Prince Fielder- .282 BA, .350 OBP, .502 SLG

Gabe Gross- .271 BA, .374 OBP, .488 SLG (He's also hit leadoff some)

Bill Hall- .273 BA, .333 OBP, .566 SLG

Tony Graffanino- .317 BA, .352 OBP, .413 SLG (He's hit in the 2 spot some)

Corey Hart- .270 BA, .333 OBP, .338 SLG (Plus he's a youngster starting over a struggling vet, Geoff Jenkins)

Mike Rivera- .304 BA, .333 OBP, .500 SLG

 

Kevin Mench, .295 BA .335 OBP .452 SLG, has hit fifth some and David Bell, .272 BA .337 OBP .390 SLG, has hit seventh some. Not much to dislike that I can tell from that lineup. There are some issues but it's mostly not having the correct personnel (why is David Bell on the team for instance) but that's the GM's fault, not Yost's.

 

actually that's not typical at all considering that Gross and Clark have been platooned in center and are rarely in the linup at the same time, and that Clark is listed as leadoff, where he has been less than half the time when he should be there every single game he starts. more often he is put in the 8 hole where his great obp is wasted.

 

much like Dusty, he doesn't stick with any consistent lineup and puts guys in inexplicable places in the lineup.

 

From Friday, June 23 (random date, it's just where I got tired of looking at lineups, if you want I'll go further back but I was seeing a trend) until his injury Rickie Weeks, .279 BA .363 OBP .404 SLG, started every game in the leadoff spot but two, those were leadoff by Gabe Gross. After Weeks' injury, Gabe Gross started two games at leadoff and Tony Gwynn Jr. (odd) started one. After the Carlos Lee trade, Brady Clark has started every game in the leadoff spot with either Cirillo or Graffanino batting second. The number two hitter for 16 times was Jeff Cirillo, .379 OBP. Corey Koskie, .343 OBP, started twice, Bill Hall, .333 OBP, started 8 times and Chris Barnwell, a rookie, started twice. I'll admit that Cirillo should never have left the two spot, unless for Clark, but it's hard to argue that Clark would have made that big a difference over Weeks in the leadoff spot. Fielder, Lee, and Jenkins made up the middle of the order almost every game before the Lee trade and since then it's been Fielder, Hall, and Mench/Gross. You can make somewhat of an argument that his lineups aren't exactly the same every time but there's not a huge difference in many of them. To say his lineups are similar in any way to Dusty's or inexplicable, though, is very confusing.

[soccer10k]

Who knows what will come next, but you can be assured, the Cubs will need to hire a manager who will be a name that will appease the fan base and send a positive PR message, and I don't think that person is Gonzalez

 

Anyone they hire will be welcomed by the fanbase. The Cubs have floundered with 2 big names: Don Baylor (who was highly thought of at the time) and Dusty Baker. The marketing will be young team, young manager.

 

Agreed. Obviously there are some people that aren't going to be a fan of whoever the Cubs hire. Also, that person is coming into a decent situation because the Cubs have been so bad this year so any decent improvement and show of looking to the future will be welcomed.

[Iceblink]

It's ok that they're not on the same page. It's not ok that neither is on the right page.

[Jon]

Am I the only one who didn't really get that article? And wasn't that quote about judging him based on his past addressed to the media and public?

[MembersOnlyJacket]

When the job opens, Cubs, please consider the following:

 

1. Larry Dierker

2. Davey Johnson

3. Fredi Gonzalez

 

That is all. Thanks.

 

If the Cubs job is available and they don't interview Brad Mills, then they aren't doing their job.

 

I think he is the best canidate for the job. He is the most open about using skill as a metric rather than experience. He has toiled for years managing in the minors, 5 with the Cubs (87-92), spent 1 year as an advanced scout for the Cubs, and most recently he's been Francona's brain for the last 4 seasons.

[Stu]

In retrospect, Riggs wasn't all that bad.

[Outshined_One]

My thing with the lineups regarding Yost was based on what I saw of him during my past four years at UW-Madison. Perhaps he has improved on that particular aspect of the game recently, but I remember him putting out some really strange lineups during that time. Sometimes, it had to do with the quality of players he had to work with, but a number of other times, it just didn't make sense.

 

That said, I'd happily trade the Brewers' position players for the guys the Cubs have.

[UK1679666180]

When the job opens, Cubs, please consider the following:

 

1. Larry Dierker

2. Davey Johnson

3. Fredi Gonzalez

 

That is all. Thanks.

 

As much as I touted him in the past, there comes a point when being away from the game too long has an impact. With his age and time from the game, I still think he can do well, just that he won't be given a chance.

 

IMO, Hershiser is the best potential candidate out there for manager.

[dew1679666265]

My thing with the lineups regarding Yost was based on what I saw of him during my past four years at UW-Madison. Perhaps he has improved on that particular aspect of the game recently, but I remember him putting out some really strange lineups during that time. Sometimes, it had to do with the quality of players he had to work with, but a number of other times, it just didn't make sense.

 

That said, I'd happily trade the Brewers' position players for the guys the Cubs have.

 

I'm not sure what he did at UW-Madison but I haven't seen any consistent oddities in any of his lineups. Personally, I would take him or most any of the Braves coaching staff to manage the Cubs. They've proven they have a strategy that wins consistently and I feel that Bobby Cox is one of the best, if not the best, manager in the game and anyone working under him is likely to hold similar, if not the same, successful philosophies that Cox and the Braves hold.

[CuseCubFan69]

When the job opens, Cubs, please consider the following:

 

1. Larry Dierker

2. Davey Johnson

3. Fredi Gonzalez

 

That is all. Thanks.

 

As much as I touted him in the past, there comes a point when being away from the game too long has an impact. With his age and time from the game, I still think he can do well, just that he won't be given a chance.

 

IMO, Hershiser is the best potential candidate out there for manager.

 

I don't like Hershiser if what he says while doing broadcasts is any indiction of what kind of manager he would be.

[stitchface]

When the job opens, Cubs, please consider the following:

 

1. Larry Dierker

2. Davey Johnson

3. Fredi Gonzalez

 

That is all. Thanks.

 

As much as I touted him in the past, there comes a point when being away from the game too long has an impact. With his age and time from the game, I still think he can do well, just that he won't be given a chance.

 

IMO, Hershiser is the best potential candidate out there for manager.

 

I don't like Hershiser if what he says while doing broadcasts is any indiction of what kind of manager he would be.

 

totally agree. no on hershiser

[CaliforniaRaisin]

When the job opens, Cubs, please consider the following:

 

1. Larry Dierker

2. Davey Johnson

3. Fredi Gonzalez

 

That is all. Thanks.

 

As much as I touted him in the past, there comes a point when being away from the game too long has an impact. With his age and time from the game, I still think he can do well, just that he won't be given a chance.

 

IMO, Hershiser is the best potential candidate out there for manager.

 

Orel over Fredi? I disagree.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

When the job opens, Cubs, please consider the following:

 

1. Larry Dierker

2. Davey Johnson

3. Fredi Gonzalez

 

That is all. Thanks.

 

As much as I touted him in the past, there comes a point when being away from the game too long has an impact. With his age and time from the game, I still think he can do well, just that he won't be given a chance.

 

IMO, Hershiser is the best potential candidate out there for manager.

 

Orel over Fredi? I disagree.

 

Yep. While it's not a lot, everything I've heard from Hershiser has been Kruk-esque.

[NCCubFan]

My thing with the lineups regarding Yost was based on what I saw of him during my past four years at UW-Madison.

I'm not sure what he did at UW-Madison but I haven't seen any consistent oddities in any of his lineups.

It's the poster that was at UW-Madison, not Yost.

[UK1679666180]

When the job opens, Cubs, please consider the following:

 

1. Larry Dierker

2. Davey Johnson

3. Fredi Gonzalez

 

That is all. Thanks.

 

As much as I touted him in the past, there comes a point when being away from the game too long has an impact. With his age and time from the game, I still think he can do well, just that he won't be given a chance.

 

IMO, Hershiser is the best potential candidate out there for manager.

 

Orel over Fredi? I disagree.

 

Yep. While it's not a lot, everything I've heard from Hershiser has been Kruk-esque.

 

Many broadcasters are similar in that aspect, their goal is to appeal to the avg. fan. Dierker as a broadcaster, I only heard him pre-managerial stint was very much like that.

[dew1679666265]

My thing with the lineups regarding Yost was based on what I saw of him during my past four years at UW-Madison.

I'm not sure what he did at UW-Madison but I haven't seen any consistent oddities in any of his lineups.

It's the poster that was at UW-Madison, not Yost.

 

Gosh, that's terrible. :oops: When I read the post, I took it to mean that he was attending UW-Madison at the same time that Yost was coaching there. Didn't think I had ever heard of him coaching there. :)

[dalgreen]

Some of you appear to be all over the map as much as Rogers is. I would have no problem if Baker left and criticized the Cub organization calling it "an organization with no plan", "I'm not sure if they're commited to winning" or anything else like that because those are my same thoughts. Of course, to me, the organization would become commited to winning if they didn't re-sign Baker and fired a bunch of others within the organization including MacPhail and Hendry.