Maddux and $$$ to the Dodgers for Cesar Izturis

[dvdd127]

betchya nething if Maddux wasnt a Cub early in the year... Marshall wont not be 3-3 right now.. but rather he'd be down in AAA and we would have traded for another starter

 

I'll bet a grammar text book.

shut up.

 

Don't tell other posters to shut up.

He was making fun of my slang typing... I couldnt help myself

 

You're going to have to. Don't attack other posters. If you don't like their making fun of you, PM one of the mods and ask them to intervene.

i said. your right and appologized.. can we get back to the topic.

 

thanks

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Ok...I'll repost this as a "back to the topic."

 

Maddux's spot in the HOF has nothing to do with whther we should trade him. And even if he has an effect on the young pitchers, it's likely negligible. He's probably shared all the advice he has anyway.

 

When you have a team 22 games under .500 approaching the deadline, the smartest thing they can do is trade any and all players who are not part of the future. Any player not under contract is in that group. If you want to retain them, have the sign an extension. Without an extension, even if you want them next season, you're still bidding with all the other teams. Having kept them lends a little advantage, but not much.

 

Maddux is in this group. A team that is going to move forward has to put sentimentality aside and get what they can for every impending FA. This idea isn't the same for players under team control for 2007 and beyond, but Maddux, Walker, Pierre, Nevin, and Blanco should be moved if a trade is available. That is the prudent and intelligent thing to do.

[dvdd127]

Vance I agree with what you said.. but Hendry said he is not having a firesale. Which leads me to believe that guys like Pierre and Maddux are in the plans for '07

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Vance I agree with what you said.. but Hendry said he is not having a firesale. Which leads me to believe that guys like Pierre and Maddux are in the plans for '07

 

I wouldn't consider trading Maddux or Pierre having a "fire sale." Trading Ramirez, Lee, Howry, Eyre, Dempster, etc would be.

 

Even if Pierre and Maddux are in the plans, what benefit do you have in not trading them? Very little. The Cubs will have a small window to sign them, but it's doubtful they sign without listening to other offers. When that happens, having retained them could be a detriment. If you don't offer arbitration, the Cubs have to sign them before the winter meetings or lose negotiating rights until May 1, assuring they will play elsewhere. With Pierre, I can see the Cubs offering arbitration. I can't see this happening with Maddux.

 

If they are in the plans, go ahead and sign the extensions. My guess is neither is willing to do that. The wise move is to trade them and then enter the bidding for them come November. It's not a firesale, it's maximizing assets in a lost season.

[dvdd127]

I wouldn't consider trading Maddux or Pierre having a "fire sale." Trading Ramirez, Lee, Howry, Eyre, Dempster, etc would be.

hu??

 

Even if Pierre and Maddux are in the plans, what benefit do you have in not trading them? Very little. The Cubs will have a small window to sign them, but it's doubtful they sign without listening to other offers. When that happens, having retained them could be a detriment. If you don't offer arbitration, the Cubs have to sign them before the winter meetings or lose negotiating rights until May 1, assuring they will play elsewhere. With Pierre, I can see the Cubs offering arbitration. I can't see this happening with Maddux.

I realize this... and with Maddux I think the should at least see what they get for him. With Pierre I dont want to get pitching for him... I would rather try to get another Center fielder who could be in the palns for '07.

 

If they are in the plans, go ahead and sign the extensions. My guess is neither is willing to do that. The wise move is to trade them and then enter the bidding for them come November. It's not a firesale, it's maximizing assets in a lost season.

The question is.. will they still be free agents at that point.. or will the team they are traded to have signed them to an extension.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

hu??

 

It's not a firesale in the sense that we're unloading them because of salary. We're trading them with an eye for the future, but in the Cubs case that future should be next season. Does it really make a difference if we lose 89 games or if we lose 96?

 

I .realize this... and with Maddux I think the should at least see what they get for him. With Pierre I dont want to get pitching for him... I would rather try to get another Center fielder who could be in the palns for '07.

 

It doesn't matter what we get for Pierre. We're still going to have to produce the dollars to sign him in the offseason. Get the best player you can whether it's a pitcher or not. We also have Pie in AAA that can play CF or shift Jones there.

 

 

The question is.. will they still be free agents at that point.. or will the team they are traded to have signed them to an extension.

 

I doubt extensions will be signed. It's a risk you take, but most players prefer to test the waters of free agency than take the first offer made.

 

If the Cubs want to retain them, make the best offer now. If Pierre turns it down, trade him. If it's the best offer you want to make, then you know it doesn't matter what another team is going to offer.

[dvdd127]

hu??

 

It's not a firesale in the sense that we're unloading them because of salary. We're trading them with an eye for the future, but in the Cubs case that future should be next season. Does it really make a difference if we lose 89 games or if we lose 96?

i see what you are saying now.. and I totally agree.

 

I .realize this... and with Maddux I think the should at least see what they get for him. With Pierre I dont want to get pitching for him... I would rather try to get another Center fielder who could be in the palns for '07.

 

It doesn't matter what we get for Pierre. We're still going to have to produce the dollars to sign him in the offseason. Get the best player you can whether it's a pitcher or not. We also have Pie in AAA that can play CF or shift Jones there.

As if we dont have the money to sign him... and Pie is not ready for the big scene yet.

 

The question is.. will they still be free agents at that point.. or will the team they are traded to have signed them to an extension.

 

I doubt extensions will be signed. It's a risk you take, but most players prefer to test the waters of free agency than take the first offer made.

 

If the Cubs want to retain them, make the best offer now. If Pierre turns it down, trade him. If it's the best offer you want to make, then you know it doesn't matter what another team is going to offer.

I agree with you.... but they dont like to talk about extensions during the season.. as if it matters with how bad they are doing.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

As if we dont have the money to sign him... and Pie is not ready for the big scene yet.

 

Fine. We sign him in November. I, personally, don't want him back. There will be better CFers to sign.

 

I agree with you.... but they dont like to talk about extensions during the season.. as if it matters with how bad they are doing.

 

If Pierre doesn't want to discuss extension you trade him. It's better than risking him leaving via FA and not getting anything but a draft pic that we'll use for a toolsy player with no plate discipline.

[dvdd127]

As if we dont have the money to sign him... and Pie is not ready for the big scene yet.

 

Fine. We sign him in November. I, personally, don't want him back. There will be better CFers to sign.

 

I agree with you.... but they dont like to talk about extensions during the season.. as if it matters with how bad they are doing.

 

If Pierre doesn't want to discuss extension you trade him. It's better than risking him leaving via FA and not getting anything but a draft pic that we'll use for a toolsy player with no plate discipline.

There will be other CFers to sign..yes. But we might also be looking for a right fielder or even a left fielder.. cause Jones may be traded.. and Murton could be too. We could be looking at a whole new outfield next year. Where it comes to trading Pierre.. yes. I would agree if he doesnt wanna discuss an extension trade him and get something in return.. in the case he goes elsewhere in '07.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Here's what Jayson Stark wrote about Maddux on Saturday prior to the Williamson trade.

 

The Cubs are shopping Todd Walker and Scott Williamson more heavily than they're pushing Maddux. But they've now spelled out to interested clubs -- specifically, the Dodgers, Padres and Brewers -- exactly what they're looking for if they do move Maddux to a team of his choosing. "You're not going to get Greg Maddux for some guy in A-ball," says an official of one team with interest. "It's got to be a major-league player. Or if it's not, it has to be somebody who's real close -- somebody in Triple-A they can call up in September. If not, he won't go anywhere. He's Greg Maddux. He's won 325 games. He's not somebody you just give away for a prospect." The Dodgers remain the team that looks like the best fit. But the buzz of late is that the Dodger the Cubs have targeted is good-looking outfielder Andre Ethier. And Ethier actually is second on the Dodgers' whole roster (to only Nomar Garciaparra) in both on-base percentage and slugging. So unless they can find some alternative, Maddux might not wind up in Chavez Ravine after all.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Supposedly, the Dodgers have asked about the availability of Howry/Eyre/Dempster in any Maddux trade.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Howry + Maddux for Ethier + Broxton

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Supposedly, the Dodgers have asked about the availability of Howry/Eyre/Dempster in any Maddux trade.

 

For the right combination of players, I'm willing to deal one of them.

[LuckyPup]

how about Ethier+Broxton for Maddux+Walker+ Williamso....oh wait-nevermind.

[dvdd127]

Howry + Maddux for Ethier + Broxton

sorry. no. i dont wanna give up Howry

[muntjack]

I would really prefer giving up Demp in that scenario. I think Wuertz could handle closing until the job is handed over to Broxton at some point.

 

Howry and Eyre have done their jobs very well for the most part, and it would be nice to not have to worry about the pen this offseason.

 

Maddux + Dempster for Ethier + Broxton seems feasible.

 

We could, of course, package Ethier + Pie + Broxton for Miggy Cabrera..... :-)

 

And follow with Murton + Cedeno + Hill for Miggy Tejada.

 

Now we have fewer unproven players for Dusty to ruin, no pitching whatsoever, and a higher payroll....but we won't be shutout very often :-)

[dvdd127]

I would really prefer giving up Demp in that scenario. I think Wuertz could handle closing until the job is handed over to Broxton at some point.

 

Howry and Eyre have done their jobs very well for the most part, and it would be nice to not have to worry about the pen this offseason.

 

Maddux + Dempster for Ethier + Broxton seems feasible.

 

We could, of course, package Ethier + Pie + Broxton for Miggy Cabrera..... :-)

 

And follow with Murton + Cedeno + Hill for Miggy Tejada.

 

Now we have fewer unproven players for Dusty to ruin, no pitching whatsoever, and a higher payroll....but we won't be shutout very often :-)

if you could do this without getting rid of Dempster I would rather do it then.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

I would really prefer giving up Demp in that scenario. I think Wuertz could handle closing until the job is handed over to Broxton at some point.

 

Howry and Eyre have done their jobs very well for the most part, and it would be nice to not have to worry about the pen this offseason.

 

Maddux + Dempster for Ethier + Broxton seems feasible.

 

We could, of course, package Ethier + Pie + Broxton for Miggy Cabrera..... :-)

 

And follow with Murton + Cedeno + Hill for Miggy Tejada.

 

Now we have fewer unproven players for Dusty to ruin, no pitching whatsoever, and a higher payroll....but we won't be shutout very often :-)

if you could do this without getting rid of Dempster I would rather do it then.

 

In order to get value a team has to be willing to part with value. The purpose of the trade would be to fulfill the Dodgers needs as well as the Cubs own needs.

 

In this situation, the Dodgers need pitching and either Dempster or Howry could be used since they hold the most value in the pen. I'm not excluding Eyre, but he has an NTC.

[davearm]

Howry + Maddux for Ethier + Broxton

I'm impressed with Ethier as much as the next guy, but I'd prefer Maddux for Joel Guzman straight up, if it meant we could hold onto our relievers.

 

If the Dodgers are sold on Ethier and Kemp, then Guzman becomes more expendable (although I realize he could just go back to 3B).

[dvdd127]

I would really prefer giving up Demp in that scenario. I think Wuertz could handle closing until the job is handed over to Broxton at some point.

 

Howry and Eyre have done their jobs very well for the most part, and it would be nice to not have to worry about the pen this offseason.

 

Maddux + Dempster for Ethier + Broxton seems feasible.

 

We could, of course, package Ethier + Pie + Broxton for Miggy Cabrera..... :-)

 

And follow with Murton + Cedeno + Hill for Miggy Tejada.

 

Now we have fewer unproven players for Dusty to ruin, no pitching whatsoever, and a higher payroll....but we won't be shutout very often :-)

if you could do this without getting rid of Dempster I would rather do it then.

 

In order to get value a team has to be willing to part with value. The purpose of the trade would be to fulfill the Dodgers needs as well as the Cubs own needs.

 

In this situation, the Dodgers need pitching and either Dempster or Howry could be used since they hold the most value in the pen. I'm not excluding Eyre, but he has an NTC.

Ok. I realize that. But I dont know much about Broxton thats why I say if we could do it without getting rid of Dempster I would like it more

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Howry + Maddux for Ethier + Broxton

I'm impressed with Ethier as much as the next guy, but I'd prefer Maddux for Joel Guzman straight up, if it meant we could hold onto our relievers.

 

If the Dodgers are sold on Ethier and Kemp, then Guzman becomes more expendable (although I realize he could just go back to 3B).

 

The Dodgers have soured a tad on Guzman, he'll be the easiest of their young guys to acquire.

[RynoRules]

Supposedly, the Dodgers have asked about the availability of Howry/Eyre/Dempster in any Maddux trade.

 

For the right combination of players, I'm willing to deal one of them.

 

Yup.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I would really prefer giving up Demp in that scenario. I think Wuertz could handle closing until the job is handed over to Broxton at some point.

 

Howry and Eyre have done their jobs very well for the most part, and it would be nice to not have to worry about the pen this offseason.

 

Maddux + Dempster for Ethier + Broxton seems feasible.

 

We could, of course, package Ethier + Pie + Broxton for Miggy Cabrera..... :-)

 

And follow with Murton + Cedeno + Hill for Miggy Tejada.

 

Now we have fewer unproven players for Dusty to ruin, no pitching whatsoever, and a higher payroll....but we won't be shutout very often :-)

if you could do this without getting rid of Dempster I would rather do it then.

 

In order to get value a team has to be willing to part with value. The purpose of the trade would be to fulfill the Dodgers needs as well as the Cubs own needs.

 

In this situation, the Dodgers need pitching and either Dempster or Howry could be used since they hold the most value in the pen. I'm not excluding Eyre, but he has an NTC.

Ok. I realize that. But I dont know much about Broxton thats why I say if we could do it without getting rid of Dempster I would like it more

 

Then shouldn't you take it upon yourself to learn more about the player instead of just deciding you would rather have Dempster? Closer is the most overrated "position" in baseball.

[soccer10k]

Supposedly, the Dodgers have asked about the availability of Howry/Eyre/Dempster in any Maddux trade.

 

For the right combination of players, I'm willing to deal one of them.

 

Agreed. I would prefer to give up Dempster but if either Howry/Eyre were needed to complete the deal then so be it.

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

Per Rotoworld...

 

The Padres are reportedly interested in acquiring Greg Maddux from the Cubs.

The Cubs won't trade Maddux unless he agrees to the deal, but he is from Las Vegas and wants to return to the West Coast. A move to San Diego might be the ideal location for the professor.