BaAvg./OBP difference

[Derwood]

With WGN listing OBP in their batter stat lines, I've noticed that the standard difference betweeen the two (for normal, non-Cub hitters) is about 70 to 80 points. In other words, a .290 hitter usually has a .360-.370 OBP. Obviously some players (Dunn) have a much larger difference, but it seems that even marginal hitters (Ausmus, for example) have that 60-70 point difference.

 

Now let's look at the Cubs:

 

Walker: .290/.367 - 77

Murton: .274/.345 - 71

Barrett: .298/.365 - 67

Ramirez: .248/.314 - 66

Pierre: .241/.284 - 43

Jones: .291/.327 - 36

Cedeno: .300/.326 - 26

Perez: .214/.230 - 16

 

Only 4 players fall into that range. FOUR. At least you can say that A-Ram, despite a crappy average, is maintaining the proper OBP differential.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I noticed that too, I think with Jason LAne tonight. I was stunned, and the thought "who is the Astros batting coach "? crossed my mind. I just dont get the Cubs management. its more then just a major league level coach. its the whole damn organization. it has to be. JASON FRIGGEN LANE has a 208 ave and a 352 OBP...PITCH RECOGNITION

 

seriosly, what up COBS???

[dalgreen]

With WGN listing OBP in their batter stat lines, I've noticed that the standard difference betweeen the two (for normal, non-Cub hitters) is about 70 to 80 points. In other words, a .290 hitter usually has a .360-.370 OBP. Obviously some players (Dunn) have a much larger difference, but it seems that even marginal hitters (Ausmus, for example) have that 60-70 point difference.

 

Now let's look at the Cubs:

 

Walker: .290/.367 - 77

Murton: .274/.345 - 71

Barrett: .298/.365 - 67

Ramirez: .248/.314 - 66

Pierre: .241/.284 - 43

Jones: .291/.327 - 36

Cedeno: .300/.326 - 26

Perez: .214/.230 - 16

 

Only 4 players fall into that range. FOUR. At least you can say that A-Ram, despite a crappy average, is maintaining the proper OBP differential.

 

It may be a proper differential but Ramirez still has a crappy OBP. I find no silver lining with anyone who has a .314 OBP. By the way, it seems Murton's OBP is dropping rather rapidly.

[Derwood]

With WGN listing OBP in their batter stat lines, I've noticed that the standard difference betweeen the two (for normal, non-Cub hitters) is about 70 to 80 points. In other words, a .290 hitter usually has a .360-.370 OBP. Obviously some players (Dunn) have a much larger difference, but it seems that even marginal hitters (Ausmus, for example) have that 60-70 point difference.

 

Now let's look at the Cubs:

 

Walker: .290/.367 - 77

Murton: .274/.345 - 71

Barrett: .298/.365 - 67

Ramirez: .248/.314 - 66

Pierre: .241/.284 - 43

Jones: .291/.327 - 36

Cedeno: .300/.326 - 26

Perez: .214/.230 - 16

 

Only 4 players fall into that range. FOUR. At least you can say that A-Ram, despite a crappy average, is maintaining the proper OBP differential.

 

It may be a proper differential but Ramirez still has a crappy OBP. I find no silver lining with anyone who has a .314 OBP. By the way, it seems Murton's OBP is dropping rather rapidly.

 

right, but when compared to his backup....

 

And Cedeno's average sure is lessened by that OBP, wow

[minnesotacubsfan]

With WGN listing OBP in their batter stat lines, I've noticed that the standard difference betweeen the two (for normal, non-Cub hitters) is about 70 to 80 points. In other words, a .290 hitter usually has a .360-.370 OBP. Obviously some players (Dunn) have a much larger difference, but it seems that even marginal hitters (Ausmus, for example) have that 60-70 point difference.

 

Now let's look at the Cubs:

 

Walker: .290/.367 - 77

Murton: .274/.345 - 71

Barrett: .298/.365 - 67

Ramirez: .248/.314 - 66

Pierre: .241/.284 - 43

Jones: .291/.327 - 36

Cedeno: .300/.326 - 26

Perez: .214/.230 - 16

 

Only 4 players fall into that range. FOUR. At least you can say that A-Ram, despite a crappy average, is maintaining the proper OBP differential.

 

It may be a proper differential but Ramirez still has a crappy OBP. I find no silver lining with anyone who has a .314 OBP. By the way, it seems Murton's OBP is dropping rather rapidly.

 

right, but when compared to his backup....

 

And Cedeno's average sure is lessened by that OBP, wow

 

Ronny needs to take some walks fo sho

Holy crap, Neifi Perez is really bad.

 

 

This is from the scholarly journal Duh

[Derwood]

small sample size of course, but Lee's OBP was 130 points above his BaAvg.

[MembersOnlyJacket]

Holy crap, Neifi Perez is really bad.

 

 

This is from the scholarly journal Duh

 

But, Dusty continues to trot him out there because for whatever reason the Cubs need his defense. That, despite the fact that Todd Walker has fielded every chance at 2nd without an error. Neifi has 4 of them in far fewer chances. Baker's old school though and he played the game...

[rocket]

Not sure if you knew, Derwood, but that stat is called isolated discipline, or isoD.

 

Isolated Power is SLG - BA, another fun thing to look at.

[BigbadB]

I hope tomorrow's line up looks like this:

 

Pierre

Neifi

Bynum

Blanco

Womack

Mabry

Jones

Ramirez

 

These guys need to be run out of town. A line up like that ought to do the trick.

 

This team will not be better until this front office is gone. Until they are gone, I hope they continue running Neifi out there in the 2 spot.

 

Dusty's doing it out of spite, and if the front office is going to sit there and lap it up, they deserve it.

[ConstableRabbit]

Not sure if you knew, Derwood, but that stat is called isolated discipline, or isoD.

 

Isolated Power is SLG - BA, another fun thing to look at.

 

Thanks, I didn't know what IsoD was! Makes much more sense now.[/i]

[DivineBovine]

I think that it is clear that Jim Hendry has been very bad at acquiring players with a good OBP/BA differential. It just seems as if he doesn't value OBP. Even some very good players he has acquired, Aramis and Barrett for example, are have relatively bad OBP's in relation to average historically. He tends to go after players like Nomar (another one with a historically bad OBP/average differential) and shy away from players like Dunn (very good OBP/average differential). Walker is the only player on the roster who has consistently produced a decent OBP/average differential, and we kept hearing that the Cubs wanted to trade him. Murton is young, but he seems to be that type of player also. I won't give Jim too much credit for that one.

 

So, from his track record, Jim Hendry does not value OBP. Too bad its supposed to be the most important offensive statistic. And you can see that the Cubs, in the past few years, have been horrible at producing runs given the average and slugging that they have produced. Always near the bottom of the majors in walks. We can blame the coaching staff, sure. But I give a lot of the blame to Jim Hendry.

[CuseCubFan69]

Not sure if you knew, Derwood, but that stat is called isolated discipline, or isoD.

 

Isolated Power is SLG - BA, another fun thing to look at.

 

Thanks, I didn't know what IsoD was! Makes much more sense now.[/i]

 

Me either, thanks Rocket.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Not sure if you knew, Derwood, but that stat is called isolated discipline, or isoD.

 

Isolated Power is SLG - BA, another fun thing to look at.

 

Thanks, I didn't know what IsoD was! Makes much more sense now.[/i]

 

Me either, thanks Rocket.

 

:shock:

 

I'm kinda stunned. I swear we've talked (we as in entire msg board we) about isoD and isoP before, and I thought for sure Cuse knew what was up. wow....i know more then Cuse!!

 

:D

 

just teasin bud...

[BigbadB]

I think that it is clear that Jim Hendry has been very bad at acquiring players with a good OBP/BA differential. It just seems as if he doesn't value OBP. Even some very good players he has acquired, Aramis and Barrett for example, are have relatively bad OBP's in relation to average historically. He tends to go after players like Nomar (another one with a historically bad OBP/average differential) and shy away from players like Dunn (very good OBP/average differential). Walker is the only player on the roster who has consistently produced a decent OBP/average differential, and we kept hearing that the Cubs wanted to trade him. Murton is young, but he seems to be that type of player also. I won't give Jim too much credit for that one.

 

So, from his track record, Jim Hendry does not value OBP. Too bad its supposed to be the most important offensive statistic. And you can see that the Cubs, in the past few years, have been horrible at producing runs given the average and slugging that they have produced. Always near the bottom of the majors in walks. We can blame the coaching staff, sure. But I give a lot of the blame to Jim Hendry.

 

That's only one of Hendry's many faults.

 

Another fault is not recognizing the need to have depth on the roster.

 

Another fault is not recognizing the important positions of need during the offseason.

 

Another fault is how he devalues his players, rendering them worthless in trade.

 

Another fault is how he could allow the man he hired to keep trotting the worst possible line up cards out to the umpires before every game.

 

Another fault is how he masks the injuries on this team.

 

Another fault is how he masks the true problems of this team and makes ridiculous excuses for why this team sucks.

 

Other than that, he's awesome. :roll:

[Derwood]

The team we are supposedly emulating:

 

Thome - .281/.415 - 134

Dye - .301/.397 - 96

Podsednik - .247/.343 - 96

Konerko - .304/.381 - 77

Iguchi - .286/.336 - 50

Pierzynski - .320/.367 - 47

Crede - .289/.326 - 37

[TB_11]

Walker: .290/.367 - 77

Murton: .274/.345 - 71

Barrett: .298/.365 - 67

Ramirez: .248/.314 - 66

Pierre: .241/.284 - 43

Jones: .291/.327 - 36

Cedeno: .300/.326 - 26

Perez: .214/.230 - 16

 

It's kind of scary to think what Cedeno's OBP would be if he wasn't hitting .300.

 

I'd love to see what Murton's IsoD would be on a team that preached plate disclipine. In an ideal world I could see him turning into a mini-Youkilis for the Cubs.

[jwhatti]

That's only one of Hendry's many faults.

 

Another fault is not recognizing the need to have depth on the roster.

 

Another fault is not recognizing the important positions of need during the offseason.

 

Another fault is how he devalues his players, rendering them worthless in trade.

 

Another fault is how he could allow the man he hired to keep trotting the worst possible line up cards out to the umpires before every game.

 

Another fault is how he masks the injuries on this team.

 

Another fault is how he masks the true problems of this team and makes ridiculous excuses for why this team sucks.

 

Other than that, he's awesome. :roll:

 

How about another fault being that he keeps relying on Wood and Prior to be healthy and not sign another starting pitcher. Oh, I'm sorry, he did with Wade Miller. Too bad he is hurt too.

[ltb]

How about another fault being that he keeps relying on Wood and Prior to be healthy and not sign another starting pitcher. Oh, I'm sorry, he did with Wade Miller. Too bad he is hurt too.

 

i'm not one to defend jim hendry, but to his credit, he was not counting on wade miller for much of anything this year.

[dalgreen]

I think that it is clear that Jim Hendry has been very bad at acquiring players with a good OBP/BA differential. It just seems as if he doesn't value OBP. Even some very good players he has acquired, Aramis and Barrett for example, are have relatively bad OBP's in relation to average historically. He tends to go after players like Nomar (another one with a historically bad OBP/average differential) and shy away from players like Dunn (very good OBP/average differential). Walker is the only player on the roster who has consistently produced a decent OBP/average differential, and we kept hearing that the Cubs wanted to trade him. Murton is young, but he seems to be that type of player also. I won't give Jim too much credit for that one.

 

So, from his track record, Jim Hendry does not value OBP. Too bad its supposed to be the most important offensive statistic. And you can see that the Cubs, in the past few years, have been horrible at producing runs given the average and slugging that they have produced. Always near the bottom of the majors in walks. We can blame the coaching staff, sure. But I give a lot of the blame to Jim Hendry.

 

That's only one of Hendry's many faults.

 

Another fault is not recognizing the need to have depth on the roster.

 

Another fault is not recognizing the important positions of need during the offseason.

 

Another fault is how he devalues his players, rendering them worthless in trade.

 

Another fault is how he could allow the man he hired to keep trotting the worst possible line up cards out to the umpires before every game.

 

Another fault is how he masks the injuries on this team.

 

Another fault is how he masks the true problems of this team and makes ridiculous excuses for why this team sucks.

 

Other than that, he's awesome. :roll:

 

I agree, BBB. Another fault he has is he loves guys who can throw 94-96 even when they can't throw strikes.

[dalgreen]

How about another fault being that he keeps relying on Wood and Prior to be healthy and not sign another starting pitcher. Oh, I'm sorry, he did with Wade Miller. Too bad he is hurt too.

 

i'm not one to defend jim hendry, but to his credit, he was not counting on wade miller for much of anything this year.

 

Which makes it even more assinine that he didn't sign or trade for a bona fide starter. And no Glendon Rusch doesn't count.

[UBlink]

It doesn't appear to be an organization wide issue -

 

Team IsoD - Rank/Total

Iowa .077 - 3/16

DJaxx .068 - 8/10

DCubs .077 - 1/12

Chiefs .058 - 14/14

 

The contrast between Peoria and Daytona is rather dramatic.

[BigSlick]

This is a slightly off-topic question, but if any of you amateur sabermetricians know the answer, I'd like to know.

 

Say you got two players with identical OBP's

 

I'll take an arbitrary number and say .380

 

Now lets say one of the player's batting average is .270, and the other's batting average is .330

 

How much (if at all) more valuable is the player with the higher batting average?

 

Now I know you gotta factor in slugging (lets say they have the same slugging, but that would imply that the hitter batting .270 gets more XBH) here, but how much more productive is a hit than a walk when we are talking about players?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

This is a slightly off-topic question, but if any of you amateur sabermetricians know the answer, I'd like to know.

 

Say you got two players with identical OBP's

 

I'll take an arbitrary number and say .380

 

Now lets say one of the player's batting average is .270, and the other's batting average is .330

 

How much (if at all) more valuable is the player with the higher batting average?

 

Now I know you gotta factor in slugging (lets say they have the same slugging, but that would imply that the hitter batting .270 gets more XBH) here, but how much more productive is a hit than a walk when we are talking about players?

 

When all other things are equal, you take the guy who has the advantage in the one area that is not.

[UBlink]

This is a slightly off-topic question, but if any of you amateur sabermetricians know the answer, I'd like to know.

 

Say you got two players with identical OBP's

 

I'll take an arbitrary number and say .380

 

Now lets say one of the player's batting average is .270, and the other's batting average is .330

 

How much (if at all) more valuable is the player with the higher batting average?

 

Now I know you gotta factor in slugging (lets say they have the same slugging, but that would imply that the hitter batting .270 gets more XBH) here, but how much more productive is a hit than a walk when we are talking about players?

 

When all other things are equal, you take the guy who has the advantage in the one area that is not.

 

But in this case one would have an advantage in AVG and the other would have an advantage in IsoD.