Best Pitcher of this Generation

[soccer10k]

Pedro during the late 90's was the best pitcher in the league by far. He was downright nasty.

 

Overall I'd put it Clemens, Maddux, Pedro. Clemens recent years of dominance in Houston and Maddux's recent years of average perforance put Clemens over the top.

 

Side point #1: IMO, from his last year at Montreal until his near-4.00 ERA year in Boston, Pedro was the most dominant starting pitcher ever.

 

Side point #2: This kind of surprised me, but of the three, Maddux has the best post-season ERA

 

Clemens: 3.71

Maddux: 3.22

Martinez: 3.40

 

I didn't know Pedro had a better postseason ERA. I figured Clemens would have the worst of the three though. I don't know about most dominant pitcher ever, but his stretch from 1997 to 2003, like you said, was definately the most dominant stretch of pitching of our generation.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

So does that leave Schilling as a definite #5? I don't think anyone would argue that he was better than one of those top 4 pitchers, but outside of them, I don't think there was anyone better than Schilling and I thought his name deserved mention in this thread.

 

I think at this stage you have to bring up guys like Glavine, Smoltz and even Wells or Mussina.

 

I thought about Glavine, but with regards to Smoltz, it is hard to compare him to the rest because he spent 4 seasons in the bullpen. Although they were successful, was he not originally put in the bullpen because of longevity/injury concerns? Would that put him in the same boat that Pedro is in? Also, how do his stats as a reliever stack up against starting pitching statistics?

 

At the same time, though, Schilling took a long time to launch his career as a starter and it wasn't until his late 20's that he became an elite starting pitcher.

 

After looking closer at the stats, they are comparable, but Glavine has started his entire career and been the healthiest of the three over the last 20 years. He also has the most wins out of the group.

[badgercub]

From an ERA+ perspective, you'd have to put Pedro at the top. RJ and Clemens both fare better than Maddux in ERA+ and strikeout numbers......and their ability to flat-out dominate a game, so I'd put them on the next level. Maddux is probably a notch below (although you have to give him credit for his longevity).

 

The funny thing about Maddux is that he is a completely different type of pitcher. Maddux doesn't really blow anyone away with his stuff. He's just a great "pitcher". Maddux pitched to contact, didn't try to strike people out, just put the ball in the exact location, most of the time, to get the other person out. That is something I just find totally amazing.

[K-Town]

The discussion is slightly curbed by the fact that "this generation" is being generously stretched.

 

Pedro first real year as starting pitcher - 1994

Maddux first real year as starting pitcher - 1987

Clemens first real year as starting paitcher - 1984

 

Pedro is 10 years behind Clemens and 7 behind Maddux, so doesn't have the body of work to compare to others.

 

To make the discussion closer to relevant, consider (with health assumptions) a projected Pedro 7 years from with 70-100 more wins and 1000 more K's. Does that change anyones order?

 

The other thing to consider is that you stick Clemens and Maddux in with a mid-80's generation and Pedro with the mid-90's generation.

 

 

That's a good point. Pedro has made HIS mark in the era of "juiced balls & bodies". That speaks volumes for him. I think you have to easily put him at the top of the list.

[srbin84]

If Maddux finishes with a career ERA before 3, I would be surprised if he didn't win a Cy Young in the process.

[rawaction]

If Maddux finishes with a career ERA before 3, I would be surprised if he didn't win a Cy Young in the process.

 

Change your sig to 2006.

[srbin84]

If Maddux finishes with a career ERA before 3, I would be surprised if he didn't win a Cy Young in the process.

 

Change your sig to 2006.

 

Thanks.

[Andy]

If Maddux finishes with a career ERA before 3, I would be surprised if he didn't win a Cy Young in the process.

His ERA is 3.01 career currently for those curious.

[TB_11]

To make the discussion closer to relevant, consider (with health assumptions) a projected Pedro 7 years from with 70-100 more wins and 1000 more K's. Does that change anyones order?

 

If Pedro does that at a similar level of performance he's put up since the late 90s, I think he leaps past Clemens at that point. But that's a very big if.

[soccer10k]

To make the discussion closer to relevant, consider (with health assumptions) a projected Pedro 7 years from with 70-100 more wins and 1000 more K's. Does that change anyones order?

 

If Pedro does that at a similar level of performance he's put up since the late 90s, I think he leaps past Clemens at that point. But that's a very big if.

 

If Pedro pitches well and ends up with close to 300 wins, I think that could vault him higher in some people's minds. I don't think he'll get 300 though.

[srbin84]

If Maddux finishes with a career ERA before 3, I would be surprised if he didn't win a Cy Young in the process.

His ERA is 3.01 career currently for those curious.

 

If Maddux has an ERA below 3 in two or more seasons, I think he would win 18-22 in one of them, especially if they are both with this pen. The writers will automatically give him the Cy save some record breaking type performance by someone else.

[Holy Cow]

On a per-inning basis, Pedro is easily the best pitcher of all time.

 

However, he has not been as durable during individual seasons nor has he yet had the chance for longevity of the other three.

 

Koufax (Although its true that Pedro is up there)

 

As for our generation, I go

 

1. Big Unit

2. Pedro

3. Clemens

4. Maddux

[Transmogrified Tiger]

On a per-inning basis, Pedro is easily the best pitcher of all time.

 

However, he has not been as durable during individual seasons nor has he yet had the chance for longevity of the other three.

 

Koufax (Although its true that Pedro is up there)

 

As for our generation, I go

 

1. Big Unit

2. Pedro

3. Clemens

4. Maddux

 

Koufax's career high in ERA+ is 190. Pedro has 5 seasons of at least 196(avg. IP: 211).

[dalgreen]

When answering this question, can we just ask ourselves, "If we needed one win who (in their prime) would we want on the mound that day?"

 

My answer would be Rocket with Maddux a close second.

[CuseCubFan69]

I look at it like this. Which pitcher would I want to have on my team for his whole career. Although I think Pedro is the most effective pitcher of the bunch I would take Clemens and then Maddux. Maddux goes out and pitches year after year after year and always takes the ball.

[Holy Cow]

On a per-inning basis, Pedro is easily the best pitcher of all time.

 

However, he has not been as durable during individual seasons nor has he yet had the chance for longevity of the other three.

 

Koufax (Although its true that Pedro is up there)

 

As for our generation, I go

 

1. Big Unit

2. Pedro

3. Clemens

4. Maddux

 

Koufax's career high in ERA+ is 190. Pedro has 5 seasons of at least 196(avg. IP: 211).

 

Wow, I really underestimated the difference in league ERA.

[rjchapma]

Clemens

Pedro

Maddux

Johnson

[Diffusion]

If Maddux finishes with a career ERA before 3, I would be surprised if he didn't win a Cy Young in the process.

His ERA is 3.01 career currently for those curious.

 

In order to get his career ERA to under 3.00, if Maddux throws 220 IP this year, he has to post do so with a 2.58 ERA or lower. That's a pretty tough assignment: the last time Maddux had a season that good was 1998.

[Diffusion]

If Maddux finishes with a career ERA before 3, I would be surprised if he didn't win a Cy Young in the process.

His ERA is 3.01 career currently for those curious.

 

In order to get his career ERA to under 3.00, if Maddux throws 220 IP this year, he has to post do so with a 2.58 ERA or lower. That's a pretty tough assignment: the last time Maddux had a season that good was 1998.

 

Or, in other words, he needs to throw 200 innings with a 2.70 ERA from here on out. He last did that in 2002.

[goonys evil twin]

If Maddux finishes with a career ERA before 3, I would be surprised if he didn't win a Cy Young in the process.

His ERA is 3.01 career currently for those curious.

 

In order to get his career ERA to under 3.00, if Maddux throws 220 IP this year, he has to post do so with a 2.58 ERA or lower. That's a pretty tough assignment: the last time Maddux had a season that good was 1998.

 

In other words, he'd be the likely Cy Young winner, as srbin insinuated.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

When answering this question, can we just ask ourselves, "If we needed one win who (in their prime) would we want on the mound that day?"

 

My answer would be Rocket with Maddux a close second.

 

Maddux because he could handle the bat as well and is head-and-shoulders above the rest defensively. Pedro is a very close 2nd because hardly anyone could get on base. Then Clemens.

 

Their best seasons:

Pedro - 285 ERA+ / 0.737 WHIP

Maddux - 273 ERA+ / 0.896 WHIP

Clemens - 226 ERA+ / 1.030 WHIP

[Danny82]

Pedro, while he does have wicked per inning numbers, loses points in my mind because he rarely went as deep into games as guys like Clemens, Maddux, Johnson, or Schilling did.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Pedro, while he does have wicked per inning numbers, loses points in my mind because he rarely went as deep into games as guys like Clemens, Maddux, Johnson, or Schilling did.

 

IP/GS

 

Pedro: 6.87

 

Clemens: 7.01

Maddux: 6.89

Johnson: 7.00

Schilling: 7.30

 

Aside from Schilling, he's right with them. When Pedro's healthy he goes deep into games.

[Diffusion]

If Maddux finishes with a career ERA before 3, I would be surprised if he didn't win a Cy Young in the process.

His ERA is 3.01 career currently for those curious.

 

In order to get his career ERA to under 3.00, if Maddux throws 220 IP this year, he has to post do so with a 2.58 ERA or lower. That's a pretty tough assignment: the last time Maddux had a season that good was 1998.

 

In other words, he'd be the likely Cy Young winner, as srbin insinuated.

 

Sure. But it's a lot easier to think of it in terms of Maddux putting up a 2.58 ERA this year than him getting his career ERA to 2.99.

[SouthSideRyan]

Johnson doesn't have the innings to be above Maddux or Clemens. I'm not convinced Pedro's going to be able to hold up long enough to pass either of them. Pedro has had no decline phase yet, so it's really hard to compare. In order for me to put him in the conversation, he'd need ~1000 more innings at the rate or slightly below what he's performed at thus far.