Pujols = Good

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Lee>Pujols

 

Not so far.

 

Both players are off to great starts, but Pujols currently leads Lee in Runs, Hits, HR, RBI, BB, OBP, SLG & OPS.

 

As far as fielding goes...Pujols has zero errors, Lee has committed two errors (most of any first baseman in the majors).

 

The only major stat Lee leads Pujols in, is BA (Lee's .353 to Pujols' .341)

 

Right now... Pujols > Lee

 

With that said, all of this doesn't mean that much, because both players are tearing it up and aren't that far apart in most of the stats.

 

But see, none of that matters. Lee was better in the numbers than Pujols, and yet Pujols won the MVP. Since Lee's team is ahead of the Cardinals right now, Lee > Pujols. What value is Pujols to the Cardinals if Izzy blows all their games? :wink:

 

Depends which numbers you use. Pujols won the Win Shares category, which is a pretty telling stat.

 

You really fail to comprehend a comment made with tongue planted firmly in cheek.

 

But I do think Lee led in VORP and RC. Win Shares still has a strong link to team performance as it is based on the team's pythagorean standings.

[K-Town]

Lee>Pujols

 

Not so far.

 

Both players are off to great starts, but Pujols currently leads Lee in Runs, Hits, HR, RBI, BB, OBP, SLG & OPS.

 

As far as fielding goes...Pujols has zero errors, Lee has committed two errors (most of any first baseman in the majors).

 

The only major stat Lee leads Pujols in, is BA (Lee's .353 to Pujols' .341)

 

Right now... Pujols > Lee

 

With that said, all of this doesn't mean that much, because both players are tearing it up and aren't that far apart in most of the stats.

 

But see, none of that matters. Lee was better in the numbers than Pujols, and yet Pujols won the MVP. Since Lee's team is ahead of the Cardinals right now, Lee > Pujols. What value is Pujols to the Cardinals if Izzy blows all their games? :wink:

 

Depends which numbers you use. Pujols won the Win Shares category, which is a pretty telling stat.

 

You really fail to comprehend a comment made with tongue planted firmly in cheek.

 

But I do think Lee led in VORP and RC. Win Shares still has a strong link to team performance as it is based on the team's pythagorean standings.

 

 

I'm just discussing the issue.......... tongue in cheek or not. It's hard to tell with you. If someone calls you on something, then you say "I didn't mean it....... don't you understand anything"?

 

Regardless, I agree that Win Shares is related to team success, but a player's value is also relative to team success, in my opinion (some don't agree on that).

[elconq05]

I think Pujols is a good all-around player and quite possibly one of the best hitters to come along during this generation of hitters.

To be fair, it's more than just this generation.

Pujols is one of the best hitters to come along in the history of baseball. If you look at the first five years of a career, there are something like two guys in the history of the game who have comparable numbers to Pujols.

Will he keep it up? We'll have to wait and see. But he doesn't show any sign of slowing down.

 

However, his defense is above average and I think he receives way too much hype for it (thank you Tony LaRussa). He's not a butcher, but he doesn't have a vacuum cleaner in his glove.

 

Off the top of my head, Lee and Helton are the defensive class of the 1Bs in the NL. I haven't been paying enough attention elsewhere around the NL to know if there are any other really good ones, though. Ditto the AL, for that matter.

 

Errors are typically subjective in their nature and in Lee's case, my memory is that both errors he's been charged with this season were correct in their scoring (especially since one was a strangely dropped ball). I remember being shocked seeing those two errors, as a matter of fact.

 

That said, there is a lot to be said for having excellent defense on the infield. Having guys like Vina, Renteria, and Rolen (and on occasion Matheny) can really help your image, ya know? Especially considering that Rolen is probably the best defensive third baseman of this era (with great consideration for Eric Chavez). Pujols hasn't had to dig out or leap for as many errant throws as Lee, so it's been hard to judge his effectiveness in that regard.

 

Lee, on the other hand, has had to deal with some utter lunatics in the infield. Almost all Cubs fans will tell you that he's saved this team an incredible number of errors because of his extraordinary instincts and reach. I never got that impression from Pujols when he's had to make extraordinary efforts to field a bad throw.

 

How's Pujols' arm, out of curiosity? That's one of the most underrated aspects of Lee, his surprisingly strong and accurate arm. It really helps when it comes to turning the 3-6-3 DP. I'm curious as to whether Pujols' is comparable.

Pujols' arm is definately above average...but it's not the best in the league or anything. Maybe top 5 at best....that's just a guess.

 

NL 1B 2005 Fielding Stats:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding?seasonType=2&sortOrder=true&split=79&groupId=8&season=2005&qualified=null&sortColumn=fieldingPct

 

NL 1B 2006 Fielding Stats:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/stats/fielding?seasonType=2&sortOrder=true&split=79&groupId=8&season=2006&qualified=null&sortColumn=fieldingPct

 

2005 Notes:

-- Pujols did lead the league for 1B in range factor.

-- Pujols finished 4 thousandths of a point behind Lee in Fielding % (6 thousandths of a point behind the league leader Casey)

-- Pujols had more errors though...14 compared to Lee's 6. However, last year was only Pujols' 2nd year at 1B. We'll see if he improves on that this year and in the future. And actually, Pujols' numbers his first couple seasons at 1B are similar to Lee's numbers early in his career. And after looking at the numbers...Helton is superior at 1B.

[Chocolate Milk]

Pujols is flawless.

[elconq05]

Win Shares still has a strong link to team performance as it is based on the team's pythagorean standings.

 

Can you say, "overanaylzed"?

 

http://www.utexas.edu/student/utlc/class/fer/m305g/image287.gif

 

It's just baseball. :lol:

[imb]

Pujols really is amazing. I dont even hate to say it anymore.

 

I work with a bunch of Cardinal fans and we were watching the game yesterday. Did anyone not see HR number 3 coming? Everyone in the place called the walk-off, no one was surprised in the least. His swing is so beautiful.

[Outshined_One]

I think Pujols is a good all-around player and quite possibly one of the best hitters to come along during this generation of hitters.

To be fair, it's more than just this generation.

Pujols is one of the best hitters to come along in the history of baseball. If you look at the first five years of a career, there are something like two guys in the history of the game who have comparable numbers to Pujols.

Will he keep it up? We'll have to wait and see. But he doesn't show any sign of slowing down.

 

Indeed, but for now, he'll have to live with that one of the best of his generation qualifier. I'm not one to jump to conclusions, especially regarding guys who play for my favorite team's top rival. :P

 

However, his defense is above average and I think he receives way too much hype for it (thank you Tony LaRussa). He's not a butcher, but he doesn't have a vacuum cleaner in his glove.

 

Off the top of my head, Lee and Helton are the defensive class of the 1Bs in the NL. I haven't been paying enough attention elsewhere around the NL to know if there are any other really good ones, though. Ditto the AL, for that matter.

 

Errors are typically subjective in their nature and in Lee's case, my memory is that both errors he's been charged with this season were correct in their scoring (especially since one was a strangely dropped ball). I remember being shocked seeing those two errors, as a matter of fact.

 

That said, there is a lot to be said for having excellent defense on the infield. Having guys like Vina, Renteria, and Rolen (and on occasion Matheny) can really help your image, ya know? Especially considering that Rolen is probably the best defensive third baseman of this era (with great consideration for Eric Chavez). Pujols hasn't had to dig out or leap for as many errant throws as Lee, so it's been hard to judge his effectiveness in that regard.

 

Lee, on the other hand, has had to deal with some utter lunatics in the infield. Almost all Cubs fans will tell you that he's saved this team an incredible number of errors because of his extraordinary instincts and reach. I never got that impression from Pujols when he's had to make extraordinary efforts to field a bad throw.

 

How's Pujols' arm, out of curiosity? That's one of the most underrated aspects of Lee, his surprisingly strong and accurate arm. It really helps when it comes to turning the 3-6-3 DP. I'm curious as to whether Pujols' is comparable.

Pujols' arm is definately above average...but it's not the best in the league or anything. Maybe top 5 at best....that's just a guess.

 

NL 1B 2005 Fielding Stats:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding?seasonType=2&sortOrder=true&split=79&groupId=8&season=2005&qualified=null&sortColumn=fieldingPct

 

NL 1B 2006 Fielding Stats:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/stats/fielding?seasonType=2&sortOrder=true&split=79&groupId=8&season=2006&qualified=null&sortColumn=fieldingPct

 

2005 Notes:

-- Pujols did lead the league for 1B in range factor.

-- Pujols finished 4 thousandths of a point behind Lee in Fielding % (6 thousandths of a point behind the league leader Casey)

-- Pujols had more errors though...14 compared to Lee's 6. However, last year was only Pujols' 2nd year at 1B. We'll see if he improves on that this year and in the future. And actually, Pujols' numbers his first couple seasons at 1B are similar to Lee's numbers early in his career. And after looking at the numbers...Helton is superior at 1B.

 

Top 5 at best at his position you mean? Just double checking on that. I remember he played his share of OF and 3B, but wasn't sure how good his arm was.

 

Also, I always feel like defensive stats never fully encompass players. Cripes, David Eckstein was second in baseball in range factor last year among shortstops (with Jeter at #6). That just doesn't sound right. I also find it hard to believe that Sean Casey, Mark Teixeira, Darin Erstad, and Paul Konerko were all better 1B than Lee last season because they had a better fielding %. Typically I lean towards stats more than my own eyes, but defense is one of those areas where that simply is untrue.

 

And yes, Todd Helton is really good at 1B. Shame that he doesn't get more exposure, but hey, he was the one who accepted that ludicrous contract Colorado offered him.

[elconq05]

Pujols really is amazing. I dont even hate to say it anymore.

 

I work with a bunch of Cardinal fans and we were watching the game yesterday. Did anyone not see HR number 3 coming? Everyone in the place called the walk-off, no one was surprised in the least. His swing is so beautiful.

 

I was hoping....but you just don't see three home runs in a game every day.

Aside from Rolen, the rest of the team needs to chip in a bit more offensively.

[elconq05]

I think Pujols is a good all-around player and quite possibly one of the best hitters to come along during this generation of hitters.

To be fair, it's more than just this generation.

Pujols is one of the best hitters to come along in the history of baseball. If you look at the first five years of a career, there are something like two guys in the history of the game who have comparable numbers to Pujols.

Will he keep it up? We'll have to wait and see. But he doesn't show any sign of slowing down.

 

Indeed, but for now, he'll have to live with that one of the best of his generation qualifier. I'm not one to jump to conclusions, especially regarding guys who play for my favorite team's top rival. :P

 

However, his defense is above average and I think he receives way too much hype for it (thank you Tony LaRussa). He's not a butcher, but he doesn't have a vacuum cleaner in his glove.

 

Off the top of my head, Lee and Helton are the defensive class of the 1Bs in the NL. I haven't been paying enough attention elsewhere around the NL to know if there are any other really good ones, though. Ditto the AL, for that matter.

 

Errors are typically subjective in their nature and in Lee's case, my memory is that both errors he's been charged with this season were correct in their scoring (especially since one was a strangely dropped ball). I remember being shocked seeing those two errors, as a matter of fact.

 

That said, there is a lot to be said for having excellent defense on the infield. Having guys like Vina, Renteria, and Rolen (and on occasion Matheny) can really help your image, ya know? Especially considering that Rolen is probably the best defensive third baseman of this era (with great consideration for Eric Chavez). Pujols hasn't had to dig out or leap for as many errant throws as Lee, so it's been hard to judge his effectiveness in that regard.

 

Lee, on the other hand, has had to deal with some utter lunatics in the infield. Almost all Cubs fans will tell you that he's saved this team an incredible number of errors because of his extraordinary instincts and reach. I never got that impression from Pujols when he's had to make extraordinary efforts to field a bad throw.

 

How's Pujols' arm, out of curiosity? That's one of the most underrated aspects of Lee, his surprisingly strong and accurate arm. It really helps when it comes to turning the 3-6-3 DP. I'm curious as to whether Pujols' is comparable.

Pujols' arm is definately above average...but it's not the best in the league or anything. Maybe top 5 at best....that's just a guess.

 

NL 1B 2005 Fielding Stats:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding?seasonType=2&sortOrder=true&split=79&groupId=8&season=2005&qualified=null&sortColumn=fieldingPct

 

NL 1B 2006 Fielding Stats:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/stats/fielding?seasonType=2&sortOrder=true&split=79&groupId=8&season=2006&qualified=null&sortColumn=fieldingPct

 

2005 Notes:

-- Pujols did lead the league for 1B in range factor.

-- Pujols finished 4 thousandths of a point behind Lee in Fielding % (6 thousandths of a point behind the league leader Casey)

-- Pujols had more errors though...14 compared to Lee's 6. However, last year was only Pujols' 2nd year at 1B. We'll see if he improves on that this year and in the future. And actually, Pujols' numbers his first couple seasons at 1B are similar to Lee's numbers early in his career. And after looking at the numbers...Helton is superior at 1B.

 

Top 5 at best at his position you mean? Just double checking on that. I remember he played his share of OF and 3B, but wasn't sure how good his arm was.

Yeah, sorry...top 5 at 1B. Just a guess off the top of my head though without really analyzing it.

 

Also, I always feel like defensive stats never fully encompass players. Cripes, David Eckstein was second in baseball in range factor last year among shortstops (with Jeter at #6). That just doesn't sound right. I also find it hard to believe that Sean Casey, Mark Teixeira, Darin Erstad, and Paul Konerko were all better 1B than Lee last season because they had a better fielding %. Typically I lean towards stats more than my own eyes, but defense is one of those areas where that simply is untrue.

It's always best to analyze a player with your own eyes as opposed to stats. But it's impossible to watch everyone and see everything. So we rely on stats to fill in the blanks.

You're right...in a lot of cases, stats never really tell the whole story.

 

And yes, Todd Helton is really good at 1B. Shame that he doesn't get more exposure, but hey, he was the one who accepted that ludicrous contract Colorado offered him.

Yeah, poor Helton. :wink:

[Big Z 38]

Edmonds follows Pujols, b/c crap always follows a poo-hole :lol:

[illiniguy]

Pujols really is amazing. I dont even hate to say it anymore.

 

I work with a bunch of Cardinal fans and we were watching the game yesterday. Did anyone not see HR number 3 coming? Everyone in the place called the walk-off, no one was surprised in the least. His swing is so beautiful.

When is he going to start getting the Bonds treatment? Whywould you ever pitch to him in that situation? I wonder if the Reds even wanted to win that game.

[elconq05]

Edmonds follows Pujols, b/c crap always follows a poo-hole :lol:

 

Didn't you already post this in another thread?

Are you posting it again because nobody laughed the first time? :wink:

[indifferent]

Pujols really is amazing. I dont even hate to say it anymore.

 

I work with a bunch of Cardinal fans and we were watching the game yesterday. Did anyone not see HR number 3 coming? Everyone in the place called the walk-off, no one was surprised in the least. His swing is so beautiful.

When is he going to start getting the Bonds treatment? Whywould you ever pitch to him in that situation? I wonder if the Reds even wanted to win that game.

 

Neither team wanted to win that game. Luckily, Pujols did.

[Laura]

Edmonds follows Pujols, b/c crap always follows a poo-hole :lol:

 

Please keep a lid on the bathroom humor. Thanks.

[ManEatingTarp]

Neither team wanted to win that game. Luckily, Pujols did.

 

That pretty much says it all right there.

This team would be in sorry shape without him.

[Outshined_One]

Please keep a lid on the bathroom humor. Thanks.

 

What kind of lid? O:)

[Laura]

Please keep a lid on the bathroom humor. Thanks.

 

What kind of lid? O:)

 

http://www.123safe.com/scstore/graphics/lidlok.jpg

[ManEatingTarp]

:lmao: :lmao:

[Brian34Cook]

Yep he's good.. 2 run HR in the 1st.. 4 straight at bats with a HR.. ties Major League Record!

[FergieJ31]

Yep he's good.. 2 run HR in the 1st.. 4 straight at bats with a HR.. ties Major League Record!

 

:shock: Albert is a monster

[Brian34Cook]

But it ends on a 3-1 double ripped to center by Albert :lol:

[FergieJ31]

But it ends on a 3-1 double ripped to center by Albert :lol:

 

meh. only a double ... Pujols is slumping :)

[BigSlick]

Discuss

 

Uh..

 

Dunn is better.

 

Damnit I screwed it up.

 

I'm the Cubs fan, right?

[Keener98]

I repeat, Encarnacion is still better

[BigSlick]

I repeat, Encarnacion is still better

Edwin?>