Soriano "to make leftfield decision"

[Geech]

You seem to be stuck on what are essentially irrelevant stats. RBI and Runs Scored are virtually useless in determining an individual hitter's actual value. Those stats are the only ones that make Soriano look clearly more productive than Wilkerson, and certainly the only way that Andruw Jones could be called the best offensive OF in the NL.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I guess what I'm saying is that, even with his subpar OBP (high strikeouts and almost non-existent walks) he has still managed to be among the most productive players in the ML (certainly at his position). The article also points out that, quite possibly, Soriano would only be second to Andruw Jones offensively among NL OF (if he makes the switch).

 

Entirely untrue, especially the part about the NL OF. Jones was 5th in NL OF's and OPS, and the large OBP differential between him and the players immediately below him(Edmonds, Giles, Burrell, Jenkins, Abreu) makes it even worse for Andruw. Soriano's OPS last year barely puts him in the top 15 of NL OF's, worse if you consider players with 400 PA's or more. His best season ever barely puts him in the top 10, and outside it if 400 PA guys are included.

[Blueheart05]

I guess what I'm saying is that, even with his subpar OBP (high strikeouts and almost non-existent walks) he has still managed to be among the most productive players in the ML (certainly at his position). The article also points out that, quite possibly, Soriano would only be second to Andruw Jones offensively among NL OF (if he makes the switch).

 

Entirely untrue, especially the part about the NL OF. Jones was 5th in NL OF's and OPS, and the large OBP differential between him and the players immediately below him(Edmonds, Giles, Burrell, Jenkins, Abreu) makes it even worse for Andruw. Soriano's OPS last year barely puts him in the top 15 of NL OF's, worse if you consider players with 400 PA's or more. His best season ever barely puts him in the top 10, and outside it if 400 PA guys are included.

 

LOL, thanks for the info. I certainly didn't check the numbers on it. I was going purely by what the author wrote. :oops:

[CardsFanInChiTown]

The Nats are going to have a hard time finding a team to take on 10m.

[Blueheart05]

"We believe it is the club's right, based on the basic agreement, based on his contract, that a player needs to play the position that the manager wants to put him in to win, regardless of who that player is," general manager Jim Bowden said minutes after the start of last night's game. "He refused to do that today."

The Nationals hope to have the matter resolved within the next 48 hours. Bowden and Robinson said Soriano again will be in the lineup in left field for the team's next scheduled game, tomorrow afternoon against the Cardinals in Jupiter, Fla. If Soriano refuses to play, Bowden said the club will ask Major League Baseball to place him on the "disqualified list," under which he would lose his salary, not accrue any major league service time, lose his opportunity to become a free agent at season's end and remain the property of the Nationals.

 

Who knows, the Nats might look to acquire another player while letting Soriano go unpaid for the year. If that happens, Soriano will definitely be the loser; he won't accrue time so he won't be a free agent at the end of the year and he won't get paid. LOL, I hope they disqualify him and get someone else to play LF.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

"We believe it is the club's right, based on the basic agreement, based on his contract, that a player needs to play the position that the manager wants to put him in to win, regardless of who that player is," general manager Jim Bowden said minutes after the start of last night's game. "He refused to do that today."

The Nationals hope to have the matter resolved within the next 48 hours. Bowden and Robinson said Soriano again will be in the lineup in left field for the team's next scheduled game, tomorrow afternoon against the Cardinals in Jupiter, Fla. If Soriano refuses to play, Bowden said the club will ask Major League Baseball to place him on the "disqualified list," under which he would lose his salary, not accrue any major league service time, lose his opportunity to become a free agent at season's end and remain the property of the Nationals.

 

Who knows, the Nats might look to acquire another player while letting Soriano go unpaid for the year. If that happens, Soriano will definitely be the loser; he won't accrue time so he won't be a free agent at the end of the year and he won't get paid. LOL, I hope they disqualify him and get someone else to play LF.

 

I would LOVE to see that happen. Selfish puke.

[Outshined_One]

Looks like Brendan Harris might get his shot after all...

[frostwyrm]

If you think about it, it is sorta embarrassing to be a starter at the same position as Todd Hollandsworth was last opening day.

[TrueBlueCubFan]

I heard this on XM home plate last night: If Soriano does indeed refuse to play 2nd base & passes on 10 mil. & the Nats put him on the unable to play list, he DOES NOT become a FA after this season & will still owe the Nats 1 season of service. Sit out the whole season & make nothing & put off FA for another year? or play LF for the Nats & make 10 mil & file for FA after the 06' season? Sounds like a very easy decision for me!

 

GET OFF YOUR EGO TRIP ALFONSO!

[CuseCubFan69]

The Nats are going to have a hard time finding a team to take on 10m.

 

The Cubs will send Welly and Sing and pay the whole salary.

[Derwood]

I heard this on XM home plate last night: If Soriano does indeed refuse to play 2nd base & passes on 10 mil. & the Nats put him on the unable to play list, he DOES NOT become a FA after this season & will still owe the Nats 1 season of service. Sit out the whole season & make nothing & put off FA for another year? or play LF for the Nats & make 10 mil & file for FA after the 06' season? Sounds like a very easy decision for me!

 

GET OFF YOUR EGO TRIP ALFONSO!

 

I said it before, I'll say it again. The Nats should treat this like the Eagles treated T.O. No, you can't play and no, we won't pay you and no, we won't release or trade you so sit down and shut up.

[Jehrico]

2B is very different from the OF. It's not just simply catching the ball. Reading batters and playing the ball is a skill that varies by position.

 

It's a skill that he has demonstrated that he does not have. The Nat'ls are giving him a chance to prove he can field another position.

 

Supposedly the Rangers didn't let the Nats talk to Soriano before agreeing to the deal (knowing he'd tell them he wouldn't move and kill the deal). Bowden took this into consideration and then went ahead anyway. He gambled and lost.

Agreed. Bowden is an idiot. Glad he's still running another NL club.

 

What has Soriano done other than keep up his same stance toward a move to the OF? Bowden is the moron who brought this conflict up. Others were smart enough to skirt the issue and factor in Soriano's crappy 2B defense into the equation.

Soriano's hurting his own value than the Nats, IMO. I doubt there were many suitors interested in him as a 2b for this coming offseason. He may have increased the number of potential suitors by showing a little flexibility. He's most likely knocked off several potential suitors for this coming offseason (assuming he agrees to play LF and doesn't stop his FA clock).

 

You don't sympathize with Soriano b/c he makes more money than you do? The organization makes much more than Soriano, fwiw.

In this case, while I think Bowden is an idiot and made a bad trade (it would have been a bad move even without the 2b controversy), I have less sympathy for Soriano. They're trying to what gives them the best chance to win, which in this case, involves Soriano in the OF. Soriano isn't doing what's best for winning, he's doing what's best for himself.

[Jehrico]

I heard this on XM home plate last night: If Soriano does indeed refuse to play 2nd base & passes on 10 mil. & the Nats put him on the unable to play list, he DOES NOT become a FA after this season & will still owe the Nats 1 season of service. Sit out the whole season & make nothing & put off FA for another year? or play LF for the Nats & make 10 mil & file for FA after the 06' season? Sounds like a very easy decision for me!

 

GET OFF YOUR EGO TRIP ALFONSO!

 

I said it before, I'll say it again. The Nats should treat this like the Eagles treated T.O. No, you can't play and no, we won't pay you and no, we won't release or trade you so sit down and shut up.

 

The Eagles are my second favorite NFL team now (only behind 'Da Bears, of course).

[SouthSideRyan]

I hope the Nats put him on the DQ list, just cause I'm really interested to see what the verdict would be when the MLBPA appeals the decision. It'd be quite a landmark decision as there has to be some sort of limit to what you can force a player to do. To one extreme you could have a manager running a pitcher out there every other day to rack up 400 innings on the year and ruin his career or move a fast guy to catcher ruining his legs(These things sound stupid, but GMs/Manages do lots of stupid things) To the other extreme you have the fact that many of the best players are drafted as SS and it just doesn't make sense to not move guys around.

[CubinNY]

I hope the Nats put him on the DQ list, just cause I'm really interested to see what the verdict would be when the MLBPA appeals the decision. It'd be quite a landmark decision as there has to be some sort of limit to what you can force a player to do. To one extreme you could have a manager running a pitcher out there every other day to rack up 400 innings on the year and ruin his career or move a fast guy to catcher ruining his legs(These things sound stupid, but GMs/Manages do lots of stupid things) To the other extreme you have the fact that many of the best players are drafted as SS and it just doesn't make sense to not move guys around.

 

I think there has to be some sort of mutual agreement. For his part Alph didn't have any say in what team he was traded to. That is all well and good, but if I were him I'd want a say in what position I'd want to play.

 

I guess it all comes down to one's personal philosohy in these matters. I have a lot of friends who were pissed at Eli Manning refusing to play for San Deigo. I had no problem with it. I don't have much problem with Alph's decision here either.

 

But what a stupid decision by the Nats to trade for a guy and then try to move him to another position without first finding out if he wants to or can play that position.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't have much problem with Alph's decision here either.

 

Then he's got to live with the consequences.

 

The CBA dictates that players after signing their first contract and before free agency don't have a say in where they play or what position they play.

[CubinNY]

I don't have much problem with Alph's decision here either.

 

Then he's got to live with the consequences.

 

The CBA dictates that players after signing their first contract and before free agency don't have a say in where they play or what position they play.

 

And so does Bowden. The whole situation is a disaster.

[BigbadB]

But what a stupid decision by the Nats to trade for a guy and then try to move him to another position without first finding out if he wants to or can play that position.

 

And if Jacque Jones comes out in the newspapers tomorrow that he only wants to play CF and refuses to play RF, do you still think that a player should have that kind of authority to make on field baseball decisions?

 

Or are you basing your position on the fact that Soriano has expressed his desire to stay at 2nd base or should all teams discuss what position players want to or would be willing to play before trades are made?

[CubinNY]

But what a stupid decision by the Nats to trade for a guy and then try to move him to another position without first finding out if he wants to or can play that position.

 

And if Jacque Jones comes out in the newspapers tomorrow that he only wants to play CF and refuses to play RF, do you still think that a player should have that kind of authority to make on field baseball decisions?

 

Or are you basing your position on the fact that Soriano has expressed his desire to stay at 2nd base or should all teams discuss what position players want to or would be willing to play before trades are made?

 

It seems to me that an organization would want a guy to be happy in his position with the team. If I'm a GM and I want to move a guy to a new position I'd ask him. If he says no, I try to trade him for as much as I can get. If the guy is not on my team but another team has agreed to trade him I talk with the guy. If he is reluctant I don't make the trade.

 

What useful purpose could there be for a guy to be on a team and not be happy with the postion he is plyaing? I don't belive in the chemistry argument at all, but I want guys who want to play for me.

 

I'm not saying Alph is right and Bowden is wrong.

 

If Jones said he wanted to play CF and not RF I'd be pretty happy b/c I would hope Hendry would get rid of him. :D

[goonys evil twin]

I'm not saying Alph is right and Bowden is wrong.

 

You did say: "I don't have much problem with Alph's decision here either. "

 

I think Bowden was foolish for making the trade (even if Soriano was to move), but Soriano is still a dirtbag of a player for pulling this crap.

 

If Soriano was drafted by Washington, and refused to sign, that's one thing. But when you sign that contract that starts guaranteeing you money, you relinquish the right to choose when and where you play until you hit free agency.

[CubinNY]

I'm not saying Alph is right and Bowden is wrong.

 

You did say: "I don't have much problem with Alph's decision here either. "

 

I think Bowden was foolish for making the trade (even if Soriano was to move), but Soriano is still a dirtbag of a player for pulling this crap.

 

If Soriano was drafted by Washington, and refused to sign, that's one thing. But when you sign that contract that starts guaranteeing you money, you relinquish the right to choose when and where you play until you hit free agency.

 

I see your point. I guess Alph should have pulled a Sheffield and said something to the effect, "If I'm traded and they try to move me to the outfiled, I won't be happy and if I'm not happy I might not play very well."

 

I think Alph's reluctance to move to the outfiled is part of the reason why the Yankees traded him in the first place.

[Jehrico]

I don't have much problem with Alph's decision here either.

 

Then he's got to live with the consequences.

 

The CBA dictates that players after signing their first contract and before free agency don't have a say in where they play or what position they play.

 

And so does Bowden. The whole situation is a disaster.

 

Not for everyone. I'm glad this is happening to another NL team. Although, I'd be happier if it were Jocketty in the middle of this dilemma instaed of Bowden, if you know what I mean. But then again, Jocketty's smart enough not to get into this kind of situation.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Wow, the Nationals are really trying to spin this as Soriano's fault. What a bunch of jerks.

 

Supposedly he "refused to play LF" the other day and left LF open to start the game so a change had to be made. Now we find out that the roster for the starting 9 didn't even have Soriano's name on it. Soriano is the bad guy. It wouldn't even be a big deal if the Nationals coaches had taken the time to find out what happened before talking the media and casting Soriano as Mr. Selfish.

 

Soriano now says he thought he was not supposed to start the game, because when he looked at the lineup in the clubhouse, he was not part of the starting nine. He said he didn't know he was supposed to play against the Dodgers until Nick Johnson gave him a call during the game.

 

According to two baseball sources, bench coach Eddie Rodriguez wrote two lineups on Monday. The one without Soriano's name in the lineup was on the clubhouse bulletin board for most of the afternoon.

 

"With me, I'm thinking I'm out of the lineup," Soriano said. "Before they made the lineup, I told them if I'm not playing second base, I do not want to be in the lineup. Nick Johnson called me at that time and he told me that they had me in the lineup, but [nobody showed up]. Now I look like the bad guy."

 

Soriano was acquired from the Rangers on Dec. 7 for o

 

link

[CubfaninCA]

Bowden = idiot. He didn't want to move to the OF in NY or Texas. What made Bowden think he'd want to move once he's in Washington.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Bowden = idiot. He didn't want to move to the OF in NY or Texas. What made Bowden think he'd want to move once he's in Washington.

 

Because.

 

 

 

:lol: