David and Goliath: Closers

[Scott G. F.]

This is the first time since before Alfonseca "the octopus" did the splits during spring training that the Cubs have their closer going in to the season. I don't know why but Dempster strikes me as a wolf in Joe Boroski's clothing. He's not an over powering closer. He's what I deem a "David" type closer. Other "David" types are Danny Beaz, Danny Graves (in his day), and Brad Lidge. The "Daivd" types doesn’t over power you or intimidate you, their crafty and sly.

The goliath types are more like Gange, Lee Smith, and Rod Beck. They try and intimidate and over power you. Bruce Sutter’s best pitch was his change up and not his heat.

 

Why bring this up? Because I'm not really sure Dempster is the total answer. I don't see Dempster coming in the game and thinking "oh this is over". I think more like "oh god I hope he doesn't blow this". If you've been a Cubs fan for a while you'll know what I'm talking about. When Big Lee Smith got up it was over. When Randy Meyers began throwing it was over. Rod Beck had that "it's over" quality in his closer role.

 

Dempster doesn't have that quality. I believe he might know that and uses that to is advantage by getting the batter thinking aggressively and not thinking base hit.

 

I'd like NSBB nation to chime in on this and see what you think.

[goonys evil twin]

Brad Lidge is 100 times more overpower than Beck, who epitomized crafty and sly.

[SeldomSeen]

Brad Lidge is filthy. Definitely Goliath.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I believe Lidge can hit 98-99 with his fastball. That's more overpowering than crafty or sly in my book.

[UK1679666180]

Lidge's slider (except when hanging to Pujols) is one of the best pitches in baseball, then his upper 90s FB makes him one of the most difficult to hit based on pure stuff.

 

Sutter's best pitch was the splitter.

[BigbadB]

Yep, Lidge is definitely Goliath. In fact, he's probably Goliath more than any other current closer. Wagner a close 2nd?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I can't see how anyone isn't intimadated by Lidge. That fastball-slider combination is filthy.

[UK1679666180]

Yep, Lidge is definitely Goliath. In fact, he's probably Goliath more than any other current closer. Wagner a close 2nd?

 

He's in your SoCal area, just North in Anaheim.

 

I love Rodriguez.

[goonys evil twin]

As for Dempster, I'd put him between the two groups. He's not a junkballer getting lucky, and he's not dominating people. But he can be pretty unhittable at times, and he can be fairly effective.

[rawaction]

Yep, Lidge is definitely Goliath. In fact, he's probably Goliath more than any other current closer. Wagner a close 2nd?

 

He's in your SoCal area, just North in Anaheim.

 

I love Rodriguez.

 

I think Wagner's more overpowering than both, simply because he throws with his left arm.

[TB_11]

I would disagree that Beck had the "it's over" quality. Even though he had 53 saves for us in 1998, there were too many times he would let on a baserunner or two before he got the outs.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Rod Beck was a better Joe Borowski. Control was a huge part of his game. Someone like Lidge is all about stuff. Big difference.

[BigbadB]

Of course, the closer who has probably put the most guys on the DL from his pitches is Trevor Hoffman. That off speed pitch of his can make a guy throw his back out trying to back track on their swing.

[Magnetic Curses]

dempster gets a lot of strikeouts and a ton of groundballs, i'm not sure what you want out of him. he was about as rock-steady as any cubs closer has ever been last season.

[rawaction]

Of course, the closer who has probably put the most guys on the DL from his pitches is Trevor Hoffman. That off speed pitch of his can make a guy throw his back out trying to back track on their swing.

 

Hoffman is the most fun closer to watch for me. Especially in the mid-90s when he did have the heat. He was the perfect closer.

[goonys evil twin]

dempster gets a lot of strikeouts and a ton of groundballs, i'm not sure what you want out of him. he was about as rock-steady as any cubs closer has ever been last season.

 

I'd want more strikeouts and fewer walks. He gets a good amount of K's, but it's well below the number that dominant closers have.

 

I'd say Joe Bo was better in 2003. Joe didn't walk guys and struck out a few more.

[Magnetic Curses]

dempster gets a lot of strikeouts and a ton of groundballs, i'm not sure what you want out of him. he was about as rock-steady as any cubs closer has ever been last season.

 

I'd want more strikeouts and fewer walks. He gets a good amount of K's, but it's well below the number that dominant closers have.

 

I'd say Joe Bo was better in 2003. Joe didn't walk guys and struck out a few more.

 

yeah, i'd like to see at least a k per inning from him, but his GB/FB ratio is completely ridiculous. just considering that, i doubt he's a fluke.

[Jehrico]

Rob Nen before he got hurt was an intimidator, a goliath. Beck was lucky to hit 90, definitely a david.

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

Say what you want about Borowski, but I'll be looking for him at the end of my fantasy draft...

[BigbadB]

I like Borowski and he will likely get some save opportunities, but with the line up Florida is throwing out there this year, I wouldn't count on him to get very much work. The starting pitching has a chance to be very below average to very bad outside of Dontrelle, and the offense is probably not going to be of much help.

[MPrior]

You guys may be overlooking Rivera as the most dominant. He really only has one completely filthy pitch, but that pitch (his cut fastball) is about as filthy as they come. It's pretty much unhittable. And yeah, he may be on the near side of his heyday, but still. Any discussion of dominating closers has to include him (as much as I despise the Yankees).

[goonys evil twin]

You guys may be overlooking Rivera as the most dominant. He really only has one completely filthy pitch, but that pitch (his cut fastball) is about as filthy as they come. It's pretty much unhittable. And yeah, he may be on the near side of his heyday, but still. Any discussion of dominating closers has to include him (as much as I despise the Yankees).

 

Of course he's included. I think it's debatable whether he's truly the most dominant, but he's in the picture, and probably will be for a couple years.

[erik316wttn]

I really don't like the David vs. Golliath comparison.

 

People tend to forget that David won.

[imb]

have you ever actually seen any of those closers pitch?

[erik316wttn]

have you ever actually seen any of those closers pitch?

 

I have. I'm not debating the fact that some are better than others, or some throw harder, etc. I just don't like the David vs. Golliath comparision (or at any time, rather) because people always misuse it.