Wouldn't Dunn Look Nice in Leftfield?

[USSoccer]

Dopirak, Pie, Williams and Hill for Dunn and Freel.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Dopirak, Pie, Williams and Hill for Dunn and Freel.

 

My guess is that the Reds would want to deal Dunn and Freel in different deals to maximize the return.

 

Trading Freel makes little sense unless it brings back players they couldn't get through trading Dunn alone.

 

My guess is that they could expect Pie, Williams, Hill for Dunn alone. Whether or not they believe Freel is worth Dopirak or not, I don't know, but I'd suspect that they could trade him somewhere else for a high prospect pitcher.

[USSoccer]

Dopirak, Pie, Williams and Hill for Dunn and Freel.

 

My guess is that the Reds would want to deal Dunn and Freel in different deals to maximize the return.

 

Trading Freel makes little sense unless it brings back players they couldn't get through trading Dunn alone.

 

My guess is that they could expect Pie, Williams, Hill for Dunn alone. Whether or not they believe Freel is worth Dopirak or not, I don't know, but I'd suspect that they could trade him somewhere else for a high prospect pitcher.

 

I'd do Williams, Pie and Hill for Dunn. Freel is like a luxury-we don't really need him, seeing as we have enough middle IF as it is.

 

I wonder if Cinci would want a Marshall or Gallagher instead of Hill, though.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Dopirak, Pie, Williams and Hill for Dunn and Freel.

 

My guess is that the Reds would want to deal Dunn and Freel in different deals to maximize the return.

 

Trading Freel makes little sense unless it brings back players they couldn't get through trading Dunn alone.

 

My guess is that they could expect Pie, Williams, Hill for Dunn alone. Whether or not they believe Freel is worth Dopirak or not, I don't know, but I'd suspect that they could trade him somewhere else for a high prospect pitcher.

 

I'd do Williams, Pie and Hill for Dunn. Freel is like a luxury-we don't really need him, seeing as we have enough middle IF as it is.

 

I wonder if Cinci would want a Marshall or Gallagher instead of Hill, though.

 

I don't know. My guess is that they would rather replace Williams with Marmol, Marshall, or Gallagher.

 

I could see them asking for two of our top minor league pitchers along with Pie and then wanting either Novoa, Wuertz, or Wellemeyer just for Dunn.

[TXCubsFan]

Frankly, Dunn would have more value to an AL team where he could play 1B/DH, which would limit his defensive liabilities. I DON'T see a trade for him within the NL Central.

[UK1679666180]

Also, I don't see Dunn having as much value in Hendry's or his scouts/associates eyes as many around here have.

[CubsWin]

Do you realize how hard it is to sustain a .860-.890 OPS is?

 

Especially for a guy like Pie who has Patterson-esque plate discipline? Pie is still ridicuously raw, yes his performance this year was nice, but it does not make him a lock for anything.

 

That year for Dunn you keep bringing up...his age 20 season where his OPS was lower than Pie's and a level lower...you forget to mention some more important aspects in a minor league hitters numbers. Dunn walked 100 times that year, and K'd 101 times. He showed a great eye even then.

Pie's 16 to 53 K:BB in half a seasons AB's don't inspire much confidence. Over a full season thats what...maybe 35 BB's and 110 K's? Not very impressive.

 

Pie is no lock to be even an average player in the majors, to balk on a young, proven great hitter because he has a [really] small chance to MAYBE be more productive just doesn't seem right does it?

 

I'd definitely give up Pie in a deal for a Dunn or someone like Dunn.

No, actually I didn't forget to mention that. It was earlier in the thread so you probably missed it, but you can go back and find the post if you like.

 

I also don't remember calling Pie a lock to do anything in the majors. I have acknowledged more than once in this thread that not trading him for Dunn would be a risky thing to do.

 

Now that we have cleared that up, here is what I am saying. Pie could be more valuable than Dunn given his ability to play CF and play it at a gold glove level with an excellent arm and great speed on the basepaths. He is also 5-6 years younger and isn't about to become very, very expensive.

 

The question we have yet to discuss is how likely is it for Pie to maintain an OPS above .850 in the major leagues, and if he did that, keeping in mind all of the other advantages over Dunn I just listed, would that make him a more valuable player?

 

The answer to the 2nd question I believe is yes. The answer to the first question is the one I'm most interested in. You think his chances of being that kind of hitter are "really small". Well, he appears to have the power to maintain an OPS above .850, the question is does he have the batter's eye and plate discipline? And at the age of 21, is it too late for him to develop those abilities?

 

Your thoughts, Cubs fans?

[Vinestal]

CubsWin brings up a great point about Dunn becoming very very expensive. We already have expensive players in so many possitions, have you seen our payroll numbers? Granted much of that money has been spent unwisely, but at some point we have to fill more roster spots with inexpensive talent (see the Atlanta Braves) from the minors instead of expensive free agents. If we were producing more quality prospects we wouldn't have to sign mediocre players like JJ to 3 year deals for more than they are worth. While I'd love to have Dunn, Id rather produce a player from our own system that is as good or better. Is Pie a sure thing? No, but there is a limit to how much the Tribune is prepared to spend on payroll Im sure, and Id rather lock up Prior and Zambrano to multi-year deals than have to spend money on possitions we could have developed through our minors.

 

Im really looking forward to seeing what Pie can do, Im hoping he is young enough to refine his batters eye and start drawing more walks with less strike outs.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

The question we have yet to discuss is how likely is it for Pie to maintain an OPS above .850 in the major leagues, and if he did that, keeping in mind all of the other advantages over Dunn I just listed, would that make him a more valuable player?

 

The answer to the 2nd question I believe is yes. The answer to the first question is the one I'm most interested in. You think his chances of being that kind of hitter are "really small". Well, he appears to have the power to maintain an OPS above .850, the question is does he have the batter's eye and plate discipline? And at the age of 21, is it too late for him to develop those abilities?

 

Your thoughts, Cubs fans?

 

Certainly if Pie is playing CF and maintaining an 850 OPS consistently, then yes, I'll acknowledge that he could be just as valuable if not more so than Dunn.

 

As to whether or not he can maintain such an OPS, I'd put the chances around 30%. His plate discipline leaves a lot to be desired. Can players improve on this? Yes, but it is a rare thing. He is such an athlete, that I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility, but he has a hard row ahead of him in doing so.

[rocket]

The Reds signed Scott Hatteberg.

 

Can you say first base logjam?!?!

[SouthSideRyan]

The Reds signed Scott Hatteberg.

 

Can you say first base logjam?!?!

 

I can also say poorly run organization.

[JWCUB]

The Reds signed Scott Hatteberg.

 

Can you say first base logjam?!?!

 

Makes trading Dunn even more plauseable. :D

[Neuby]

I don't care how much Pie is going to cost of the next few years and very very expensive Dunn is. Dunn is a difference maker.

 

Pierre

Walker

Lee

Dunn

Ramirez

Murton

Cedeno

Barrett

 

We have a deep bullpen , a couple of guys waiting at Iowa, and two Aces when healthy in Miller and Wood who projected to be ready May or June Maddux in shape and motivated to get a ton of innings this year.

[BigbadB]

The Reds signed Scott Hatteberg.

 

Can you say first base logjam?!?!

 

Not if Griffey has one of his typical injury filled seasons.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Adam Dunn agrees to a two-year, $18.5 million deal

 

He's not going anywhere... for now :wink:

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Adam Dunn agrees to a two-year, $18.5 million deal

 

He's not going anywhere... for now :wink:

 

Now he's too expensive for them! :P

[Mark Priors Calves]

Dunn signed a 2 year 18.5 million dollar deal today.

 

2006: 7.5 mil

2007: 10.5 mil

2008: 13 mil Club Option

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Adam Dunn agrees to a two-year, $18.5 million deal

 

He's not going anywhere... for now :wink:

 

All that does is buys out his arbitration years. It really doesn't mean much. It could increase his trade value as now teams know what he will cost in dollars for next season as well.

 

Though I will concede the comments made by Krivsky seem to indicate that Dunn is in the team's long term plans.

[NorthsideAvenger]

I don't care how much Pie is going to cost of the next few years and very very expensive Dunn is. Dunn is a difference maker.

 

Dunn HASN'T done anything (no pun intended) to show he is a "difference maker". He hasn't improve the Reds since he's been there (granted not many players could improve that team). Granted Dunn hits a few out, and walk a few times, but in no way would I consider Dunn a "difference maker" until he proves it.

[VVMattVV]

I don't care how much Pie is going to cost of the next few years and very very expensive Dunn is. Dunn is a difference maker.

 

Dunn HASN'T done anything (no pun intended) to show he is a "difference maker". He hasn't improve the Reds since he's been there (granted not many players could improve that team). Granted Dunn hits a few out, and walk a few times, but in no way would I consider Dunn a "difference maker" until he proves it.

 

Actually, the Reds have had a pretty good offense with Dunn. Its their pathetic pitching that has done them in. I don't see any way you can count the Reds failures against Dunn.

 

Dunn's .900+ OPS has proven him as a difference maker.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I don't care how much Pie is going to cost of the next few years and very very expensive Dunn is. Dunn is a difference maker.

 

Dunn HASN'T done anything (no pun intended) to show he is a "difference maker". He hasn't improve the Reds since he's been there (granted not many players could improve that team). Granted Dunn hits a few out, and walk a few times, but in no way would I consider Dunn a "difference maker" until he proves it.

 

What else exactly would he have to do to be a difference maker?

[Yeti]

Look, I'd like to have Adam Dunn in our outfield as much as anyone else but...

 

http://www.users.muohio.edu/rothkr/not%20this%20again%20copy.jpg

 

edited, happy?

i agree with this guy...

 

i mean, the guys been with us for almost a year and has maybe 40 or so posts....one being this statement... :idea:

[NorthsideAvenger]

I don't care how much Pie is going to cost of the next few years and very very expensive Dunn is. Dunn is a difference maker.

 

Dunn HASN'T done anything (no pun intended) to show he is a "difference maker". He hasn't improve the Reds since he's been there (granted not many players could improve that team). Granted Dunn hits a few out, and walk a few times, but in no way would I consider Dunn a "difference maker" until he proves it.

 

What else exactly would he have to do to be a difference maker?

 

How about becoming....I don't know....a COMPLETE player? Or...helping the Reds WIN MORE GAMES....maybe.....doing those things. No doubt Dunn is a GIFTED POWER THREAT, but having power doesn't mean he is a "difference maker."

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I don't care how much Pie is going to cost of the next few years and very very expensive Dunn is. Dunn is a difference maker.

 

Dunn HASN'T done anything (no pun intended) to show he is a "difference maker". He hasn't improve the Reds since he's been there (granted not many players could improve that team). Granted Dunn hits a few out, and walk a few times, but in no way would I consider Dunn a "difference maker" until he proves it.

 

What else exactly would he have to do to be a difference maker?

 

How about becoming....I don't know....a COMPLETE player? Or...helping the Reds WIN MORE GAMES....maybe.....doing those things. No doubt Dunn is a GIFTED POWER THREAT, but having power doesn't mean he is a "difference maker."

 

He does help them win more games. It's not his fault they lose. Look to their pitching for the explanation.

 

'05 DLee wouldn't have made them that much better (taking away Dunn from their lineup). There's only so much impact an offensive player can have, especially when he plays LF, a relatively unimportant position defensively (yes, i know he's moving to 1B).

 

I guess guys like Cabrera aren't difference makers either, or Aramis Ramirez...

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Dunn led the Reds with 28 Win Shares. 6 more than the next highest player on the team.

 

BTW, that is also higher than any player on the Cubs for 2005 except Lee. If Dunn isn't a difference maker, I guess the Cubs don't have any of those either with the possible exception of Lee.