Will Williams be moved?

[marc_foust]

With the rotation looking like Z,Prior, Maddux, Wood, Miller, and then Rusch, Hill, Guzman etc on the outside, is anyone else thinking that Williams will be moved for sure? It is being made pretty clear that Rusch is going to be the rotation over Williams, and Miller and Wood are going straight back as they are healthy. That really makes Williams the odd man out.

I personally would like to see Williams held onto and used in the rotation all year. We know what to expect from Z and Prior. Maddux is supposedly in the best shape he has been in for years. So we may be able to get 15 wins out of him. Wood is always a question, Miller is a big question as well. Hill, Guzman and the other minor leaguers are unproven. And Rusch is Rusch. Williams is young and pitched really well the last number of starts last year.

With Wood and Maddux expected to be gone next year, That leaves Prior and Z, along with Rusch as our major league pitchers. If Miller pans out he might be resigned as well. In my opinion Williams would be the third best pitcher in the rotation this year and next. If the rotation has Z, Prior, Willaims, and a healthy Miller, we can either promote one of the minor leaguers, or maybe, just maybe sign a FA.

But to trade Williams, a young, cheap, healthy, good arm would be a very short sighted move. With as many question marks in the rotation, I think it would be a huge mistake to trade off a proven arm. Unless of course it is for an impact player.

[Tim]

If Williams comes into camp about 20 pounds lighter, I think he'll really have the Cubs attention as being serious about things. If he comes into camp out of shape, I think he'll be dealt before opening day.

[rawaction]

Well, you know the Cubs are gonna have injuries. Wood may not be ready opening day. Miller won't be. Guzman may not ever be ready. Prior and Zambrano always have that risk because of past workloads. Maddux is old. Rusch can easily be ineffective at any given time. Hill is largely unproven.

 

I'd like to hold onto Williams unless the Cubs can package him with others to get a big bat. You also gotta start thinking about 2007. Maddux will be gone. Wood could be. Williams could step in and be a solid #3. If guys like Hill, Guzman, Marshall, etc show they are healthy and ready for an ML load, then you trade Williams.

 

There's no way I start Rusch over Williams, especially since Williams has been the better start and Rusch the better reliever.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Why would Rusch be starting over Williams anyway? I'm assuming neither is traded or injured to start the season. ...b/c Rusch sucks in the pen? That's a great reason to put him in the rotation, lol.

[marc_foust]

Why would Rusch be starting over Williams anyway? I'm assuming neither is traded or injured to start the season. ...b/c Rusch sucks in the pen? That's a great reason to put him in the rotation, lol.

 

Everything I have heard has said that as soon as Wood is back Williams will likely be the one moved out of the rotation.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Why would Rusch be starting over Williams anyway? I'm assuming neither is traded or injured to start the season. ...b/c Rusch sucks in the pen? That's a great reason to put him in the rotation, lol.

 

Everything I have heard has said that as soon as Wood is back Williams will likely be the one moved out of the rotation.

 

Yeah, I've gotten that impression too. I'm just wondering why Williams is the odd man out when he's better than Rusch and a good deal cheaper. I guess he has value, unlike Rusch, lol.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Does Williams have an option remaining?

 

I don't think he does. If that's the case, he'll have to remain in the pen or rotation if he's not traded.

 

I hope we hang on to him in some fashion until at least mid-season.

[Jehrico]

I gotta agree with Tim...I think it all depends on him showing up to camp in good shape and about 220 or less. If he does, I think he controls his own destiny, and Rusch will be the swing man.

 

The question I'm most interested in, is what happens if Guzman is healthy (HUGE if, I know...) and dominant to begin the season? If he's lights out at ST, I think he goes to AAA. But how long will they keep him in AAA if he continues being lights out?

 

Call me naive, but I think he makes his debut this year. Someone will have to be traded to make room for him.

[marc_foust]

I gotta agree with Tim...I think it all depends on him showing up to camp in good shape and about 220 or less. If he does, I think he controls his own destiny, and Rusch will be the swing man.

 

The question I'm most interested in, is what happens if Guzman is healthy (HUGE if, I know...) and dominant to begin the season? If he's lights out at ST, I think he goes to AAA. But how long will they keep him in AAA if he continues being lights out?

 

Call me naive, but I think he makes his debut this year. Someone will have to be traded to make room for him.

 

 

I dont think there is really anyway that Guzman realistically has a shot of making the rotation out of ST because of the logjam we have. With Z,Prior, Maddux, Williams, Rusch, Miller, and Wood; Guzman will have to start in AAA until midseason when Hendry is able to make a trade. I could see Williams, Walker, Hill and one of Wuertz/Novoa being packaged for a big bat and to make room for him if he is lights out. But Williams, Rusch, Miller will not be sent to AAA, they will be traded. But I cant really see teams looking to deal early in the year.

[TB_11]

I don't think we can pencil in 200 innings for either Wood or Miller, so Williams definitely has a spot in the starting rotation.

[Backtobanks]

I would like to find a way to keep Williams or at least find a trade partner who understands his true value as a young, cheap, experienced pitcher who is capable of being a #3 starter on most teams. In other words, package him for a player that will make an impact on the Cubs (Dunn, Abreu, Tejada, etc.).

[WrigleyinEngland]

I don't see us getting that value out of williams. What about trading him together with walker ( as hendry is determined to go) for a top OF prospect. i'm not aware who has a surplus of OF prospects, would the Mets do williams, walker and another minor league arm for Miledge? Would Arizona part with one of there guys?. I feel we might get some value out of dealing for a prospect rather than a Major league star.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Just because Rusch gets the benefit of the doubt because of his veteran status, LH pitching, and his somewhat acceptable performance for us the last couple years, does NOT mean he's permanently penciled in to the rotation. He'll need to perform to keep his place. This isn't a $12MM pitcher we're talking about here like Kerry Wood--Rusch has been bad before, he has experience in the pen, and I don't think the Cubs will hesitate TOO long to put him back there if he falters as a starter.

 

Frankly, I think the deal is that in April, Rusch and Williams are going to be competing and auditioning for a permanent rotation spot the remainder of the season. Let the best man win. When Wood comes back, the choice will be made, and if Rusch is the winner, THEN Jerome could be dealt. If Williams is the winner, Rusch moves to the pen and whoever the 12th pitcher is (Novoa or Wellemeyer) is out of luck. Novoa has options so he can always be shuttled back to Iowa, but if Welly is still here by then, he'll be dumped to another team.

 

If/when Miller returns, I think it'll be as a reliever.

 

Finally, I don't think there's any rush with Hill and Guzman. Neither has yet pitched a full season of AAA ball, I can see both staying in Iowa until the July trade deadline at a bare minimum.

[baseball7897]

The Cubs have alot of depth in the pitching rotation this year.

 

Zambrano

Prior

Wood

Miller

Maddux

Rusch

Hill

Williams

Guzman

Koronka

Simontacchi

 

Which means Williams is expendable if the right deal is there.

 

Looking at the Cubs depth chart, their infield is a little short on depth, and not versatile enough.

[marc_foust]

The Cubs have alot of depth in the pitching rotation this year.

 

Zambrano

Prior

Wood

Miller

Maddux

Rusch

Hill

Williams

Guzman

Koronka

Simontacchi

 

Which means Williams is expendable if the right deal is there.

 

But Williams is probably our third best pitcher right now (taking into account age, health, contract, skill, etc.) I dont think that neccesarilly makes him expendable. Rusch, Hill, Koronka, Simontacchi, Miller, are expendable, Williams is an asset.

[rawaction]

The Cubs have alot of depth in the pitching rotation this year.

 

Zambrano

Prior

Wood

Miller

Maddux

Rusch

Hill

Williams

Guzman

Koronka

Simontacchi

 

Which means Williams is expendable if the right deal is there.

 

If either of those last 2 start, the Cubs are in trouble. And strangely enough, there's a strong chance of that if the Cubs trade Williams. Wood, Miller and Guzman are currently rehabbing. Prior has missed time. Rusch has been ineffective at times. Hill has been ineffective at times (ML level last year, minors before this year).

 

Edit: But if the Cubs can get a big bat for a package including Williams, I do it and gamble that 5 of the other top 8 names can stay healthy at the same time.

Edited February 5, 2006 by rawaction

[marc_foust]

The Cubs have alot of depth in the pitching rotation this year.

 

Zambrano

Prior

Wood

Miller

Maddux

Rusch

Hill

Williams

Guzman

Koronka

Simontacchi

 

Which means Williams is expendable if the right deal is there.

 

But Williams is probably our third best pitcher right now (taking into account age, health, contract, skill, etc.) I dont think that neccesarilly makes him expendable. Rusch, Hill, Koronka, Simontacchi, Miller, are expendable, Williams is an asset. Prior and Z areuntouchable, right behind them in value I see Williams.

[BigbadB]

I'd be interested in what Williams could net in return. What position would Hendry upgrade? Seems like the only option is LF or SS. Would he really turn Jones and his newly signed 5m contract into a platoon? I don't see it. I know he should considering his splits against lefty hitters, but what you will likely see Dusty do when a lefty is on the mound is move Jones down in the order, not bench him. He can catch the ball, afterall. :roll: Murton or Cedeno will pay the price if Williams is traded.

 

If Williams gets moved at this point, it's probably likely to happen at the trade deadline. But, he'll need some rotation starts and be effective to make it worth trading him.

[rawaction]

I'd be interested in what Williams could net in return. What position would Hendry upgrade? Seems like the only option is LF or SS. Would he really turn Jones and his newly signed 5m contract into a platoon? I don't see it. I know he should considering his splits against lefty hitters, but what you will likely see Dusty do when a lefty is on the mound is move Jones down in the order, not bench him. He can catch the ball, afterall. :roll: Murton or Cedeno will pay the price if Williams is traded.

 

If Williams gets moved at this point, it's probably likely to happen at the trade deadline. But, he'll need some rotation starts and be effective to make it worth trading him.

 

I just realized that there will be a ton of games vs. LHPs this year.

 

St. Louis- Mulder

Pitt- Duke, Maholm, Perez, Burnett

Cincy- Milton, Dave Williams, Claussen

Mil- Davis, Capuano, Eveland

Houston- Pettitte, Wandy Rodriguez

 

Jones will be pretty useless at least 2 games of every series against Pittsburgh, and useless at least once in every other division series outside of St. Louis.

[USSoccer]

Jones will be pretty useless at least 2 games of every series against Pittsburgh, and useless at least once in every other division series outside of St. Louis.

 

As opposed to the other games, where he'll be awesome? :P

 

Sorry, that was just a hanging curveball there...but it's a good point. That's a lot of division pitchers that he has a great shot at struggling against.

[UK1679666180]

Anything from Miller should be considered a luxury at this stage, coming off a shoulder operation is still an iffy proposal if he'll be able to contribute much for the year. This is odd considering they signed him to a 1yr deal and not a team option for year 2.

 

I wouldn't trade him at this stage or any stage around the start of the year, you'd have to see more progression from Hill and trust the health of Guzman as well as whether or not he would be able to handle AAA.

 

This pitching depth doesn't exist right now with a rehabbing Wood & Miller. That's w/out factoring that once they come back, it would be a small miracle if the rest of the rotation remained healthy as well as Wood and Miller not returning to the DL at some point.

[JWCUB]

I say you gotta keep Williams unless he is used to get a BIG TIME BAT. Manny, Abreu, or Dunn. I liked most of what I saw from him last year. He is a year older and maybe a little more focused.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

With his age and past performances, Williams being our 3rd best starter is not necessarily something to be proud of for the upcoming season. I think he has the potential to become a pretty solid 2-3 starter over the next 2-3 years, but what are we going to trade him for? We're committed to too many mediocre players at too many positions to make a move. Are we going to trade him for pitching? Seems redundant to me. Package him with whom to get what? I don't think it's enough to make much of an impact.

 

The smart move would have been to find a way to make an impact trade in RF (i.e. if Giles isn't available, is Abreu?) with Williams as a key part of the deal prior to signing Jones. It could possibly still happen, but if I see an outfield of Jones/Pierre/Abreu vs. Murton/Pierre/Abreu, I may vomit 162 times. Maybe Hendry tried, I doubt it. As the team stands right now, dealing Williams will probably get us nothing with as much value as he should bring.

[BigbadB]

I could actually deal with Jones in LF if Abreu was in the other corner.

[SouthSideRyan]

Answering the question from page 1, yes Williams has 1 option remaining.