Abreu to the White Sox in the Rumor Mill

[HoopsCubs]

A source of mine on the East Coast (same person who told me in December that the Cubs were in the race with another NL Central team to sign Wade Miller) told me this morning that he has heard from 2 Philly contacts that Pat Gillick and Kenny Williams have been discussing a Jose Contreras and Jermaine Dye deal for Bobby Abreu and Gavin Floyd.

 

The 2006 money is just about even with Contreras getting $8M, Dye getting $5M plus $1.15M buyout, and Abreu getting $13M. The Sox have a concern trying to fit Abreu's $15M plus $2M buyout in 2007, but feel that if Gavin Floyd shows progress, they could deal Freddy Garcia or Javier Vazquez next offseason to free up some cash. 2007 rotation would be:

 

Buehrle

Garland

McCarthy

Floyd

Garcia or Vazquez

 

No confirmation from any other source, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

 

Hoops

[SouthSideRyan]

Does this deal look insane from the Phillies standpoint to anybody else?

[Balsa]

Wow. That would be amazing for the Sox. They would surely be the favorites to repeat if that happened.

[CuseCubFan69]

That would be a nice move for the Sox. Hendry to counteract this would then sign Branyan.

[RynoRules]

For the love of G-d, JH can't come up with something better than Dye and Contreras?

[CubinNY]

Does this deal look insane from the Phillies standpoint to anybody else?

 

Absofreakinglutly

 

What is Williams doing, giving other GMs a date rape drug and then taking pictures?

[gflore34]

For the love of G-d, JH can't come up with something better than Dye and Contreras?

 

Haven't you heard? We already have a solid RFer in JJ, after all he's going to better than a lot of people think or was it he's going to surprise a lot people?

[snoodmonger]

This doesn't sound plausible.

[CuseCubFan69]

For the love of G-d, JH can't come up with something better than Dye and Contreras?

 

Haven't you heard? We already have a solid RFer in JJ, after all he's going to better than a lot of people think or was it he's going to surprise a lot people?

 

Mr. Hendry's job depends on it IMO.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Contreras and Dye for Abreu? Where does Kenny Williams sign? Hey, how about they throw in Floyd too. :?

[Shawon12]

For the love of G-d, JH can't come up with something better than Dye and Contreras?

 

I don't think he can. The Cubs problem is that almost everyone has been injured or has underperformed over the last couple years so their value is low.

Conversely, the WS players have overachieved and it's giving Williams much better options. Over the past few years, Williams has sold high, Hendry has sold low. Its frusturating!

[Andy]

No possible way. Refuse to take anything less than Prior from us, then gladly take a 50 year old pitcher and a strikeout artist who's had two good seaons this millennium, AND throw in a prospect? That would be one of the most lopsided deals in history.

[goonys evil twin]

Does this deal look insane from the Phillies standpoint to anybody else?

 

Absofreakinglutly

 

What is Williams doing, giving other GMs a date rape drug and then taking pictures?

 

If this is in the works, it would seem to put some stock in the theory that Philly just wants to move Abreu to change the look of their team. It wouldn't make any sense to trade him for older players who are nowhere near great. Philly's hopes lie on the shoulders of Utley and Utley, plus maybe Burrell. The first two could provide top 3 in the league production from their position at a very far below market price. The pitching is what's lacking, but Myers and Tejeda are a nice start. I just don't think they are in any sort of position to trade Abreu for a pitcher like Contreras, who is not consistently good, or Dye, who is older than Bobby and far less productive historically.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

For the love of G-d, JH can't come up with something better than Dye and Contreras?

 

I don't think the Cubs can. The problem for the Cubs is that the players that teams want in these deals the Cubs can't afford to give.

 

The Cubs aren't offering Prior or Zambrano. Wood is injured and Maddux is too old. So, when that is taken into account, The Cubs lack the pitcher with the ability and track record of Contreras to include in such a deal.

 

That, I think, all along has been the problem with Hendry pulling a deal for a big bat. Teams that want to contend this year are asking for Prior or Zambrano because after that all the Cubs have that interests them is prospects.

 

While we certainly can compete in deals where teams want prospects (ie the acquiring of Pierre), we have more difficulty getting players in the good ole fashioned baseball swaps because or top line talent is non-tradeable in most deals and we lack the provenmid-range guys that teams seek.

[Backtobanks]

I keep reading about teams ready to trade a superstar for a #1 or #2 starter and they talk to the White Sox about Contreras. I don't get it. I might understand if they asked for Garland or Garcia, but Contreras????? Maybe we ought to offer the Phillies Rusch or Maddox for Abreu.

[daske17]

I don't think the Cubs can. The problem for the Cubs is that the players that teams want in these deals the Cubs can't afford to give.

 

The Cubs aren't offering Prior or Zambrano. Wood is injured and Maddux is too old. So, when that is taken into account, The Cubs lack the pitcher with the ability and track record of Contreras to include in such a deal.

 

That, I think, all along has been the problem with Hendry pulling a deal for a big bat. Teams that want to contend this year are asking for Prior or Zambrano because after that all the Cubs have that interests them is prospects.

 

While we certainly can compete in deals where teams want prospects (ie the acquiring of Pierre), we have more difficulty getting players in the good ole fashioned baseball swaps because or top line talent is non-tradeable in most deals and we lack the provenmid-range guys that teams seek.

 

I agree wholeheartedly. Unless we started offering up Zambrano, Ramirez and Lee, we don't have tradeable everyday players/pitchers. It seems, especially this year, that the only trades that involved prospects were to teams that are in rebuilding modes.

[ThePenguin11]

For Abreu and Gavin Floyd, they could ask for Murton, Pie and Jerome Williams. They could have guys to play for right now and build for the future.

[CubinNY]

If this deal comes to fruition I will write a check for $50 to the GOP Edited February 1, 2006 by CubinNY

[HoopsCubs]

I keep reading about teams ready to trade a superstar for a #1 or #2 starter and they talk to the White Sox about Contreras. I don't get it. I might understand if they asked for Garland or Garcia, but Contreras????? Maybe we ought to offer the Phillies Rusch or Maddox for Abreu.

 

Perception is probably reality on this one B to B! Regardless of what the numbers and sabermetrics may actually show, there is surely a perception among GMs around the league that from July through October Jose Contreras was the best pitcher in baseball.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

It'd be a good deal for the Sox however the Phillies would gain payroll flexibility for 07.

[CubinNY]

I keep reading about teams ready to trade a superstar for a #1 or #2 starter and they talk to the White Sox about Contreras. I don't get it. I might understand if they asked for Garland or Garcia, but Contreras????? Maybe we ought to offer the Phillies Rusch or Maddox for Abreu.

 

Perception is probably reality on this one B to B! Regardless of what the numbers and sabermetrics may actually show, there is surely a perception among GMs around the league that from July through October Jose Contreras was the best pitcher in baseball.

 

With all due respect Hoops,

 

The GMs around the league are, for the most part, not stupid.

 

July -Oct. is hardly the way to measure a pitcher. Especially one with Contreras's track record. And then Jermanie Dye? He has been washed up for for a while.

[UMFan83]

I doubt this will happen, but if it did I would wonder if JH and Kenny Williams roles are reversed.

[TheDude]

For the love of G-d, JH can't come up with something better than Dye and Contreras?

 

I don't think the Cubs can. The problem for the Cubs is that the players that teams want in these deals the Cubs can't afford to give.

 

This is what I have been saying all off-season as people bash Hendry for not getting that stud bat. In addition to not being able to give up the best pitching, the Cubs don't actually have the asked for value on the roster.

 

The Cubs pitchers range from superior to prospects with no healthy above-average proven MLB starters inbetween (besides Maddux - who isn't going to be traded). Wood would qualify without the health concerns.

 

The Cubs simply don't have what teams want. The Cubs have two Cy Young potential aces, a reclamation ace potenital, a wily veteran intent on retiring a Cub, and a boatload of unproven prospects. So teams ask for more than they might from other teams (Prior, Zambrano) and the Cubs say no.

[HoopsCubs]

I keep reading about teams ready to trade a superstar for a #1 or #2 starter and they talk to the White Sox about Contreras. I don't get it. I might understand if they asked for Garland or Garcia, but Contreras????? Maybe we ought to offer the Phillies Rusch or Maddox for Abreu.

 

Perception is probably reality on this one B to B! Regardless of what the numbers and sabermetrics may actually show, there is surely a perception among GMs around the league that from July through October Jose Contreras was the best pitcher in baseball.

 

With all due respect Hoops,

 

The GMs around the league are, for the most part, not stupid.

 

July -Oct. is hardly the way to measure a pitcher. Especially one with Contreras's track record. And then Jermanie Dye? He has been washed up for for a while.

 

Dye did post an .846 OPS in 2005. Now, he may not be that good, but washed up is a bit harsh. Contreras did have a 3.61 ERA and 1.23 WHIP for the entire season in 2005 - he was bad in the 1st half and stellar in the 2nd half. Considering the trade would free up $17M for Philly in 2007, I think it would be a good deal for them. I'd make the trade if I was Gillick.

[cjbucks]

Does this deal look insane from the Phillies standpoint to anybody else?

 

Absofreakinglutly

 

What is Williams doing, giving other GMs a date rape drug and then taking pictures?

 

If this is in the works, it would seem to put some stock in the theory that Philly just wants to move Abreu to change the look of their team. It wouldn't make any sense to trade him for older players who are nowhere near great. Philly's hopes lie on the shoulders of Utley and Utley, plus maybe Burrell. The first two could provide top 3 in the league production from their position at a very far below market price. The pitching is what's lacking, but Myers and Tejeda are a nice start. I just don't think they are in any sort of position to trade Abreu for a pitcher like Contreras, who is not consistently good, or Dye, who is older than Bobby and far less productive historically.

 

Is this like when the Cubs had Patterson and Patterson? :)