cubs close to trading corey to the o's

[rawaction]

of course eric's going to give the 'business is business' line, but i think it's crazy to assume that what happened to corey doesn't at least cross eric's mind. i don't know if it's possible for eric to not harbor some ill feelings toward the cubs.

 

Did the Cubs organization really treat Corey that poorly? I don't think they did...

 

Yeah, the only thing Corey can really claim mistreatment from is the fans.

 

 

I don't know if it qualifies as mistreatment, but he was grossly misused, and then scapegoated. He and Walker have been the Sammy and Farnsworth of 2005/2006. And in many ways, this all goes back to when Dusty inexplicably pulled him aside on the field for what looked like lesson time, after he won a game with a walkoff homer. Prior to that, he was still doing some things right.

 

That's a good point. I don't think Eric will see it that way, but I think that's the way it is. The Cubs brought back guys like Neifi, Rusch, and others who were the real problem (not producing with too much PT) and seem to have a crusade to get rid of 2 perceived problems, at any cost, in Patterson and Walker, just like Sosa and Farnsworth before them.

[stitchface]

of course eric's going to give the 'business is business' line, but i think it's crazy to assume that what happened to corey doesn't at least cross eric's mind. i don't know if it's possible for eric to not harbor some ill feelings toward the cubs.

 

Did the Cubs organization really treat Corey that poorly? I don't think they did...

 

Yeah, the only thing Corey can really claim mistreatment from is the fans.

 

 

I don't know if it qualifies as mistreatment, but he was grossly misused, and then scapegoated. He and Walker have been the Sammy and Farnsworth of 2005/2006. And in many ways, this all goes back to when Dusty inexplicably pulled him aside on the field for what looked like lesson time, after he won a game with a walkoff homer. Prior to that, he was still doing some things right.

 

That's a good point. I don't think Eric will see it that way, but I think that's the way it is. The Cubs brought back guys like Neifi, Rusch, and others who were the real problem (not producing with too much PT) and seem to have a crusade to get rid of 2 perceived problems, at any cost, in Patterson and Walker, just like Sosa and Farnsworth before them.

 

I really don't see any argument that Corey was mistreated. After his performance, he had no business being recalled from AAA. Whatever his fate, Corey brought it on himself with poor performance. To blame Cubs management would be ridiculous.

[UK1679666180]

I really don't see any argument that Corey was mistreated. After his performance, he had no business being recalled from AAA. Whatever his fate, Corey brought it on himself with poor performance. To blame Cubs management would be ridiculous.

 

For me, I blame the Cubs for rushing him. This goes back to his amazing year in '99 at Lansing. I said at the time, he should've gone to Daytona (even for a brief stint) and worked with the best hitting instuctor in the system at the time (Zisk). He had a good, but not a great year at West Tenn, and despite being very young for the League, the flaws were there that are still there.

 

To me, there's no doubt in my mind the Cubs made a mistake by rushing him. I hope they've learned their lesson with Pie, but if those reports of him being called up last year if he had not injured his ankle, scare me.

 

At this point of his career, he is more raw after his stint at AA than Patterson was after '00 and that includes Pie going to Daytona unlike Corey.

[rawaction]

of course eric's going to give the 'business is business' line, but i think it's crazy to assume that what happened to corey doesn't at least cross eric's mind. i don't know if it's possible for eric to not harbor some ill feelings toward the cubs.

 

Did the Cubs organization really treat Corey that poorly? I don't think they did...

 

Yeah, the only thing Corey can really claim mistreatment from is the fans.

 

 

I don't know if it qualifies as mistreatment, but he was grossly misused, and then scapegoated. He and Walker have been the Sammy and Farnsworth of 2005/2006. And in many ways, this all goes back to when Dusty inexplicably pulled him aside on the field for what looked like lesson time, after he won a game with a walkoff homer. Prior to that, he was still doing some things right.

 

That's a good point. I don't think Eric will see it that way, but I think that's the way it is. The Cubs brought back guys like Neifi, Rusch, and others who were the real problem (not producing with too much PT) and seem to have a crusade to get rid of 2 perceived problems, at any cost, in Patterson and Walker, just like Sosa and Farnsworth before them.

 

I really don't see any argument that Corey was mistreated. After his performance, he had no business being recalled from AAA. Whatever his fate, Corey brought it on himself with poor performance. To blame Cubs management would be ridiculous.

 

I don't think he was mistreated either. He needs to go. But I agree he was scapegoated (using Goony's word) along with Walker. There are bunch of people on this team who didn't produce and shouldn't be back, just like there were plenty after the 2004 season.

[stitchface]

I really don't see any argument that Corey was mistreated. After his performance, he had no business being recalled from AAA. Whatever his fate, Corey brought it on himself with poor performance. To blame Cubs management would be ridiculous.

 

For me, I blame the Cubs for rushing him. This goes back to his amazing year in '99 at Lansing. I said at the time, he should've gone to Daytona (even for a brief stint) and worked with the best hitting instuctor in the system at the time (Zisk). He had a good, but great year at West Tenn, and despite being very young for the League, the flaws were there that are still there.

 

To me, there's no doubt in my mind the Cubs made a mistake by rushing him. I hope they've learned their lesson with Pie, but if those reports of him being called up last year if he had not injured his ankle, scare me.

 

At this point of his career, he is more raw after his stint at AA than Patterson was after '00 and that includes Pie going to Daytona unlike Corey.

 

I agree with you UK, but I don't think Corey would classify that as mistreatment. This is one of the most worrisome things about Hendry and the Cubs, they seem to have no idea how they messed up with Corey and are going to repeat the same mistakes with Pie. Jim doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes.

[abuck1220]

of course eric's going to give the 'business is business' line, but i think it's crazy to assume that what happened to corey doesn't at least cross eric's mind. i don't know if it's possible for eric to not harbor some ill feelings toward the cubs.

 

Did the Cubs organization really treat Corey that poorly? I don't think they did...

 

Yeah, the only thing Corey can really claim mistreatment from is the fans.

 

 

I don't know if it qualifies as mistreatment, but he was grossly misused, and then scapegoated. He and Walker have been the Sammy and Farnsworth of 2005/2006. And in many ways, this all goes back to when Dusty inexplicably pulled him aside on the field for what looked like lesson time, after he won a game with a walkoff homer. Prior to that, he was still doing some things right.

 

That's a good point. I don't think Eric will see it that way, but I think that's the way it is. The Cubs brought back guys like Neifi, Rusch, and others who were the real problem (not producing with too much PT) and seem to have a crusade to get rid of 2 perceived problems, at any cost, in Patterson and Walker, just like Sosa and Farnsworth before them.

 

I really don't see any argument that Corey was mistreated. After his performance, he had no business being recalled from AAA. Whatever his fate, Corey brought it on himself with poor performance. To blame Cubs management would be ridiculous.

 

maybe, but that may not be the way corey sees it. and i'd bet that his entire cub experience is not one he'll remember fondly. whether it's fair or not, i'd say that corey will not be leaving on good terms w/ the organization.

[UK1679666180]

I agree with you UK, but I don't think Corey would classify that as mistreatment. This is one of the most worrisome things about Hendry and the Cubs, they seem to have no idea how they messed up with Corey and are going to repeat the same mistakes with Pie. Jim doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes.

 

It's not mistreatment, just bad baseball.

[stitchface]

of course eric's going to give the 'business is business' line, but i think it's crazy to assume that what happened to corey doesn't at least cross eric's mind. i don't know if it's possible for eric to not harbor some ill feelings toward the cubs.

 

Did the Cubs organization really treat Corey that poorly? I don't think they did...

 

Yeah, the only thing Corey can really claim mistreatment from is the fans.

 

 

I don't know if it qualifies as mistreatment, but he was grossly misused, and then scapegoated. He and Walker have been the Sammy and Farnsworth of 2005/2006. And in many ways, this all goes back to when Dusty inexplicably pulled him aside on the field for what looked like lesson time, after he won a game with a walkoff homer. Prior to that, he was still doing some things right.

 

That's a good point. I don't think Eric will see it that way, but I think that's the way it is. The Cubs brought back guys like Neifi, Rusch, and others who were the real problem (not producing with too much PT) and seem to have a crusade to get rid of 2 perceived problems, at any cost, in Patterson and Walker, just like Sosa and Farnsworth before them.

 

I really don't see any argument that Corey was mistreated. After his performance, he had no business being recalled from AAA. Whatever his fate, Corey brought it on himself with poor performance. To blame Cubs management would be ridiculous.

 

maybe, but that may not be the way corey sees it. and i'd bet that his entire cub experience is not one he'll remember fondly. whether it's fair or not, i'd say that corey will not be leaving on good terms w/ the organization.

 

probably, but he should buy a mirror. when he fails miserably everywhere else maybe he'll understand.

[Tanner_20]

why would the cubs want to trade him anyway? walker & jhjr at 2b seems like the best option for 2006 imo. if the cubs dont like him because he speaks his mind maybe they should worry more about what goes on on the field instead of off the field. unless it's vidro (and who knows how healthy he is), whoever they trade him for would most likely cost more and be less productive.

 

Actually, the "speaking his mind" part played a lesser part with the Cubs than it did with other teams as far as Walker is concerned. The Cubs, from the front office on down to some members of the pitching staff, do not like Walker's defense. And the Cubs do seem to be on a "defense" kick these days. None of us is privy to everything that goes on behind closed doors, so who knows what has gone on.

Myself? I'd keep Walker and start him. But that's just me.

 

Not that I am disagreeing with the notion that the cubs have been looking to improve defense recently, but then why move Patterson? I love his skills, especially defensively.

 

If I were in charge (glad I'm not :) ), I would have him start the season as the fourth outfielder, getting spot starts in place of Murton. If Patterson finds his swing and becomes the player that he was in the first half of '03. Then we'd have a whole nother, but a good problem. Just my thoughts. Not trying to be argumentative.

[Laura]

It can work both ways -- maybe it would be easier if they weren't in the same organization.

[abuck1220]

you guys are viewing 'mistreatment' from a completely subjective perspective. i don't know if corey can take such a detached view of the situation. in his mind, he could think 1) the cubs brought him up too fast 2) the cubs continued to go back and forth as to what kind of hitter they wanted him to be 3) the cubs batted him leadoff against his wishes 4) the cubs sent him down in embarrassing fashion last season 5) the cubs never publicly supported him when he was having his troubles 6) the cubs retained control over him having no intention of keeping him, thus controlling where he played next season.

[BigbadB]

Any mistreatment will never reach the fans in this instance. If he was ever mistreated by the Cub organization, Corey might share that with his brother, or has already shared that with his brother, but I doubt he comes out publicly about it.

 

The only real mistreatment (IMO) that I can recall was when Corey was first called up, Baylor sat him on the bench more than he played him. If that's what you intend to do to a youngster/prospect, you might as well leave him in the minors to play everyday. Valuable time was lost in 2000 and 2001 with a grand total of 173 major league at bats. Meanwhile, the Cubs were throwing guys like Damon Buford, GMJ, Todd Dunwoody, Brant Brown and Michael Tucker out there in CF.

[rawaction]

you guys are viewing 'mistreatment' from a completely subjective perspective. i don't know if corey can take such a detached view of the situation. in his mind, he could think 1) the cubs brought him up too fast 2) the cubs continued to go back and forth as to what kind of hitter they wanted him to be 3) the cubs batted him leadoff against his wishes 4) the cubs sent him down in embarrassing fashion last season 5) the cubs never publicly supported him when he was having his troubles 6) the cubs retained control over him having no intention of keeping him, thus controlling where he played next season.

 

Agreed. But it doesn't really matter how he feels if he's not a Cub. I'm sure Eric is professional enough to not hold a grudge against the organization. And Corey doesn't seem like a guy who would bad mouth the organization to his little brother.

[Bruce Miles]

I really don't see any argument that Corey was mistreated. After his performance, he had no business being recalled from AAA. Whatever his fate, Corey brought it on himself with poor performance. To blame Cubs management would be ridiculous.

 

For me, I blame the Cubs for rushing him. This goes back to his amazing year in '99 at Lansing. I said at the time, he should've gone to Daytona (even for a brief stint) and worked with the best hitting instuctor in the system at the time (Zisk). He had a good, but not a great year at West Tenn, and despite being very young for the League, the flaws were there that are still there.

 

To me, there's no doubt in my mind the Cubs made a mistake by rushing him. I hope they've learned their lesson with Pie, but if those reports of him being called up last year if he had not injured his ankle, scare me.

 

At this point of his career, he is more raw after his stint at AA than Patterson was after '00 and that includes Pie going to Daytona unlike Corey.

 

I second the notion that Patterson was rushed. I believe he should have spent at least the first half of the 2000 season at Daytona. He had an OK year at West Tenn, but he no doubt would have benefited from extended time with Richie Zisk.

Edited January 6, 2006 by Bruce Miles

[Bull]

why would the cubs want to trade him anyway? walker & jhjr at 2b seems like the best option for 2006 imo. if the cubs dont like him because he speaks his mind maybe they should worry more about what goes on on the field instead of off the field. unless it's vidro (and who knows how healthy he is), whoever they trade him for would most likely cost more and be less productive.

 

Actually, the "speaking his mind" part played a lesser part with the Cubs than it did with other teams as far as Walker is concerned. The Cubs, from the front office on down to some members of the pitching staff, do not like Walker's defense. And the Cubs do seem to be on a "defense" kick these days. None of us is privy to everything that goes on behind closed doors, so who knows what has gone on.

Myself? I'd keep Walker and start him. But that's just me.

 

Not that I am disagreeing with the notion that the cubs have been looking to improve defense recently, but then why move Patterson? I love his skills, especially defensively.

 

If I were in charge (glad I'm not :) ), I would have him start the season as the fourth outfielder, getting spot starts in place of Murton. If Patterson finds his swing and becomes the player that he was in the first half of '03. Then we'd have a whole nother, but a good problem. Just my thoughts. Not trying to be argumentative.

 

I for one agree. These are grown men. And Corey *is* under the control of the Cubs. He can't go anywhere but up in performance and trade value.

[stitchface]

you guys are viewing 'mistreatment' from a completely subjective perspective. i don't know if corey can take such a detached view of the situation. in his mind, he could think 1) the cubs brought him up too fast 2) the cubs continued to go back and forth as to what kind of hitter they wanted him to be 3) the cubs batted him leadoff against his wishes 4) the cubs sent him down in embarrassing fashion last season 5) the cubs never publicly supported him when he was having his troubles 6) the cubs retained control over him having no intention of keeping him, thus controlling where he played next season.

 

I realize I am looking at it from my perspective. We really should look at it from Eric's. 1) Corey whined about not being promoted when he was performing in a mediocre way at AAA. There is no way he should be complaining about this although I would say it was the number one way he was mistreated. If Eric is concerned about this, he should request to meet with Fleita and discuss the organization's plans. Being older than Corey was, Eric should have a distinct advantage in maturity and perspective.

 

2) Corey should have just played as well as he could. Had he performed better, no one would have brought these things up. Overall, the Cubs are wrong here and again show their ignorance about baseball. Very disturbing.

 

3) See 2. Shouldn't have mattered to Corey.

 

4) He embarassed himself. I don't see how being sent down should be construed as mistreatment. Eric should be able to see that Corey wasn't getting it done. The mistake was bringing him back.

 

5) This isn't true.

 

6) Baseball is a business. He should be thankful because he will make far more money as a result of this than he would have if he was non-tendered.

[Bruce Miles]

you guys are viewing 'mistreatment' from a completely subjective perspective. i don't know if corey can take such a detached view of the situation. in his mind, he could think 1) the cubs brought him up too fast 2) the cubs continued to go back and forth as to what kind of hitter they wanted him to be 3) the cubs batted him leadoff against his wishes 4) the cubs sent him down in embarrassing fashion last season 5) the cubs never publicly supported him when he was having his troubles 6) the cubs retained control over him having no intention of keeping him, thus controlling where he played next season.

 

I realize I am looking at it from my perspective. We really should look at it from Eric's. 1) Corey whined about not being promoted when he was performing in a mediocre way at AAA. There is no way he should be complaining about this although I would say it was the number one way he was mistreated. If Eric is concerned about this, he should request to meet with Fleita and discuss the organization's plans. Being older than Corey was, Eric should have a distinct advantage in maturity and perspective.

 

2) Corey should have just played as well as he could. Had he performed better, no one would have brought these things up. Overall, the Cubs are wrong here and again show their ignorance about baseball. Very disturbing.

 

3) See 2. Shouldn't have mattered to Corey.

 

4) He embarassed himself. I don't see how being sent down should be construed as mistreatment. Eric should be able to see that Corey wasn't getting it done. The mistake was bringing him back.

 

5) This isn't true.

 

6) Baseball is a business. He should be thankful because he will make far more money as a result of this than he would have if he was non-tendered.

 

Eric Patterson will be fine. Trust me. He's got his own career to worry about.

[stitchface]

Is there any indication Bruce that the organization understands the mistakes they made with Corey? Or do they pretty well place the blame on his shoulders? As UK points out, they seem to be on the same path with Pie although I think Felix outperformed Corey at West Tenn. I understand if you don't want to answer this publicly but I think many of us here are concerned about the apparent lack of direction and planning with this organization.

[jtownie]

you guys are viewing 'mistreatment' from a completely subjective perspective. i don't know if corey can take such a detached view of the situation. in his mind, he could think 1) the cubs brought him up too fast 2) the cubs continued to go back and forth as to what kind of hitter they wanted him to be 3) the cubs batted him leadoff against his wishes 4) the cubs sent him down in embarrassing fashion last season 5) the cubs never publicly supported him when he was having his troubles 6) the cubs retained control over him having no intention of keeping him, thus controlling where he played next season.

 

I realize I am looking at it from my perspective. We really should look at it from Eric's. 1) Corey whined about not being promoted when he was performing in a mediocre way at AAA. There is no way he should be complaining about this although I would say it was the number one way he was mistreated. If Eric is concerned about this, he should request to meet with Fleita and discuss the organization's plans. Being older than Corey was, Eric should have a distinct advantage in maturity and perspective.

 

2) Corey should have just played as well as he could. Had he performed better, no one would have brought these things up. Overall, the Cubs are wrong here and again show their ignorance about baseball. Very disturbing.

 

3) See 2. Shouldn't have mattered to Corey.

 

4) He embarassed himself. I don't see how being sent down should be construed as mistreatment. Eric should be able to see that Corey wasn't getting it done. The mistake was bringing him back.

 

5) This isn't true.

 

6) Baseball is a business. He should be thankful because he will make far more money as a result of this than he would have if he was non-tendered.

 

Eric Patterson will be fine. Trust me. He's got his own career to worry about.

 

yeah, Julia Roberts doesn't criticize the film industry because she became a high-powered superstar and her brother didn't!

 

a bad analogy has been written! My work is done here.

 

In all seriousness, I would think EPatt might be somewhat frustrated with the organization but at the same time he has to see that his brother has to take on AT LEAST half the responsibility of not succeeding thus far in his career. Plus he still has a goal of making it to the bigs. Once he makes it there and is successful then he can decide if Chicago is the place for him or not. If he tanks it because of how he perceives the treatment his bro received then he probably doesn't deserve to be a ML ball player in the first place!

[abuck1220]

just to be clear, i'm not saying that this whole thing is going to ruin eric's career. i just think it will affect his opinion of the organization.

[RynoRules]

No, the Cubs being the Cubs ended any chance of getting Tejada

 

That's just silly. You have zero real knowledge of how the correspondance went down. On top of that, all indications from the glimpses of media coverage show us that Baltimore has a higher asking price for Tejada than the market is willing to pay (not just the Cubs, but all other interested parties).

 

Why are people so quick to assume Hendry is to blame for not making deals happen? It takes two to tango they say, so folks need to stop pretending Hendry's dancing with himself.

 

Why are people so quick to defend Hendry at all times, when he has done jack to improve this team for the 2nd straight year. Folks need to stop pretending like Hendry is "God" because of what happened in 2003, and look at the overall picture, and quite frankly the picture is pretty damn ugly.

 

The Hendry defenders are grossly outnumbered by his detractors, FYI.

[Bruce Miles]

Is there any indication Bruce that the organization understands the mistakes they made with Corey? Or do they pretty well place the blame on his shoulders? As UK points out, they seem to be on the same path with Pie although I think Felix outperformed Corey at West Tenn. I understand if you don't want to answer this publicly but I think many of us here are concerned about the apparent lack of direction and planning with this organization.

 

I don't know if "lack of direction and planning" are fair terms, and I'm not defending them here. The Cubs made it their plan to draft a lot of pitchers over the last several years. On the major-league level this winter, it was Hendry's plan to get a leadoff hitter, pursue Furcal, upgrade the bullpen and upgrade the bench. Had he gotten Furcal, he still would have pursued Pierre. I suppose you can throw "improve fundamentals" and "catch the ball" as part of the plan, like them or not. As we know, Furcal didn't come here, but I don't think it was for lack of planning or effort or direction on the Cubs' part. He took more money over the short term with the chance to test free agency again after three years instead of five or six.

We can agree or disagree with a team's plan. But the Cubs are pretty diligent about their planning. Let's remember, too, that there are 29 other teams out there and market forces at work. And if not for the 2005 success of the White Sox and their perceived good off-season, would this whole planning thing be an issue? I don't know.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

just to be clear, i'm not saying that this whole thing is going to ruin eric's career. i just think it will affect his opinion of the organization.

 

I think it'll also effect his opinion of playing in Wrigley.

[stitchface]

just to be clear, i'm not saying that this whole thing is going to ruin eric's career. i just think it will affect his opinion of the organization.

 

I think that's true - however, all indications are Eric's makeup won't let it affect his play. I also think he will weigh his personal experiences more than Corey's experiences. Had he not already signed, this might have all posed a problem.

[Bruce Miles]

I do believe Corey will be traded, but this alleged trade to the Orioles is nowhere near as close as what you might have read coming out of Baltimore today. Doesn't mean it won't happen, but there are other teams with whom the Cubs are talking.