Soriano trade RUMORS part d'uh

[NorthsideAvenger]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=rotowire-lfonsoorianoargetofr&prov=rotowire&type=lgns

 

You think Bowden is kicking himself in the butt about that trade now. He isn't going to get a frontline starter, or even blue-chip prospect, but something tells me, Hendry is going to make a play at Soriano AGAIN. ](*,)

[beer man]

My advice to you is to lay off the drugs you are using.

[rork73]

I haven't been around much since the end of the season, but I've said this before....Soriano's downsides can be easily unlearned in half a season.....and he's got huge skills and potential - probably more that some of you guys realize.

 

With Soriano I truly believe that he's got more to offer than what his stats show. It's just that I wonder is Dusty would be the right guy to improve Soriano.....

[Tim]

My advice to you is to lay off the drugs you are using.

My advice if you would like to remain a member of this site is to refrain from the personal attacks.

[CP_414]

At this point in the offseason I would offer Walker (since he is gone anyway), Patterson, Williams, and Hill for Soriano and Livan Hernandez and cash.

 

Pierre

Murton

Lee

Aramis

Soriano

Jones

Barrett

Cedeno

 

Z, Prior, Wood, Hernandez, Maddux

[Magnetic Curses]

I haven't been around much since the end of the season, but I've said this before....Soriano's downsides can be easily unlearned in half a season.....and he's got huge skills and potential - probably more that some of you guys realize.

 

With Soriano I truly believe that he's got more to offer than what his stats show. It's just that I wonder is Dusty would be the right guy to improve Soriano.....

 

soriano hasn't been able to unlearn any of his problems thus far in his career, and it's unlikely that the cubs coaching staff would even see these things as negatives anyway. if soriano wants to get better, chicago is probably the worst place for him.

[YearofDaCubs]

Just say NO to Soriano.

[RynoRules]

I am not a huge fan of Soriano, but if he can be had on the cheap, I would not mind him hitting fifth.

[treebird]

more like SORIAN-GO AWAY WE DON'T YOU TO PLAY HERE

[sethuel1]

I am not a huge fan of Soriano, but if he can be had on the cheap, I would not mind him hitting fifth.

 

I don't see how he could be had on the cheap considering how much he cost earlier this offseason.

[Cubzfan64]

After signing another free swinging SO guy like Jones to play RF, the last thing this team needs to do is sign on yet ANOTHER lack of discipline hitter who on top of all that isn't even a very good fielder.

 

Have we learned nothing at all about the need to balance an offensive lineup and not put 6-7 guys out there who swing exactly the same way every at bat?

[Magnetic Curses]

After signing another free swinging SO guy like Jones to play RF, the last thing this team needs to do is sign on yet ANOTHER lack of discipline hitter who on top of all that isn't even a very good fielder.

 

Have we learned nothing at all about the need to balance an offensive lineup and not put 6-7 guys out there who swing exactly the same way every at bat?

 

strikeouts don't necessarily mean a lack of discipline. in many cases, strikeouts actually point to a higher degree of plate discipline--and mean more pitches seen per PA.

 

what bothers me is that he never walks.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

I am not a huge fan of Soriano, but if he can be had on the cheap, I would not mind him hitting fifth.

 

I don't see how he could be had on the cheap considering how much he cost earlier this offseason.

 

Not to mention he's going to get paid around 10m for 06.

[RynoRules]

I am not a huge fan of Soriano, but if he can be had on the cheap, I would not mind him hitting fifth.

 

I don't see how he could be had on the cheap considering how much he cost earlier this offseason.

 

Not to mention he's going to get paid around 10m for 06.

 

 

Points taken; my thought was that Bowden's desperation to be rid of him (plus his salary) could drive the price down.

[CubfaninCA]

Why do the Cubs need a 5 hitter to take a bunch of walks??

[BigbadB]

Why do the Cubs need a 5 hitter to take a bunch of walks??

 

Walks anywhere in the line up are good. But, I probably value AVG and SLG a bit more than OBP in the 5 and 6 spots in the order.

 

For example, Nomar was ideal in the 5 or 6 spots last year (assuming he was healthy). His high AVG and decent SLG driving in the 2-3-4 hitters provides more value than drawing a walk for the weaker hitters in the line up. Nomar good OBP derives more from AVG than OBP.

 

Soriano would be a good 6th hitter in a line up that featured good OBP in front of him.

 

A few problems I have with this though. Dusty sees Soriano's speed as a plus at the top of the order, and the fact Soriano doesn't have a good OBP, nor does Jacque Jones and possibly one of Cedeno or Perez starting everyday is another possibility of an mediocre or poor OBP makes the line up weak in regards to OBP. Couple that in with a start every 4th and or 5th day by Blanco along with a possible slight regression from Barrett and Derrek Lee regressing to just above career norms and you have the recipe for disaster.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

At this point in the offseason I would offer Walker (since he is gone anyway), Patterson, Williams, and Hill for Soriano and Livan Hernandez and cash.

 

Pierre

Murton

Lee

Aramis

Soriano

Jones

Barrett

Cedeno

 

Z, Prior, Wood, Hernandez, Maddux

 

Are you kidding me? That is way too much to offer for Soriano. He's as bad defensively as Walker, so there's no upgrade there and his offense is only marginally better if it's better at all.

 

So, that deal ends up Patterson, Williams, and Hill for Hernandez. I'll pass.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I have yet to be persuaded why we'd want Soriano on this team. If we're trading for one of Washington's superfluous secondbasemen, Vidro please.

[anemic offense]

I haven't been around much since the end of the season, but I've said this before....Soriano's downsides can be easily unlearned in half a season.....and he's got huge skills and potential - probably more that some of you guys realize.

 

With Soriano I truly believe that he's got more to offer than what his stats show. It's just that I wonder is Dusty would be the right guy to improve Soriano.....

 

soriano hasn't been able to unlearn any of his problems thus far in his career, and it's unlikely that the cubs coaching staff would even see these things as negatives anyway. if soriano wants to get better, chicago is probably the worst place for him.

 

What's Livan's status? He's been a good pitcher and a reliable workhorse the last several years, but I believe he suffered an arm/elbow problem last year. IIRC, he was bitching and moaning PROFUSELY towards the end of the season about having to pitch while he was injured and how the (Natioanls) putting him out there was risking his career.

 

What became of this I don't know, but if it was even HALF as serious as Livan made it out to be the days of him being the same workhorse may be over.

[anemic offense]

Oops, I quoted the wrong post.

[anemic offense]

At this point in the offseason I would offer Walker (since he is gone anyway), Patterson, Williams, and Hill for Soriano and Livan Hernandez and cash.

 

Pierre

Murton

Lee

Aramis

Soriano

Jones

Barrett

Cedeno

 

Z, Prior, Wood, Hernandez, Maddux

 

This is the one I wanted. :D

[Scotti]

I value what Soriano does offensively greatly. He's got a wiry non-Oakland/Moneyball/B12 frame and uses that and his bat speed to generate big power. Ironically, I think this is the next “moneyball”—guys that have wiry frames that are unlikely to be busted using roids (DLee falls into this category as well).

 

Soriano also has plus, plus speed and knows what to do with it. And if the objective of offense is scoring and driving in runs then he fulfills that objective. Offensively the addition of Soriano would add another bat to the trio of Lee, Ramirez and Barrett (each the best at his position in the NL in ’05).

 

The Q’s are with his defense. Having DLee around would help some but the Cubs also brought on Ramirez and worked with him before they had Lee. ARam turned the page after about two weeks of coaching. Perhaps Soriano has issues the Cubs coaching staff can work with or perhaps not. Either way I think Soriano’s poor defensive reputation is a tad much given his numbers. Soriano’s range seems fine (if not spectacular). What has been spectacular is the amount of innings Soriano has put up in the last five years. When he is healthy enough to start (often) his managers leave him in there—they don’t take him out for a defensive replacement. This also has “moneyball” implications—you get more for your money than what you would get if you paid a guy who played 130-140 games per year (or was short on innings because he was being PH or PR for).

 

I think a lot of Soriano and so does the league (given what he’s been traded for). The heat might be under Washington to avoid a mess of their own making so, if Soriano can be had for a decent deal, I’m willing to deal. A decent deal would not include Pie or, IMO, Hill or Guzman. I’d try a package around Williams, Marshall, Patterson or Murton. I’d consider Wuertz as well.

[CubbieSouthpaw]

I haven't been around much since the end of the season, but I've said this before....Soriano's downsides can be easily unlearned in half a season.....and he's got huge skills and potential - probably more that some of you guys realize.

 

With Soriano I truly believe that he's got more to offer than what his stats show. It's just that I wonder is Dusty would be the right guy to improve Soriano.....

 

soriano hasn't been able to unlearn any of his problems thus far in his career, and it's unlikely that the cubs coaching staff would even see these things as negatives anyway. if soriano wants to get better, chicago is probably the worst place for him.

 

Sully, not that I disagree with you. But the Cubs coaching staff has improved Ram's defense at 3rd. Its quite possible they could do the same with Soriano. Either way I just don't see the Cubs going after him.

[Scotti]

I have yet to be persuaded why we'd want Soriano on this team. If we're trading for one of Washington's superfluous secondbasemen, Vidro please.

 

I'd bet they'd rather move Soriano than Vidro just because of the circumstances.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I value what Soriano does offensively greatly. He's got a wiry non-Oakland/Moneyball/B12 frame and uses that and his bat speed to generate big power. Ironically, I think this is the next “moneyball”—guys that have wiry frames that are unlikely to be busted using roids (DLee falls into this category as well).

 

Soriano also has plus, plus speed and knows what to do with it. And if the objective of offense is scoring and driving in runs then he fulfills that objective. Offensively the addition of Soriano would add another bat to the trio of Lee, Ramirez and Barrett (each the best at his position in the NL in ’05).

 

The Q’s are with his defense. Having DLee around would help some but the Cubs also brought on Ramirez and worked with him before they had Lee. ARam turned the page after about two weeks of coaching. Perhaps Soriano has issues the Cubs coaching staff can work with or perhaps not. Either way I think Soriano’s poor defensive reputation is a tad much given his numbers. Soriano’s range seems fine (if not spectacular). What has been spectacular is the amount of innings Soriano has put up in the last five years. When he is healthy enough to start (often) his managers leave him in there—they don’t take him out for a defensive replacement. This also has “moneyball” implications—you get more for your money than what you would get if you paid a guy who played 130-140 games per year (or was short on innings because he was being PH or PR for).

 

I think a lot of Soriano and so does the league (given what he’s been traded for). The heat might be under Washington to avoid a mess of their own making so, if Soriano can be had for a decent deal, I’m willing to deal. A decent deal would not include Pie or, IMO, Hill or Guzman. I’d try a package around Williams, Marshall, Patterson or Murton. I’d consider Wuertz as well.

 

Walker is a better offensive player than Soriano. His 45 point advantage in OBP is much greater than Soriano's 35-30 point SLG advantage.