Rosenthal on Nomar, Pie and Pierre

[The Voice of Reason]

Slow news day.

 

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5163848

[CoolHandLuke]

This caught my eye:

 

The White Sox are making a "strong, under the radar" bid to trade for Diamondbacks right-hander Javier Vazquez, according to a source with knowledge of the negotiations. The package of players that the Diamondbacks would receive is not known, though it could include a major-league starting pitcher — perhaps right-hander Jon Garland or Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez — and an outfield prospect such as Chris Young.

 

Wow, Jon Garland and Chris Young would be way overpaying

[rawaction]

This caught my eye:

 

The White Sox are making a "strong, under the radar" bid to trade for Diamondbacks right-hander Javier Vazquez, according to a source with knowledge of the negotiations. The package of players that the Diamondbacks would receive is not known, though it could include a major-league starting pitcher — perhaps right-hander Jon Garland or Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez — and an outfield prospect such as Chris Young.

 

Wow, Jon Garland and Chris Young would be way overpaying

 

That would be a bad, bad trade. The Sox should do it.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

This caught my eye:

 

The White Sox are making a "strong, under the radar" bid to trade for Diamondbacks right-hander Javier Vazquez, according to a source with knowledge of the negotiations. The package of players that the Diamondbacks would receive is not known, though it could include a major-league starting pitcher — perhaps right-hander Jon Garland or Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez — and an outfield prospect such as Chris Young.

 

Wow, Jon Garland and Chris Young would be way overpaying

 

That would be a bad, bad trade. The Sox should do it.

 

I don't know much about Young howver Garland is a great sell high candidate.

[BigbadB]

This caught my eye:

 

The White Sox are making a "strong, under the radar" bid to trade for Diamondbacks right-hander Javier Vazquez, according to a source with knowledge of the negotiations. The package of players that the Diamondbacks would receive is not known, though it could include a major-league starting pitcher — perhaps right-hander Jon Garland or Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez — and an outfield prospect such as Chris Young.

 

Wow, Jon Garland and Chris Young would be way overpaying

 

That would be a bad, bad trade. The Sox should do it.

 

I don't know much about Young howver Garland is a great sell high candidate.

 

Young is one of the best prospects in the minor leagues.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

This caught my eye:

 

The White Sox are making a "strong, under the radar" bid to trade for Diamondbacks right-hander Javier Vazquez, according to a source with knowledge of the negotiations. The package of players that the Diamondbacks would receive is not known, though it could include a major-league starting pitcher — perhaps right-hander Jon Garland or Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez — and an outfield prospect such as Chris Young.

 

Wow, Jon Garland and Chris Young would be way overpaying

 

That would be a bad, bad trade. The Sox should do it.

 

I don't know much about Young howver Garland is a great sell high candidate.

 

Young is one of the best prospects in the minor leagues.

 

3rd in the Southern League last year IIRC. .277/.377/.545/.922 in a full AA season at age 21. BA said in their prospect handbook that the Sox consider him a MLB caliber defensive CF already.

[PieOnMyHands]

Would Pie even be that valuable if he were a corner outfielder?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Would Pie even be that valuable if he were a corner outfielder?

 

Less than if he were in CF, but he has the potential to be a very good corner OF.

[Coach.]

KW ain't that stoopud.

[Drew Doughty]

He did trade Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik...

[YearofDaCubs]

He did trade Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik...

And just won a World Series. If I was a WSox fan I would have complete confidence in my GM unlike ours who has no clue.

[Drew Doughty]

He didn't win with any intelligence. He won with pitchers that pitched beyond great.

 

I wouldn't have faith in him. What is he going to do next? Trade Konerko for Chone Figgins?

[NorthsideAvenger]

He didn't win with any intelligence. He won with pitchers that pitched beyond great.

 

I wouldn't have faith in him. What is he going to do next? Trade Konerko for Chone Figgins?

 

Agreed. There is a saying, "a broken watch is correct twice a day." Or how about the "sun shines on a dog's butt once awhile." Fact is...KW is not a better GM then hendry, heck, I would even say Williams isn't a serviceable Gm. As lawl at dusty said...the White Sox won...despite Williams, not because of his "brillant" moves.

[YearofDaCubs]

He didn't win with any intelligence. He won with pitchers that pitched beyond great.

 

I wouldn't have faith in him. What is he going to do next? Trade Konerko for Chone Figgins?

 

Agreed. There is a saying, "a broken watch is correct twice a day." Or how about the "sun shines on a dog's butt once awhile." Fact is...KW is not a better GM then hendry, heck, I would even say Williams isn't a serviceable Gm. As lawl at dusty said...the White Sox won...despite Williams, not because of his "brillant" moves.

That is completely asinine. It was his moves who set the roster. It was him who signed his manager. He traded and signed the pitchers. Give me an incompetent GM if he gets me a world series.

[David]

KW is a joke. That team will be exposed next year when those pitchers aren't pitching way over their heads.

 

It never ceases to amaze me how much credit he gets for trading Lee for Podsenik when that was actually a terrible move that made the Sox offense WORSE last year.

 

 

Would you suddenly consider Hendry a competent GM (if you don't already) had we gotten those last 5 outs in 2003, like we probably should have?

 

Good results don't always imply good process.

[YearofDaCubs]

The man set up his team to win a WS. This is ridiculous. He traded for Freddy Garcia, Contreras, signed Hermanson, Jenks also got their leadoff man, their new RFer, and their catcher. Chose the manager and yet you are discrediting him? That is ridiculous. Give credit where it's due. Ken Williams deserves a lot of credit for what the team accomplished last year.

[Andy]

Trading one sucky pitcher (Loaiza) for another one in Contreras is not laudable.

 

Neither is picking up a guy who hadn't had a full-season ERA below 4.06 since 1998 (Hermanson).

 

Nor is signing a bar-fighting, arm-burning lunatic like Bobby Jenks.

 

Nor is picking up an injury-prone strikeout king in Dye.

 

Nor is hiring a classless arrogant ass as manager.

 

I really don't see why Williams gets credit from anybody.

[YearofDaCubs]

Trading one sucky pitcher (Loaiza) for another one in Contreras is not laudable.

 

Neither is picking up a guy who hadn't had a full-season ERA below 4.06 since 1998 (Hermanson).

 

Nor is signing a bar-fighting, arm-burning lunatic like Bobby Jenks.

 

Nor is picking up an injury-prone strikeout king in Dye.

 

Nor is hiring a classless arrogant ass as manager.

 

I really don't see why Williams gets credit from anybody.

 

HAHHAH yet all of these pieces got them to the WS. Why the hate? Is it bitterness? Hey, I'm a Cubs fan and I give credit where it's due. KW deserves credit for winning.

[Andy]

Trading one sucky pitcher (Loaiza) for another one in Contreras is not laudable.

 

Neither is picking up a guy who hadn't had a full-season ERA below 4.06 since 1998 (Hermanson).

 

Nor is signing a bar-fighting, arm-burning lunatic like Bobby Jenks.

 

Nor is picking up an injury-prone strikeout king in Dye.

 

Nor is hiring a classless arrogant ass as manager.

 

I really don't see why Williams gets credit from anybody.

 

HAHHAH yet all of these pieces got them to the WS. Why the hate? Is it bitterness? Hey, I'm a Cubs fan and I give credit where it's due. KW deserves credit for winning.

It's bitterness, yes, but all these moves were much more likely to be bad ones than good ones. The fact that all of these guys ended up having their best years ever (or in Dye's case, his best year this millennium anyway) is just plain lucky.

[YearofDaCubs]

Trading one sucky pitcher (Loaiza) for another one in Contreras is not laudable.

 

Neither is picking up a guy who hadn't had a full-season ERA below 4.06 since 1998 (Hermanson).

 

Nor is signing a bar-fighting, arm-burning lunatic like Bobby Jenks.

 

Nor is picking up an injury-prone strikeout king in Dye.

 

Nor is hiring a classless arrogant ass as manager.

 

I really don't see why Williams gets credit from anybody.

 

HAHHAH yet all of these pieces got them to the WS. Why the hate? Is it bitterness? Hey, I'm a Cubs fan and I give credit where it's due. KW deserves credit for winning.

It's bitterness, yes, but all these moves were much more likely to be bad ones than good ones. The fact that all of these guys ended up having their best years ever (or in Dye's case, his best year this millennium anyway) is just plain lucky.

I call BS. It is not lucky. It was risky yes but some of these players were quality. A team wins a WS and it's all about luck? Come on. There's more to it than that.

[Andy]

The players were quality. I'm not hating on the players. The Sox were a good team, I just don't think Williams deserves credit for making the offense worse and picking up pitchers that I doubt even he could possibly have thought were going to play that well.

[BigbadB]

The White Sox season just proves what can happen if you have solid pitching and they stay healthy all year. They were definitely weaker on offense than the previous year, but they made the best of the offense they had.

 

I really liked the Thome deal. Bringing back Konerko was a pretty big deal for them as well. If they make a deal for Vazquez, I'd imagine their chances of winning the division will be theirs for the taking once again.

 

And I can't stand the Sox. They didn't sit on their hands when it appeared Konerko might go elsewhere. They got themselves some insurance by trading for Thome. Now that they have both, they have a top notch middle of the order.

 

Hendry appeared to spend his entire offseason salivating over a guy who ended up signing with the Dodgers. I guess it's not a good idea to ignore the most glaring hole in your outfield, courting a guy (Furcal) where you not only had a good in house candidate to fill that position (Cedeno), but could have brought back Nomar for half the price as insurance in the event that Furcal went elsewhere.

 

I've never thought much of Kenny Williams. But, I'm thinking a whole lot less of Hendry. Unless he wows me with a couple of late offseason pickups, I will want him gone.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Trading one sucky pitcher (Loaiza) for another one in Contreras is not laudable.

 

Neither is picking up a guy who hadn't had a full-season ERA below 4.06 since 1998 (Hermanson).

 

Nor is signing a bar-fighting, arm-burning lunatic like Bobby Jenks.

 

Nor is picking up an injury-prone strikeout king in Dye.

 

Nor is hiring a classless arrogant ass as manager.

 

I really don't see why Williams gets credit from anybody.

 

HAHHAH yet all of these pieces got them to the WS. Why the hate? Is it bitterness? Hey, I'm a Cubs fan and I give credit where it's due. KW deserves credit for winning.

It's bitterness, yes, but all these moves were much more likely to be bad ones than good ones. The fact that all of these guys ended up having their best years ever (or in Dye's case, his best year this millennium anyway) is just plain lucky.

I call BS. It is not lucky. It was risky yes but some of these players were quality. A team wins a WS and it's all about luck? Come on. There's more to it than that.

 

So if the Cubs win the WS this year, does that make all the bad moves Hendry made good? Of course not. Every team has a chance to win the WS, winning it doesn't mean you made the right moves, or even competent ones.

[YearofDaCubs]

Trading one sucky pitcher (Loaiza) for another one in Contreras is not laudable.

 

Neither is picking up a guy who hadn't had a full-season ERA below 4.06 since 1998 (Hermanson).

 

Nor is signing a bar-fighting, arm-burning lunatic like Bobby Jenks.

 

Nor is picking up an injury-prone strikeout king in Dye.

 

Nor is hiring a classless arrogant ass as manager.

 

I really don't see why Williams gets credit from anybody.

 

HAHHAH yet all of these pieces got them to the WS. Why the hate? Is it bitterness? Hey, I'm a Cubs fan and I give credit where it's due. KW deserves credit for winning.

It's bitterness, yes, but all these moves were much more likely to be bad ones than good ones. The fact that all of these guys ended up having their best years ever (or in Dye's case, his best year this millennium anyway) is just plain lucky.

I call BS. It is not lucky. It was risky yes but some of these players were quality. A team wins a WS and it's all about luck? Come on. There's more to it than that.

 

So if the Cubs win the WS this year, does that make all the bad moves Hendry made good? Of course not. Every team has a chance to win the WS, winning it doesn't mean you made the right moves, or even competent ones.

The white sox had Rowand who the previous year had a breakout year yet didn't do so great last year. Dye was a solid pickup for them in RF. Podsednik was their leadoff hitter. Upgraded the catcher position. The pitchers were huge for them but let's not forget most of them came here via trade, waiver pickups, and FA signings. He also picked the manager to take them to the WS. A manager that is better than ours. If we win the WS I will give credit to Hendry, the manager, and the players for getting us there and winning. It's a combination of a lot of things and not all luck. The White Sox did it, we are still waiting and probably for a long time to come.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Trading one sucky pitcher (Loaiza) for another one in Contreras is not laudable.

 

Neither is picking up a guy who hadn't had a full-season ERA below 4.06 since 1998 (Hermanson).

 

Nor is signing a bar-fighting, arm-burning lunatic like Bobby Jenks.

 

Nor is picking up an injury-prone strikeout king in Dye.

 

Nor is hiring a classless arrogant ass as manager.

 

I really don't see why Williams gets credit from anybody.

 

HAHHAH yet all of these pieces got them to the WS. Why the hate? Is it bitterness? Hey, I'm a Cubs fan and I give credit where it's due. KW deserves credit for winning.

It's bitterness, yes, but all these moves were much more likely to be bad ones than good ones. The fact that all of these guys ended up having their best years ever (or in Dye's case, his best year this millennium anyway) is just plain lucky.

I call BS. It is not lucky. It was risky yes but some of these players were quality. A team wins a WS and it's all about luck? Come on. There's more to it than that.

 

So if the Cubs win the WS this year, does that make all the bad moves Hendry made good? Of course not. Every team has a chance to win the WS, winning it doesn't mean you made the right moves, or even competent ones.

The white sox had Rowand who the previous year had a breakout year yet didn't do so great last year. Dye was a solid pickup for them in RF. Podsednik was their leadoff hitter. Upgraded the catcher position. The pitchers were huge for them but let's not forget most of them came here via trade, waiver pickups, and FA signings. He also picked the manager to take them to the WS. A manager that is better than ours. If we win the WS I will give credit to Hendry, the manager, and the players for getting us there and winning. It's a combination of a lot of things and not all luck. The White Sox did it, we are still waiting and probably for a long time to come.

 

If you want to argue that Williams made good moves, go ahead. I'll disagree mostly, but that's different than saying "He won a WS, so he's good". That's just backward logic.