Question for this board - Cards payroll

[indifferent]

Should Cards fans feel lied to by the owners in keeping payroll the same as last year? Statements were made by the owners that they would increase payroll with the new stadium. I'm interested in Cubs fans take. It's been discussed ad nauseum on the Cards boards.

 

Those that say no believe either the increases occurred prior to this year in anticipation of the new stadium or that they made these statements prior to knowing how much of the bill they were footing.

 

Those that say yes took their statements literally, believing that they made these statements, the stadium is now opening in 06 and payroll is not increasing.

[sethuel1]

If I were a Cards fan, I'd be pretty pissed off about it.

[vaball]

This Cards fan feels lied to. We'll see what Walt can pull out of his bag o' tricks to make up for it. I'm not optimistic.

[Bull]

Should Cards fans feel lied to by the owners in keeping payroll the same as last year? Statements were made by the owners that they would increase payroll with the new stadium. I'm interested in Cubs fans take. It's been discussed ad nauseum on the Cards boards.

 

Those that say no believe either the increases occurred prior to this year in anticipation of the new stadium or that they made these statements prior to knowing how much of the bill they were footing.

 

Those that say yes took their statements literally, believing that they made these statements, the stadium is now opening in 06 and payroll is not increasing.

That has always been my understanding.

 

2002 - $72 million

2004 - $83.2

2005 - $92.1

stl business journal

[goonys evil twin]

I don't know, if I was a Cards fan, and had enjoyed the history of success that STL has enjoyed, I'd be willing to wait and see how things turn out. They should be able to raise payroll a reasonable level each year, given the new revenues. I'm sure part of it was put into previous increases though.

[indifferent]

I don't know, if I was a Cards fan, and had enjoyed the history of success that STL has enjoyed, I'd be willing to wait and see how things turn out. They should be able to raise payroll a reasonable level each year, given the new revenues. I'm sure part of it was put into previous increases though.

 

Given the reasoning you used, I'm not ready to string up the owners just yet, but I'm not big on the "wait and see" approach. By then it will be too late. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but it seems suspect to pick this year of all years to keep payroll the same.

[radarluv1]

how long ago did the new stadium get approved? if they started using the new stadium money before the new stadium deal was finalized, then this excuse doesnt hold any water. i also want to know how much they made selling off busch 2 stuff. its got to be in the millions.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

I feel lied to, you'd think the owners would atleast increase the payroll by a few million. It's hard to complain about a 92m payroll for a market the size of St. Louis though.

[CubinNY]

Yes, all Card fans should be pissed. And I mean royally. In fact, I think all Cardinal fans should stay away from the ballpark in droves. And the ones who do go should refrain from wearing those ridiculus red shirts. In addition, the outrage should be such that every Cardinal fan in Illinois should raise their children to be Cub fans.

[SouthSideRyan]

I understand that that money very well may have been used to up payroll in the past few years, but I think the Cardinal organization was at least somewhat misleading when talking about payroll with regards to the new stadium.

[BigbadB]

I'm a bit torn on this one. As a fan, I'd probably be a bit upset. But, at the same time, I don't think the team "really" needed to match last year's budget to put a good team on the field. They were the best team in the NL. Keeping the pitching staff intact, and looking for possible cheap roster filler (role players) shouldn't have broken the bank.

 

I probably would have brought back Grudz and Sanders. Then maybe a lefty bat for the other corner and call it good.

 

The problem becomes justifying the raise in ticket prices that will surely take place to enter the new ballpark.

 

The Padres increased their ticket prices dramatically for their new park. They were 5th or 6th overall in attendance, and they still don't spend squat on their team. They were willing to let Giles, Hoffman AND Ramon Hernandez walk. Now that 2 of the 3 are back, they made a horrible trade of Loretta (3m in the final year of his contract) for a back up catcher just to save a measily 1.6m in cash.

 

The Cardinals will bounce back. And they may not be done wheeling and dealing. Only the hardcore Cardinal fan notices that the team spent less on the roster from the previous year, which probably won't hurt the turnstyles one bit.

 

Didn't the Cardinals have great attendance in the final year of the old Busch? I was there twice and the seats were filled.

 

But, I feel for ya. I hope the Cardinals are lousy next year.

[Chief_Cardinal]

As a Cards fan I do not feel lied to by the ownership. They made it clear that the rise in payroll the past few years was a result of a new stadium coming. We still have one of the best GM's in MLB and I am sure he will put a good team on the field. I think there is a lot of overreacting right now. I do think resigning Sanders should of been a priority, especially once Giles came off the market. For a small market team, STL still has a pretty good sized payroll, so to me the complaining is unnecessary. They still have the core of the team, they are still the team to beat in the central.

 

The question was asked about when the new stadium plans began. They orginally announced the plans for it in April of 2000, but I don't think the financial part got close to settled till the summer of 03.

[K-Town]

I'm a Cardinals fan, but Missourians basically said "screw you" when it came to financing a new stadium. Now, all of a sudden, they want to reap the benefits of the new stadium. Anybody who criticizes Cardinal ownership is hypocritical.

[vaball]

I'm a Cardinals fan, but Missourians basically said "screw you" when it came to financing a new stadium. Now, all of a sudden, they want to reap the benefits of the new stadium. Anybody who criticizes Cardinal ownership is hypocritical.

 

Ha! Missourians said "screw you" when billionaires attempted to strong arm the taxpayers into financing a new stadium, the only purpose of which is to increase revenue for said billionaires. Don't get me wrong, I love the Cardinals with all my heart, but tax money, especially in a time of huge budget deficits, should not go to building cash cows for private billionaires and their millionaire employees.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm a Cardinals fan, but Missourians basically said "screw you" when it came to financing a new stadium. Now, all of a sudden, they want to reap the benefits of the new stadium. Anybody who criticizes Cardinal ownership is hypocritical.

 

Ha! Missourians said "screw you" when billionaires attempted to strong arm the taxpayers into financing a new stadium, the only purpose of which is to increase revenue for said billionaires. Don't get me wrong, I love the Cardinals with all my heart, but tax money, especially in a time of huge budget deficits, should not go to building cash cows for private billionaires and their millionaire employees.

 

Selig's mafia will be by soon to silence you.

[vaball]

I'm a Cardinals fan, but Missourians basically said "screw you" when it came to financing a new stadium. Now, all of a sudden, they want to reap the benefits of the new stadium. Anybody who criticizes Cardinal ownership is hypocritical.

 

Ha! Missourians said "screw you" when billionaires attempted to strong arm the taxpayers into financing a new stadium, the only purpose of which is to increase revenue for said billionaires. Don't get me wrong, I love the Cardinals with all my heart, but tax money, especially in a time of huge budget deficits, should not go to building cash cows for private billionaires and their millionaire employees.

 

Selig's mafia will be by soon to silence you.

 

If I don't post for a few days somebody tell the police who did it.

 

And if I have to sacrifice my life so that Selig can never install the DH in the NL, I will not have lived in vain.

[K-Town]

I'm a Cardinals fan, but Missourians basically said "screw you" when it came to financing a new stadium. Now, all of a sudden, they want to reap the benefits of the new stadium. Anybody who criticizes Cardinal ownership is hypocritical.

 

Ha! Missourians said "screw you" when billionaires attempted to strong arm the taxpayers into financing a new stadium, the only purpose of which is to increase revenue for said billionaires. Don't get me wrong, I love the Cardinals with all my heart, but tax money, especially in a time of huge budget deficits, should not go to building cash cows for private billionaires and their millionaire employees.

 

The city of St. Louis will benefit greatly from the new stadium. Don't kid yourself. The owners are to thank for that.

 

You're one of those people who wants nothing but the very best, as long as somebody else is paying for it.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The city of St. Louis will benefit greatly from the new stadium. Don't kid yourself. The owners are to thank for that.

 

You're one of those people who wants nothing but the very best, as long as somebody else is paying for it.

 

Will they benefit hundreds of millions of dollars more than if Busch had just been kept around?

[SouthSideRyan]

 

You're one of those people who wants nothing but the very best, as long as somebody else is paying for it.

 

Sounds like he should be a baseball owner!

[jam1975]

I'm a Cardinals fan, but Missourians basically said "screw you" when it came to financing a new stadium. Now, all of a sudden, they want to reap the benefits of the new stadium. Anybody who criticizes Cardinal ownership is hypocritical.

 

Ha! Missourians said "screw you" when billionaires attempted to strong arm the taxpayers into financing a new stadium, the only purpose of which is to increase revenue for said billionaires. Don't get me wrong, I love the Cardinals with all my heart, but tax money, especially in a time of huge budget deficits, should not go to building cash cows for private billionaires and their millionaire employees.

 

The city of St. Louis will benefit greatly from the new stadium. Don't kid yourself. The owners are to thank for that.

 

You're one of those people who wants nothing but the very best, as long as somebody else is paying for it.

 

But why should the rest of the state have to pay for it?

[vaball]

I'm a Cardinals fan, but Missourians basically said "screw you" when it came to financing a new stadium. Now, all of a sudden, they want to reap the benefits of the new stadium. Anybody who criticizes Cardinal ownership is hypocritical.

 

Ha! Missourians said "screw you" when billionaires attempted to strong arm the taxpayers into financing a new stadium, the only purpose of which is to increase revenue for said billionaires. Don't get me wrong, I love the Cardinals with all my heart, but tax money, especially in a time of huge budget deficits, should not go to building cash cows for private billionaires and their millionaire employees.

 

The city of St. Louis will benefit greatly from the new stadium. Don't kid yourself. The owners are to thank for that.

 

You're one of those people who wants nothing but the very best, as long as somebody else is paying for it.

 

You mean like it benefitted greatly from Busch II, the purported savior of downtown St. Louis? Oh, wait. Don't forget, the Cardinals did get over $100 million from the city, county, and state in various bond sales and tax apportionments. Does that count as a "screw you?"

 

You should do some research on how publicly financing new stadiums has revitilized urban areas. I'll save you the time; it rarely does.

 

You're one of those people who would probably let the local school district cancel after school programs because of budget shortfalls in favor of a tax cut for the rich.

[K-Town]

I'm a Cardinals fan, but Missourians basically said "screw you" when it came to financing a new stadium. Now, all of a sudden, they want to reap the benefits of the new stadium. Anybody who criticizes Cardinal ownership is hypocritical.

 

Ha! Missourians said "screw you" when billionaires attempted to strong arm the taxpayers into financing a new stadium, the only purpose of which is to increase revenue for said billionaires. Don't get me wrong, I love the Cardinals with all my heart, but tax money, especially in a time of huge budget deficits, should not go to building cash cows for private billionaires and their millionaire employees.

 

The city of St. Louis will benefit greatly from the new stadium. Don't kid yourself. The owners are to thank for that.

 

You're one of those people who wants nothing but the very best, as long as somebody else is paying for it.

 

You mean like it benefitted greatly from Busch II, the purported savior of downtown St. Louis? Oh, wait. Don't forget, the Cardinals did get over $100 million from the city, county, and state in various bond sales and tax apportionments. Does that count as a "screw you?"

 

You should do some research on how publicly financing new stadiums has revitilized urban areas. I'll save you the time; it rarely does.

 

You're one of those people who would probably let the local school district cancel after school programs because of budget shortfalls in favor of a tax cut for the rich.

 

Illinois was willing to pay for a stadium for the Cardinals. You think there might be a reason for that?

 

Busch Stadium actually DID revitalize downtown St. Louis.

 

The point is that the owners are building a new stadium, have raised payroll to the point of being in the top 6 in all of baseball (despite being bottom 1/3 in market size), have consistently put a high-level product on the field, etc. Yet for some people, it will never be enough. Personally, I'd rather have them continue to spend the money wisely (which they have done), rather than simply spend more of it.

 

It's THEIR money. THEY are the ones making the investment, and reports say that they lost money every year until last year. If they want to pocket a little bit, then so what? Wouldn't you? Hey........ there's any idea!! You figure out a way to making billions of dollars, then YOU can show us how to run a baseball team. It's always fun spending money......... when it's somebody else's money.

[vaball]

I'm a Cardinals fan, but Missourians basically said "screw you" when it came to financing a new stadium. Now, all of a sudden, they want to reap the benefits of the new stadium. Anybody who criticizes Cardinal ownership is hypocritical.

 

Ha! Missourians said "screw you" when billionaires attempted to strong arm the taxpayers into financing a new stadium, the only purpose of which is to increase revenue for said billionaires. Don't get me wrong, I love the Cardinals with all my heart, but tax money, especially in a time of huge budget deficits, should not go to building cash cows for private billionaires and their millionaire employees.

 

The city of St. Louis will benefit greatly from the new stadium. Don't kid yourself. The owners are to thank for that.

 

You're one of those people who wants nothing but the very best, as long as somebody else is paying for it.

 

You mean like it benefitted greatly from Busch II, the purported savior of downtown St. Louis? Oh, wait. Don't forget, the Cardinals did get over $100 million from the city, county, and state in various bond sales and tax apportionments. Does that count as a "screw you?"

 

You should do some research on how publicly financing new stadiums has revitilized urban areas. I'll save you the time; it rarely does.

 

You're one of those people who would probably let the local school district cancel after school programs because of budget shortfalls in favor of a tax cut for the rich.

 

Illinois was willing to pay for a stadium for the Cardinals. You think there might be a reason for that?

 

Busch Stadium actually DID revitalize downtown St. Louis.

 

The point is that the owners are building a new stadium, have raised payroll to the point of being in the top 6 in all of baseball (despite being bottom 1/3 in market size), have consistently put a high-level product on the field, etc. Yet for some people, it will never be enough. Personally, I'd rather have them continue to spend the money wisely (which they have done), rather than simply spend more of it.

 

It's THEIR money. THEY are the ones making the investment, and reports say that they lost money every year until last year. If they want to pocket a little bit, then so what? Wouldn't you? Hey........ there's any idea!! You figure out a way to making billions of dollars, then YOU can show us how to run a baseball team. It's always fun spending money......... when it's somebody else's money.

 

Do you live in St. Louis? Is there any way that downtown St. Louis can be construed as vitalized?

 

Personally, I think the owners are great. They have done a tremendous job since they bought the team. I'm glad they didn't give Burnett 5/55. I'm glad they're building a new stadium. Nowhere in my posts did I tell them how to spend their money. All I said was that the stadium should not have been financed with tax dollars.

 

But had it been, would you be saying that the people of Missouri should be allowed to vote on Cardinals' team moves? Because it would then be THEIR money that built the stadium.

[UK1679666180]

If the rumors about LaRussa/Jocketty being upset with management not expanding payroll to the point where they could include Grudzielanek, then I think fans have equal right to be upset with it.

 

But, they had offers to Morris and Burnett that were greater than what the salaries of Rincon and Looper have totaled. They still have money to burn, just not much to spend it on.

[SouthSideRyan]

vaball pretty much sums up what I would say, but the Cardinals owners WERE NOT losing money the past 5 years. The books in baseball are so cooked it's ridiculous.