Want Tejada? Trade ARam

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

wow. i don't think i'd trade Ramirez straight across for Tejada.

 

Neither would I. Aramis is better than Miggy.

Is he better when you factor durability into the equation?

 

Tim, this past September was the longest extended period of time missed for Aramis since 2002. He's got to cure the nagging hammy issue, but it's not like he's the second coming of Alou, or Nomar even. His durability is not that big of a concern.

Yeah, but we're comparing him to baseball's current iron man. It is a factor.

 

My only real complaint with Tejada is that he walked less in three of the past five years than Corey did in 2004.

 

As the reason for Billy Beane's colorful name for him.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Using VORP Rate(I don't like VORP very much anyways), in 2005:

 

Tejada: .419

Mora: .260

 

Total: .679

 

Ramirez: .407

Lugo: .303

 

Total: .710

Part of the argument here is durability, though, so I don't like using rate stats when that's the case.

 

Ramirez+Lugo = 43 Win Shares, 36 offensive

Tejada+Mora = 45 Win Shares, 36 offensive

[Tim]

Using VORP Rate(I don't like VORP very much anyways), in 2005:

 

Tejada: .419

Mora: .260

 

Total: .679

 

Ramirez: .407

Lugo: .303

 

Total: .710

Part of the argument here is durability, though, so I don't like using rate stats when that's the case.

 

Ramirez+Lugo = 43 Win Shares, 36 offensive

Tejada+Mora = 45 Win Shares, 36 offensive

And I don't like Win Shares at all. :D

 

Let's look at it this way:

 

Tejada is the best offensive SS in baseball still playing SS. Bar none.

 

I'd put ARam behind:

 

- ARod

- Wright

- Ensberg

- Chipper

- Rolen

 

 

Again, don't get me wrong. I really like ARam. But Tejada is a better SS than ARam is a 3B. But I'll emphasize again that I wouldn't do the trade if I had to give up Aramis.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Using VORP Rate(I don't like VORP very much anyways), in 2005:

 

Tejada: .419

Mora: .260

 

Total: .679

 

Ramirez: .407

Lugo: .303

 

Total: .710

Part of the argument here is durability, though, so I don't like using rate stats when that's the case.

 

Ramirez+Lugo = 43 Win Shares, 36 offensive

Tejada+Mora = 45 Win Shares, 36 offensive

And I don't like Win Shares at all. :D

 

Let's look at it this way:

 

Tejada is the best offensive SS in baseball still playing SS. Bar none.

 

I'd put ARam behind:

 

- ARod

- Wright

- Ensberg

- Chipper

- Rolen

 

 

Again, don't get me wrong. I really like ARam. But Tejada is a better SS than ARam is a 3B. But I'll emphasize again that I wouldn't do the trade if I had to give up Aramis.

 

I'm not a Win Shares fan either. The point is though, that even though Tejada is better relative to his position, his production is higher than Tejada's so that a weaker SS relative to an alternative 3B still makes it a better combination.

 

I also think rate stats are better to look at it, since Ramirez isn't that stricken, and none of the other players have had serious injury issues.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I think this is all a moot point. Even if Hendry was crazy enough to construct a deal in which Aramis was going to be dealt, I think MacPhail or above would put the brakes on it unless ARod and salary relief were somehow also arriving with Miggy.

 

Edit: Now THAT would be a nice lineup.

[Warpticon]

Using VORP Rate(I don't like VORP very much anyways), in 2005:

 

Tejada: .419

Mora: .260

 

Total: .679

 

Ramirez: .407

Lugo: .303

 

Total: .710

Part of the argument here is durability, though, so I don't like using rate stats when that's the case.

 

Ramirez+Lugo = 43 Win Shares, 36 offensive

Tejada+Mora = 45 Win Shares, 36 offensive

And I don't like Win Shares at all. :D

 

Let's look at it this way:

 

Tejada is the best offensive SS in baseball still playing SS. Bar none.

 

I'd put ARam behind:

 

- ARod

- Wright

- Ensberg

- Chipper

- Rolen

 

 

Again, don't get me wrong. I really like ARam. But Tejada is a better SS than ARam is a 3B. But I'll emphasize again that I wouldn't do the trade if I had to give up Aramis.

 

Okay, I don't understand.

 

ARod? Absolutely. Wright? Very, very well-rounded and young. Justifiable. Chipper? Maybe, but his health has been as big an issue as Ramirez's--more so, actually, and the production has been comparable. Rolen is generally better, but until he's proven healthy, there are serious question marks. But...

 

Ensberg? Did you forget 2004? Great 2005, fine 2003, but '04 was garbage. Not exactly consistent. And he's two years older than Ramirez, to boot. Considering he didn't blow Ramirez away in 2005 in terms of production, and Ramirez *did* blow Ensberg away in '04, I'd certianly value Ramirez higher right now.

 

 

With Lowell gone from Florida, though, you could have included Cabrera and certainly would have gotten no argument.

[Tim]

Using VORP Rate(I don't like VORP very much anyways), in 2005:

 

Tejada: .419

Mora: .260

 

Total: .679

 

Ramirez: .407

Lugo: .303

 

Total: .710

Part of the argument here is durability, though, so I don't like using rate stats when that's the case.

 

Ramirez+Lugo = 43 Win Shares, 36 offensive

Tejada+Mora = 45 Win Shares, 36 offensive

And I don't like Win Shares at all. :D

 

Let's look at it this way:

 

Tejada is the best offensive SS in baseball still playing SS. Bar none.

 

I'd put ARam behind:

 

- ARod

- Wright

- Ensberg

- Chipper

- Rolen

 

 

Again, don't get me wrong. I really like ARam. But Tejada is a better SS than ARam is a 3B. But I'll emphasize again that I wouldn't do the trade if I had to give up Aramis.

 

Okay, I don't understand.

 

ARod? Absolutely. Wright? Very, very well-rounded and young. Justifiable. Chipper? Maybe, but his health has been as big an issue as Ramirez's--more so, actually, and the production has been comparable. Rolen is generally better, but until he's proven healthy, there are serious question marks. But...

 

Ensberg? Did you forget 2004? Great 2005, fine 2003, but '04 was garbage. Not exactly consistent. And he's two years older than Ramirez, to boot. Considering he didn't blow Ramirez away in 2005 in terms of production, and Ramirez *did* blow Ensberg away in '04, I'd certianly value Ramirez higher right now.

 

 

With Lowell gone from Florida, though, you could have included Cabrera and certainly would have gotten no argument.

Alright, sub in Cabrera for Ensberg on that list, then.

 

BTW - I notice you don't have anyone that you're trying to claim is better than Tejada, but you'll concede at least several guys in front of ARam and admit that a few more are justifiable. At SS, nobody's even close to Miggy anymore.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

BTW - I notice you don't have anyone that you're trying to claim is better than Tejada, but you'll concede at least several guys in front of ARam and admit that a few more are justifiable. At SS, nobody's even close to Miggy anymore.

 

Young, Jeter, Peralta

[Geech]

Jeter is definitely a name that keeps popping up in my head when people talk about Tejada compared to other shortstops. His career OPS is comparable, but he actually has a good OBP so he's probably more valuable offensively than Tejada.

[Tim]

BTW - I notice you don't have anyone that you're trying to claim is better than Tejada, but you'll concede at least several guys in front of ARam and admit that a few more are justifiable. At SS, nobody's even close to Miggy anymore.

 

Young, Jeter, Peralta

Young is purely a creature of Arlington. As you know quite well.

 

Jeter's peak was many moons ago and hasn't been Tejada's equal in some time. And his defensive issues drag his value at SS down quite a bit.

 

Peralta needs to do it for more than one year to prove it.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

BTW - I notice you don't have anyone that you're trying to claim is better than Tejada, but you'll concede at least several guys in front of ARam and admit that a few more are justifiable. At SS, nobody's even close to Miggy anymore.

 

Young, Jeter, Peralta

 

Peralta can't even spell his own name right. :)

[Andy]

BTW - I notice you don't have anyone that you're trying to claim is better than Tejada, but you'll concede at least several guys in front of ARam and admit that a few more are justifiable. At SS, nobody's even close to Miggy anymore.

 

Young, Jeter, Peralta

Young is purely a creature of Arlington. As you know quite well.

 

Jeter's peak was many moons ago and hasn't been Tejada's equal in some time. And his defensive issues drag his value at SS down quite a bit.

 

Peralta needs to do it for more than one year to prove it.

He's won two Gold Gloves, dude! *sarcasm*

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Young is purely a creature of Arlington. As you know quite well.

 

Maybe a couple of years prior, but I think he proved that to be a myth in '05.

 

Home:

331/386/527/913

 

Away:

330/384/500/884

[Tim]

Young is purely a creature of Arlington. As you know quite well.

 

Maybe a couple of years prior, but I think he proved that to be a myth in '05.

 

Home:

331/386/527/913

 

Away:

330/384/500/884

Now show the three year averages...

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Young is purely a creature of Arlington. As you know quite well.

 

Maybe a couple of years prior, but I think he proved that to be a myth in '05.

 

Home:

331/386/527/913

 

Away:

330/384/500/884

Now show the three year averages...

 

I've already agreed with you on the years prior. The numbers he put up last year are far too consistent to be considered a fluke. The guy is good.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Young is purely a creature of Arlington. As you know quite well.

 

Maybe a couple of years prior, but I think he proved that to be a myth in '05.

 

Home:

331/386/527/913

 

Away:

330/384/500/884

Now show the three year averages...

 

You said that no one was close to Tejada anymore, and there were several guys that were very close, and Young was better.

[jjgman21]

Young is purely a creature of Arlington. As you know quite well.

 

Maybe a couple of years prior, but I think he proved that to be a myth in '05.

 

Home:

331/386/527/913

 

Away:

330/384/500/884

Now show the three year averages...

 

You said that no one was close to Tejada anymore, and there were several guys that were very close, and Young was better.

 

actually, Peralta was better too, playing in a pitchers park.

 

also, Tejada's road spits were pretty pedestrian last year too.

 

but I know what Tim is saying. SS production is a premium and Young and Peralta aren't available. even so, I think we could get comparable production without trading the farm like it will take to get Tejada.

[NCCubFan]

Peralta needs to do it for more than one year to prove it.

My Roadkill team is counting on him doing just that. :D

[NorthsideAvenger]

I maybe bizarre (to which I hope you guys consider my bizarre, cause that would be a badge of honor)but I hope Hendry lands Tejada if for nothing else, it would allow me to use the following statement:

 

Miggy hit the piggy out of the ballPawk.

[BigbadB]

Has anyone suggested trading ARam for Tejada, then signing Nomar for 3B?

 

Just food for thought.

 

I would have offered arby to Nomar. Though I'm not sure he would have accepted after the whole "we are going a different direction" fiasco.

 

My suggestion from the first day of the offseason is take care of your in house guys first, then figure out how to upgrade from there. Not only did I think Nomar could be re-signed for 4-5m plus incentives on a 1 year deal, but it's looking very apparent that no other team wants to give him more than that.

 

The Cubs could have re-signed Nomar, and they could still have worked on signing Furcal.

 

Who would be complaining about Nomar playing RF for this Cub team at a base salary of 4m while Miguel Tejada played SS?

 

If the Cubs didn't get Furcal (which they didn't), and they don't get Tejada (which is up in the air), and they trade Walker (which has sounded like the plan all along), wouldn't Nomar have been a nice back up plan at SS?

 

IF the Cubs would have kept Nomar, I think trading Aramis to Baltimore in a package that returned Tejada AND Mora would have been a pretty good deal for the Cubs. Ramirez can opt out of his contract after the '06 season. Tejada is relatively cheap for his production.

 

But, Nomar isn't coming back, so I don't think any trade involving Ramirez is going to work. Ramirez for Tejada doesn't do a thing offensively for the Cubs.