Marlins trade Castillo to Twins (Complete)

[gflore34]

I think Hendry defending is the new Dusty defending. People pretty much gave up defending Dusty after repeated errors in judgement. I wonder how long the defense of Hendry will last.

 

 

Why is it wrong to express disappointment when your team doesn't get a player that could help your team and was acquired by somebody else for not a whole lot?

 

 

 

Castillo wasn't a must have in my mind, but again, if Hendry is insisting on trading Walker, there's only a couple guys out there who can replace him, Castillo was one. And if Walker is traded, and these other options are no longer available, that just makes it more likely that Neifi will see a lot of playing time next year.

 

It's December and Hendry has yet to do a thing to improve the biggest problem on the team, people should be allowed to be concerned.

 

I don't know if its restlessness or what but, at every turn, Hendry' letting the Cubs be upstaged by White Sox. First the WS now, the Sox trade for Thome and resign Konerko and what has Hendry done? Sign a couple of over priced middle relievers, Nefi the Great and made the infamous trade for a PTNL, way to go Jimbo.

Edited December 2, 2005 by gflore34

[gflore34]

You get someone like Bradley, Michaels, or even Pierre for CF and get a quality RF'er Dunn, Abreu, or to a lesser extent Huff and Furcal doesn't become a must have.

 

Obviously, that's a nearly impossible task at this stage as far as improving the OF to that extent, but it should be the goal, even at the expense of Furcal.

 

To me, it shouldn't depend on Furcal as far as how much to improve the OF as Furcal doesn't improve the OF.

 

For me, the main reason Furcal is must have is Baker' illogical loyalty to Nefi, I believe, many of us would be content with Walker - despite his defensive shortcomings - and Cedeno.

 

You can't "dumb" a team down b/c of a manager, I think they've done it to an extent with the bullpen this off-season as far as taking away the need for Baker to become creative with his pen to try and make it productive. This isn't my opinion but, if you have to overspend on Furcal to prevent the manager from playing the wrong guy, there are huge issues beyond those players involved.

 

Personally, I'll give Baker the benefit of the doubt as far as starting Cedeno over Perez. If it doesn't work out that way simply b/c of Neifi's expereince, I'll be furious.

 

But, we've already seen it, in many regards, if Furcal doesn't sign, Cedeno-Perez is Hollandsworth-Dubois II and we all know how that played out.

[bc2k]

Without having any knowledge of the prosepects given up by the Twins, Luis Castillo typifies Twins baseball and is an excellent acquisition for them.

[UK1679666180]

Thankfully, I don't think Hendry has altered his approach based on the Sox winning it all.

 

I think Hendry has flaws in his approach as GM and we seen them vividly last year, but those flaws were there before the Sox WS. Those flaws are what make me question Hendry's tenure and more importantly his future tenure with the team.

 

He strikes me as the type that puts an extreme amount of pressure on himself regardless of the situation, probably how he made it from coaching at Creighton to GM of a historic franchise in a relative short amount of time.

[HerbalK]

The Twins traded Travis Bower to the Marlins as part of the Luis Castillo deal.

During the 2005 season, Bower had 99 strikeouts and 51 hits allowed in 74 1/3 IP. Potentially, he is a candidate to close for the Marlins in 2006.

 

From rotoworld.

 

Who were we going to send that could match that? Hill? When apparently he wouldn't be sent for Dunn? I would have liked Castillo as well, but it looks like the Marlins got solid value for him.

 

1.32 WHIP, 10.59 K/9, 7.14 H/9, 4.76 BB/9, 0.71 HR/9

 

1.22 WHIP, 11.62 K/9, 6.17 H/9, 4.84 BB/9, 0.48 HR/9

 

One of these is Bowyer's numbers at AAA, and the other is Wuertz's numbers at the Major League level.

 

Well-played.

[UK1679666180]

But, we've already seen it, in many regards, if Furcal doesn't sign, Cedeno-Perez is Hollandsworth-Dubois II and we all know how that played out.

 

I'm optimistic it won't happen, I didn't say I'd be blindsided if Perez starts over Cedeno at SS. :)

[Mizzou]

Walker, Hairston, Cedeno, Neifi.

 

All of the above are capable of playing second base every day, and all of them are already on the team. I don't understand people's surprise that Hendry didn't get Castillo.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Loduca and Pierre are next. If you're going to tear it down and rebuild it, you might as well do it right. It might drive the fans away? They only had about 5000 of those anyway.

 

From what I've heard, Girardi wants the Marlins to KEEP LaDuca, so that he can help the incredibly young pitching staff keep it together. So, I doubt LaDuca will be dealt, unless it is an offe that blows their minds.

[gflore34]

But, we've already seen it, in many regards, if Furcal doesn't sign, Cedeno-Perez is Hollandsworth-Dubois II and we all know how that played out.

 

I'm optimistic it won't happen, I didn't say I'd be blindsided if Perez starts over Cedeno at SS. :)

 

 

I am as well...

[goonys evil twin]

Walker, Hairston, Cedeno, Neifi.

 

All of the above are capable of playing second base every day, and all of them are already on the team. I don't understand people's surprise that Hendry didn't get Castillo.

 

The problem is, the one guy who is clearly the best in that group is the guy most rumored to be dealt away this offseason. I don't have any faith in any of those other three to come close to Walker's production at 2B. Frankly I'm scared that they won't improve the rest of the team enough to offset the chance that Cedeno might struggle in his first full year.

[RynoRules]

This is the first deal that I am upset about. We could have, had Jim been so inclined, made a better offer than the Twins and taken care of our leadoff hitter and 2B issue in one swoop, leaving Cedeno at SS and freedom to go out and use Walker to get a CF and prospects to get a RF.

 

Now, Jim will have to overpay for Furcal. I am not on the Hendry Bash-Wagon, but I am unhappy.

[Blueheart05]

I think Hendry defending is the new Dusty defending. People pretty much gave up defending Dusty after repeated errors in judgement. I wonder how long the defense of Hendry will last.

 

 

Why is it wrong to express disappointment when your team doesn't get a player that could help your team and was acquired by somebody else for not a whole lot?

 

 

 

Castillo wasn't a must have in my mind, but again, if Hendry is insisting on trading Walker, there's only a couple guys out there who can replace him, Castillo was one. And if Walker is traded, and these other options are no longer available, that just makes it more likely that Neifi will see a lot of playing time next year.

 

It's December and Hendry has yet to do a thing to improve the biggest problem on the team, people should be allowed to be concerned.

 

I don't know if its restlessness or what but, at every turn, Hendry' letting the Cubs be upstaged by White Sox. First the WS now, the Sox trade for Thome and resign Konerko and what has Hendry done? Sign a couple of over priced middle relievers, Nefi the Great and made the infamous trade for a PTNL, way to go Jimbo.

 

 

I don't feel upstaged about the Thome signing. Frankly, he has things to prove coming off of an injury year. Plus, Thome certainly has a cloud of rumor and innuendo following him considering the new rules against performance enhancing drugs... I digress...

 

I think it's obvious Hendry is trying to work other deals. You really can't compare his task to the Sox because he has more holes to fill. Anyway, there will be plenty of time to judge the offseason; the Winter Meetings haven't even started yet. I expect action and if I don't get it I will blast him too.

[erik316wttn]

 

Juan Pierre, your suitcase is packed.

 

Let's hope so. If we land neither Castillo or Pierre, I have a really sick feeling that Hendry is going to overreact and throw a buttload of money at a B-level free agent, and that contract will become an albatross after a few years.

 

Or he'll go out and get a quailty leadoff guy, but give up entirely too much.

[Blueheart05]

This is the first deal that I am upset about. We could have, had Jim been so inclined, made a better offer than the Twins and taken care of our leadoff hitter and 2B issue in one swoop, leaving Cedeno at SS and freedom to go out and use Walker to get a CF and prospects to get a RF.

 

Now, Jim will have to overpay for Furcal. I am not on the Hendry Bash-Wagon, but I am unhappy.

 

Are you really unhappy about it from the perspective that we all knew ahead of time (without knowing the market price) that Hendry would pursue Furcal and (probably) look to play Cedeno at 2B?

 

I don't know if Jim pursued Castillo for second base but it seems reasonable to me that the Cubs have/had plans on allowing Cedeno the opportunity to start at 2B (didn't they switch him to 2B in winterball?)

 

The Marlins (and other teams) aren't going to wait and, considering what we already know, having Cedeno play SS would be a backup plan (all this while theoretically plan A is still viable).

[gflore34]

I think Hendry defending is the new Dusty defending. People pretty much gave up defending Dusty after repeated errors in judgement. I wonder how long the defense of Hendry will last.

 

 

Why is it wrong to express disappointment when your team doesn't get a player that could help your team and was acquired by somebody else for not a whole lot?

 

 

 

Castillo wasn't a must have in my mind, but again, if Hendry is insisting on trading Walker, there's only a couple guys out there who can replace him, Castillo was one. And if Walker is traded, and these other options are no longer available, that just makes it more likely that Neifi will see a lot of playing time next year.

 

It's December and Hendry has yet to do a thing to improve the biggest problem on the team, people should be allowed to be concerned.

 

I don't know if its restlessness or what but, at every turn, Hendry' letting the Cubs be upstaged by White Sox. First the WS now, the Sox trade for Thome and resign Konerko and what has Hendry done? Sign a couple of over priced middle relievers, Nefi the Great and made the infamous trade for a PTNL, way to go Jimbo.

 

 

I don't feel upstaged about the Thome signing. Frankly, he has things to prove coming off of an injury year. Plus, Thome certainly has a cloud of rumor and innuendo following him considering the new rules against performance enhancing drugs... I digress...

 

I think it's obvious Hendry is trying to work other deals. You really can't compare his task to the Sox because he has more holes to fill. Anyway, there will be plenty of time to judge the offseason; the Winter Meetings haven't even started yet. I expect action and if I don't get it I will blast him too.

 

That's more frustration than logic on my part, it appears as if all this activity is going on and he's missing opprotunties to really improve the Cubs.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't know if Jim pursued Castillo for second base but it seems reasonable to me that the Cubs have/had plans on allowing Cedeno the opportunity to start at 2B (didn't they switch him to 2B in winterball?)

 

 

From everything I've seen, Cedeno has not played at all at 2B this offseason.

 

 

I think it's obvious Hendry is trying to work other deals. You really can't compare his task to the Sox because he has more holes to fill.

 

It is different, but not to the point where you can excuse Hendry for failure because he has more work to do. The fact that there are more holes in the first place is very much his responsibility. He's not stepping into this situation, he created it.

[TheDude]

I'm not wholly convinced that "fire sale" is the right term for what is happening in South Florida. They are definately deconstructing the team, but fire sale usually carries with it conotations of less than appropriate return value.

 

If you put together a list of all the young talent that team has acquired, even if only 50% pan out at the big leagues, they are 2 years removed from the 2005 Indians.

[CubinNY]

The fact that there are more holes in the first place is very much his responsibility. He's not stepping into this situation, he created it.

 

Here is how it works:

 

1. One cannot blame Hendry for '04 or '05 becuase of injuries and bad luck.

 

2. One cannot judge Hendry's off-season until the offseason is over

 

3. Once Spring Training starts one cannot say he had a crappy off-season until after the 06 season

 

4. After the season, see point one and add in '06.

 

And so it goes.

[Andy]

Walker, Hairston, Cedeno, Neifi.

 

All of the above are capable of playing second base every day, and all of them are already on the team. I don't understand people's surprise that Hendry didn't get Castillo.

I don't know about "capable".

[YearofDaCubs]

Walker, Hairston, Cedeno, Neifi.

 

All of the above are capable of playing second base every day, and all of them are already on the team. I don't understand people's surprise that Hendry didn't get Castillo.

I don't know about "capable".

I would seriously not watch this team if Neifi is our starting 2B. It's bad enough he is still here.

[TheDude]

The fact that there are more holes in the first place is very much his responsibility. He's not stepping into this situation, he created it.

 

Here is how it works:

 

1. One cannot blame Hendry for '04 or '05 becuase of injuries and bad luck.

 

2. One cannot judge Hendry's off-season until the offseason is over

 

3. Once Spring Training starts one cannot say he had a crappy off-season until after the 06 season

 

4. After the season, see point one and add in '06.

 

And so it goes.

 

Here is also how it works:

 

1. Fans can somehow completely disregard player choice/feelings when evaluating the GM's ability. It's Hendry's fault for not pursuing and signing Giles or Matsui, etc.

 

2. Fans can ignore attempts to fill a hole if the hole doesn't work out. It's Hendry's fault for not fixing the bullpen the past several years despite signing/acquiring several marquee relievers in his tenure that didn't pan out.

 

3. Fans can asume Hendry sits on his hands instead of making offers regarding their preferred guy. It's Hendry's fault team X accepted the offer from team Y instead of the Cubs offer.

 

It goes both ways.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Walker, Hairston, Cedeno, Neifi.

 

All of the above are capable of playing second base every day, and all of them are already on the team. I don't understand people's surprise that Hendry didn't get Castillo.

I don't know about "capable".

I would seriously not watch this team if Neifi is our starting 2B. It's bad enough he is still here.

 

Didn't he save the Cubs last year?

 

edit - thats a joke.

[goonys evil twin]

2. Fans can ignore attempts to fill a hole if the hole doesn't work out. It's Hendry's fault for not fixing the bullpen the past several years despite signing/acquiring several marquee relievers in his tenure that didn't pan out.

 

 

That's the GM's job. He not only has to get a guy to fill a spot, he has to get the right guy to fill a spot. Things don't just accidentally fail to work out.

[Blueheart05]

I don't know if Jim pursued Castillo for second base but it seems reasonable to me that the Cubs have/had plans on allowing Cedeno the opportunity to start at 2B (didn't they switch him to 2B in winterball?)

 

 

From everything I've seen, Cedeno has not played at all at 2B this offseason.

 

 

I think it's obvious Hendry is trying to work other deals. You really can't compare his task to the Sox because he has more holes to fill.

 

It is different, but not to the point where you can excuse Hendry for failure because he has more work to do. The fact that there are more holes in the first place is very much his responsibility. He's not stepping into this situation, he created it.

 

First off, I thought I read that Cedeno was moved to 2B this off season. I will look for something to back that up and post it.

 

Secondly, my point about the holes is not that he's excused it's that it's much easier to make a splash (i.e. Thome) when you're dealing from a position of strength. For instance, I firmly believe that, for the first time, Hendry is negotiating a deal where he doesn't have the upper hand. Furcal's price has risen because the team's involved are all desperate for a SS/leadoff man.

 

Also, he didn't create all the holes but I do agree that it's his responsibility to address them. All things being equal, the Cubs should only be seeking a RF. Who would have predicted Patterson's fall and Nomar's subpar first half (especially when he looked so strong in ST) and his eventual injury? Not to mention the failure in the bullpen last year by guys who flat out didn't get the job done or who were injured.

 

No one gets a pass but let's not act like he's sitting on his hands either.

[YearofDaCubs]

Walker, Hairston, Cedeno, Neifi.

 

All of the above are capable of playing second base every day, and all of them are already on the team. I don't understand people's surprise that Hendry didn't get Castillo.

I don't know about "capable".

I would seriously not watch this team if Neifi is our starting 2B. It's bad enough he is still here.

 

Didn't he save the Cubs last year?

 

edit - thats a joke.

I always knew Baker was a Cards fan! :lol: