2005-06 College Basketball Thread

[rawaction]

BTW, I was joking about OSU winning the conference. I think MSU is the best team, as I've said all year. MSU, Illinois, then IU. IU has more talent and a better team than U of I (YEAH, I SAID IT), but U of I is much more better coached. I think OSU will finish a close 4th though, and ahead of Iowa.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Malik Hairston is a legitimate NBA lottery prospect whether he wants to come out after his sophomore or junior season and the Illini held him to a mere 12 points in Portland.

 

I cannot fathom why Rich is still starting over Jamar Smith, btw. I wasn't impressed with Jamar early, but he's come on real strong ever since I doubted him.

 

Hairston's only averaging 15 a game.

 

He's still a legitimate NBA prospect and I wouldn't be shocked to see him averaging 18-20 by season's end. He's an incredible talent.

 

He hasn't impressed me that much. Of course, I'm VERY biased.

[Mark_R]

Malik Hairston is a legitimate NBA lottery prospect whether he wants to come out after his sophomore or junior season and the Illini held him to a mere 12 points in Portland.

 

I cannot fathom why Rich is still starting over Jamar Smith, btw. I wasn't impressed with Jamar early, but he's come on real strong ever since I doubted him.

 

Hairston's only averaging 15 a game.

 

He's still a legitimate NBA prospect and I wouldn't be shocked to see him averaging 18-20 by season's end. He's an incredible talent.

 

He hasn't impressed me that much. Of course, I'm VERY biased.

 

The kid is shooting 55 percent from the floor as a 2 guard. That is very impressive by any standards. Averaged over 50 percent last year as well.

 

I'm shocked he isn't shooting more for that team. He will though, and he's good enough to get them into the tourney in a very weak Pac 10.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

I would just like to point out that Dee has been pretty off with his shot most of the year. He is still transitioning back to being a point guard after Deron took care of that most of last year. Give him a little more time and he will be back to his old self. Also, I would count Augustine in the really good player catagory.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Malik Hairston is a legitimate NBA lottery prospect whether he wants to come out after his sophomore or junior season and the Illini held him to a mere 12 points in Portland.

 

I cannot fathom why Rich is still starting over Jamar Smith, btw. I wasn't impressed with Jamar early, but he's come on real strong ever since I doubted him.

 

Hairston's only averaging 15 a game.

 

He's still a legitimate NBA prospect and I wouldn't be shocked to see him averaging 18-20 by season's end. He's an incredible talent.

 

He hasn't impressed me that much. Of course, I'm VERY biased.

 

The kid is shooting 55 percent from the floor as a 2 guard. That is very impressive by any standards. Averaged over 50 percent last year as well.

 

I'm shocked he isn't shooting more for that team. He will though, and he's good enough to get them into the tourney in a very weak Pac 10.

 

I only saw part of one game this season of his, he didn't impress me much against UCLA or Washington last year (yes, small sample size). He has all the attributes to be a lottery pick.

[XZero771679666304]

Eh?

 

They have some talented players no doubt. But with the way Brown's performed to date, they don't have anyone playing at the level that Davis or Killingsworth or Ager have.

 

last time i checked, dee was still the reigning B10 poy.

 

C'mon, you're smart enough to know awards like that don't mean anything, especially when they are playing the year after. Would Brown win that award right now for the year to date? Would he be in the top 5?

 

the big 10 season hasn't even started yet.

 

So is Brown going to up his play because it's the B10 season? I'm not going to claim a clear memory of last season, but Brown was much better last year before the B10 season. The losses they sustained are real, and it's a very real possibility that because of the lack of Williams and Head around him he won't be able to produce at the same level. Obviously, like I said before, that doesn't doom the Illini at all, but it's worth pointing out that they may struggle with the best players in the conference.

 

 

Ager might play better against the Illini than he has in the past, but Davis won't. While the Illini are weaker on the perimeter, they are much stronger inside. The Illini defense is even better than it was last year, and to be honest I don't think MSU has seen anything like it yet this year. The rotation of Arnold, Pruitt and Carter can hamper any one big man, and it takes some of the pressure off of Augustine. And say what you will about Brown, you won't see any guard he is defending scoring 25 or 30 points. Let's not forget that Illinois has had the better of MSU for a while now, even with MSU's "superior" talent. Goint into every year you hear about how much more talented MSU is, and every year Illinois handles them.

 

Ager is a senior, as is Davis. They've been around for four years with other talented players like Hill, Anderson and Trobert. In that time frame, the only true marquee players the Illini have had are Cook, Brown and Williams. Yet in those four years the Spartans have manged one win against Uof I, and by three points. Illinois has won 3 times, all blowouts.

 

Now Brown is a great player. Augustine is really good and Randle could explode at any time. But once again MSU as superior talent. But don't be surprised if they are just another one of Izzo's loaded teams to fall to the Illini.

 

I'm not saying the Illini will win, but I am sick to death of hearing about how MSU has more talent every freaking year.

 

 

And as for Dee Brown:

 

2004-2005 Junior: 2005 Consensus First-Team All-American ... Wooden Award All-America Team and finalist for the John R. Wooden Award, finishing third in voting for the prestigious Wooden Player of the Year Award ...National Player of the Year and First-Team All-American by The Sporting News ...USBWA First-Team All-American ...Sports Illustrated.com and CBS Sportsline.com First-Team All-American ... Associated Press Second-Team All-American ...NABC Second-Team All-American ...Basketball Times Second-Team All-American ...Just the sixth Consensus First-Team All-American in UI school history, and the first since Rod Fletcher in 1952 ... Big Ten Player of the Year and First-Team All-Big Ten selection by both league coaches and media ... Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year ... Oscar Robertson (USBWA) Player of the Year finalist

 

2003-2004 Sophomore: Second-Team All-Big Ten selection by coaches and media ...Honorable mention All-American by Associated Press ... Big Ten All-Tournament Team ...USBWA All-District 5 selection

 

2002-2003 Freshman: Second-Team All-Big Ten selection by the media and Third-Team All-Big Ten by league coaches ...Named to first-ever Big Ten All-Freshman Team ...Named All-Freshman Team by CollegeInsider.com

 

 

And now he is going to struggle against the best players? He never has, so why would he start now? Sure he lost Head and Deron, but now he has an inside game to work with, plus Randle. Don't hold your breath waiting for Dee's demise.

[Chocolate Milk]

Everyone is sleeping on Wisconsin in the Big Ten race. Bo Ryan's a good coach and they have only lost at home once since he's been there (In Big Ten play). I'm not saying they are going to win, but they have a pretty good shot to make some noise.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

And as for Dee Brown:

 

2004-2005 Junior: 2005 Consensus First-Team All-American ... Wooden Award All-America Team and finalist for the John R. Wooden Award, finishing third in voting for the prestigious Wooden Player of the Year Award ...National Player of the Year and First-Team All-American by The Sporting News ...USBWA First-Team All-American ...Sports Illustrated.com and CBS Sportsline.com First-Team All-American ... Associated Press Second-Team All-American ...NABC Second-Team All-American ...Basketball Times Second-Team All-American ...Just the sixth Consensus First-Team All-American in UI school history, and the first since Rod Fletcher in 1952 ... Big Ten Player of the Year and First-Team All-Big Ten selection by both league coaches and media ... Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year ... Oscar Robertson (USBWA) Player of the Year finalist

 

2003-2004 Sophomore: Second-Team All-Big Ten selection by coaches and media ...Honorable mention All-American by Associated Press ... Big Ten All-Tournament Team ...USBWA All-District 5 selection

 

2002-2003 Freshman: Second-Team All-Big Ten selection by the media and Third-Team All-Big Ten by league coaches ...Named to first-ever Big Ten All-Freshman Team ...Named All-Freshman Team by CollegeInsider.com

 

 

And now he is going to struggle against the best players? He never has, so why would he start now? Sure he lost Head and Deron, but now he has an inside game to work with, plus Randle. Don't hold your breath waiting for Dee's demise.

 

The TEAM, not Dee himself.

[illiniguy]

Dee is fine. He is rehabbing as he plays. He is so much better than Maurice Ager it isn't even funny, and I like Ager a lot. People just don't respect Dee Brown enough the things he does are often overlooked. He will not back down from any of these so called stars in the big ten. He is a lockdown defender that will really pressure Drew Neitzel and whomever the heck OSU and IU decides to have bringing the ball up. That being said I think that either Illinois or MSU wins the title. I lean towards MSu because this year we only get PSU and Prudue once.

 

 

Oh yeah and Jamar Smith has to come off of the bench to give us some scoring off of it and because McBride is a much better defender and can play the point. So I guess in short McBride is a better player, Smith is the better shooter.

[Magnetic Curses]

And as for Dee Brown:

 

2004-2005 Junior: 2005 Consensus First-Team All-American ... Wooden Award All-America Team and finalist for the John R. Wooden Award, finishing third in voting for the prestigious Wooden Player of the Year Award ...National Player of the Year and First-Team All-American by The Sporting News ...USBWA First-Team All-American ...Sports Illustrated.com and CBS Sportsline.com First-Team All-American ... Associated Press Second-Team All-American ...NABC Second-Team All-American ...Basketball Times Second-Team All-American ...Just the sixth Consensus First-Team All-American in UI school history, and the first since Rod Fletcher in 1952 ... Big Ten Player of the Year and First-Team All-Big Ten selection by both league coaches and media ... Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year ... Oscar Robertson (USBWA) Player of the Year finalist

 

2003-2004 Sophomore: Second-Team All-Big Ten selection by coaches and media ...Honorable mention All-American by Associated Press ... Big Ten All-Tournament Team ...USBWA All-District 5 selection

 

2002-2003 Freshman: Second-Team All-Big Ten selection by the media and Third-Team All-Big Ten by league coaches ...Named to first-ever Big Ten All-Freshman Team ...Named All-Freshman Team by CollegeInsider.com

 

 

And now he is going to struggle against the best players? He never has, so why would he start now? Sure he lost Head and Deron, but now he has an inside game to work with, plus Randle. Don't hold your breath waiting for Dee's demise.

 

The TEAM, not Dee himself.

 

is illinois THAT unlikelable of a team that everyone has to hope against hope for their downfall?

 

they are the kings until supplanted, and i really don't think that MSU has the ability to beat them.

 

indiana, granted, will offer more of a challenge with white and killingsworth down low, but it remains to be seen.

[Flames24Rulz]

And as for Dee Brown:

 

2004-2005 Junior: 2005 Consensus First-Team All-American ... Wooden Award All-America Team and finalist for the John R. Wooden Award, finishing third in voting for the prestigious Wooden Player of the Year Award ...National Player of the Year and First-Team All-American by The Sporting News ...USBWA First-Team All-American ...Sports Illustrated.com and CBS Sportsline.com First-Team All-American ... Associated Press Second-Team All-American ...NABC Second-Team All-American ...Basketball Times Second-Team All-American ...Just the sixth Consensus First-Team All-American in UI school history, and the first since Rod Fletcher in 1952 ... Big Ten Player of the Year and First-Team All-Big Ten selection by both league coaches and media ... Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year ... Oscar Robertson (USBWA) Player of the Year finalist

 

2003-2004 Sophomore: Second-Team All-Big Ten selection by coaches and media ...Honorable mention All-American by Associated Press ... Big Ten All-Tournament Team ...USBWA All-District 5 selection

 

2002-2003 Freshman: Second-Team All-Big Ten selection by the media and Third-Team All-Big Ten by league coaches ...Named to first-ever Big Ten All-Freshman Team ...Named All-Freshman Team by CollegeInsider.com

 

 

And now he is going to struggle against the best players? He never has, so why would he start now? Sure he lost Head and Deron, but now he has an inside game to work with, plus Randle. Don't hold your breath waiting for Dee's demise.

 

The TEAM, not Dee himself.

 

is illinois THAT unlikelable of a team that everyone has to hope against hope for their downfall?

 

they are the kings until supplanted, and i really don't think that MSU has the ability to beat them.

 

i'm biased, but still...i find it very hard to believe MSU is going to come into Champaign and beat the Illini at home.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

And as for Dee Brown:

 

2004-2005 Junior: 2005 Consensus First-Team All-American ... Wooden Award All-America Team and finalist for the John R. Wooden Award, finishing third in voting for the prestigious Wooden Player of the Year Award ...National Player of the Year and First-Team All-American by The Sporting News ...USBWA First-Team All-American ...Sports Illustrated.com and CBS Sportsline.com First-Team All-American ... Associated Press Second-Team All-American ...NABC Second-Team All-American ...Basketball Times Second-Team All-American ...Just the sixth Consensus First-Team All-American in UI school history, and the first since Rod Fletcher in 1952 ... Big Ten Player of the Year and First-Team All-Big Ten selection by both league coaches and media ... Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year ... Oscar Robertson (USBWA) Player of the Year finalist

 

2003-2004 Sophomore: Second-Team All-Big Ten selection by coaches and media ...Honorable mention All-American by Associated Press ... Big Ten All-Tournament Team ...USBWA All-District 5 selection

 

2002-2003 Freshman: Second-Team All-Big Ten selection by the media and Third-Team All-Big Ten by league coaches ...Named to first-ever Big Ten All-Freshman Team ...Named All-Freshman Team by CollegeInsider.com

 

 

And now he is going to struggle against the best players? He never has, so why would he start now? Sure he lost Head and Deron, but now he has an inside game to work with, plus Randle. Don't hold your breath waiting for Dee's demise.

 

The TEAM, not Dee himself.

 

is illinois THAT unlikelable of a team that everyone has to hope against hope for their downfall?

 

they are the kings until supplanted, and i really don't think that MSU has the ability to beat them.

 

indiana, granted, will offer more of a challenge with white and killingsworth down low, but it remains to be seen.

 

I'm a Michigan State fan, am I not supposed to hope that they win? No one has responded to the point that they haven't played anyone on Ager or Davis or Killingsworth's level, and we don't know how they will fare against the best players without their losses from last year. IU has played Duke(Redick and Williams) and to a lesser extent Kentucky(Sparks and co.). MSU has played BC(Smith and Dudley), Gonzaga(Morrison and friends), and to a lesser extent Arizona(Adams and co.). All I'm trying to say is that Illinois is untested yet in that fashion. I've said multiple times that they may not have a problem with it, and may or probably will win the conference. The other point is that Brown hasn't performed to last year's level to date, and he may not return to last year's level because of the talent lost. It's a valid concern, just like MSU's defense thus far. I've been able to talk about MSU's lack of defense previously without getting super defensive, why can't it go both ways?

[SouthSideRyan]

Everyone is sleeping on Wisconsin in the Big Ten race. Bo Ryan's a good coach and they have only lost at home once since he's been there (In Big Ten play). I'm not saying they are going to win, but they have a pretty good shot to make some noise.

 

I'm certainly not sleeping on Wisconsin. I love Bo Ryan, and the way they play ball. I think the talent gap is too much though and can't see them finishing ahead of MSU or Illinois. I don't want to see them in the Big 10 tourney, and if I was a fan of another conference, I'd certainly dread seeing them in my regional come tourney time.

[Magnetic Curses]

And as for Dee Brown:

 

2004-2005 Junior: 2005 Consensus First-Team All-American ... Wooden Award All-America Team and finalist for the John R. Wooden Award, finishing third in voting for the prestigious Wooden Player of the Year Award ...National Player of the Year and First-Team All-American by The Sporting News ...USBWA First-Team All-American ...Sports Illustrated.com and CBS Sportsline.com First-Team All-American ... Associated Press Second-Team All-American ...NABC Second-Team All-American ...Basketball Times Second-Team All-American ...Just the sixth Consensus First-Team All-American in UI school history, and the first since Rod Fletcher in 1952 ... Big Ten Player of the Year and First-Team All-Big Ten selection by both league coaches and media ... Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year ... Oscar Robertson (USBWA) Player of the Year finalist

 

2003-2004 Sophomore: Second-Team All-Big Ten selection by coaches and media ...Honorable mention All-American by Associated Press ... Big Ten All-Tournament Team ...USBWA All-District 5 selection

 

2002-2003 Freshman: Second-Team All-Big Ten selection by the media and Third-Team All-Big Ten by league coaches ...Named to first-ever Big Ten All-Freshman Team ...Named All-Freshman Team by CollegeInsider.com

 

 

And now he is going to struggle against the best players? He never has, so why would he start now? Sure he lost Head and Deron, but now he has an inside game to work with, plus Randle. Don't hold your breath waiting for Dee's demise.

 

The TEAM, not Dee himself.

 

is illinois THAT unlikelable of a team that everyone has to hope against hope for their downfall?

 

they are the kings until supplanted, and i really don't think that MSU has the ability to beat them.

 

indiana, granted, will offer more of a challenge with white and killingsworth down low, but it remains to be seen.

 

I'm a Michigan State fan, am I not supposed to hope that they win? No one has responded to the point that they haven't played anyone on Ager or Davis or Killingsworth's level, and we don't know how they will fare against the best players without their losses from last year. IU has played Duke(Redick and Williams) and to a lesser extent Kentucky(Sparks and co.). MSU has played BC(Smith and Dudley), Gonzaga(Morrison and friends), and to a lesser extent Arizona(Adams and co.). All I'm trying to say is that Illinois is untested yet in that fashion. I've said multiple times that they may not have a problem with it, and may or probably will win the conference. The other point is that Brown hasn't performed to last year's level to date, and he may not return to last year's level because of the talent lost. It's a valid concern, just like MSU's defense thus far. I've been able to talk about MSU's lack of defense previously without getting super defensive, why can't it go both ways?

 

are you forgetting that they beat UNC fairly easily in chapel hill?

[Chocolate Milk]

Everyone is sleeping on Wisconsin in the Big Ten race. Bo Ryan's a good coach and they have only lost at home once since he's been there (In Big Ten play). I'm not saying they are going to win, but they have a pretty good shot to make some noise.

 

I'm certainly not sleeping on Wisconsin. I love Bo Ryan, and the way they play ball. I think the talent gap is too much though and can't see them finishing ahead of MSU or Illinois. I don't want to see them in the Big 10 tourney, and if I was a fan of another conference, I'd certainly dread seeing them in my regional come tourney time.

 

Granted, I'm a homer, but I don't that the talent gap is as big as people assume. Tucker is extremely talented and Butch was a McD's All-American. Kamron Taylor (AKA Chris Rock) is emerging.

 

Even if I'm incorrect about the talent gap, Wisconsin hasn't had too much trouble competing with Illinois and MSU since Ryan has been there.

 

I think the Big Ten is going to be a bloodbath this year. I think it's going to be a close race between a bunch of teams. Best of luck to everyone. Hopefully their isn't any injuries.

[rawaction]

I like how everyone talks about IU's inside game, but nobody talks about the outside. Granted, they've only had Killer so far in the middle, but IU is the best shooting team in the country. 54% from the field, and if you think it's due to Marco getting easy baskets on the interior......the team is also leading America in 3pt percentage. And if that wasn't enough, they are 1 assist behind Washington for the best passing team in the country. And now they have started to rebound, play defense, and not turn the ball over.

[Magnetic Curses]

Everyone is sleeping on Wisconsin in the Big Ten race. Bo Ryan's a good coach and they have only lost at home once since he's been there (In Big Ten play). I'm not saying they are going to win, but they have a pretty good shot to make some noise.

 

I'm certainly not sleeping on Wisconsin. I love Bo Ryan, and the way they play ball. I think the talent gap is too much though and can't see them finishing ahead of MSU or Illinois. I don't want to see them in the Big 10 tourney, and if I was a fan of another conference, I'd certainly dread seeing them in my regional come tourney time.

 

Granted, I'm a homer, but I don't that the talent gap is as big as people assume. Tucker is extremely talented and Butch was a McD's All-American. Kamron Taylor (AKA Chris Rock) is emerging.

 

Even if I'm incorrect about the talent gap, Wisconsin hasn't had too much trouble competing with Illinois and MSU since Ryan has been there.

 

I think the Big Ten is going to be a bloodbath this year. I think it's going to be a close race between a bunch of teams. Best of luck to everyone. Hopefully their isn't any injuries.

 

correction: wisconsin didn't have much trouble competing with illinois while DEVIN HARRIS was there.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

And as for Dee Brown:

 

2004-2005 Junior: 2005 Consensus First-Team All-American ... Wooden Award All-America Team and finalist for the John R. Wooden Award, finishing third in voting for the prestigious Wooden Player of the Year Award ...National Player of the Year and First-Team All-American by The Sporting News ...USBWA First-Team All-American ...Sports Illustrated.com and CBS Sportsline.com First-Team All-American ... Associated Press Second-Team All-American ...NABC Second-Team All-American ...Basketball Times Second-Team All-American ...Just the sixth Consensus First-Team All-American in UI school history, and the first since Rod Fletcher in 1952 ... Big Ten Player of the Year and First-Team All-Big Ten selection by both league coaches and media ... Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year ... Oscar Robertson (USBWA) Player of the Year finalist

 

2003-2004 Sophomore: Second-Team All-Big Ten selection by coaches and media ...Honorable mention All-American by Associated Press ... Big Ten All-Tournament Team ...USBWA All-District 5 selection

 

2002-2003 Freshman: Second-Team All-Big Ten selection by the media and Third-Team All-Big Ten by league coaches ...Named to first-ever Big Ten All-Freshman Team ...Named All-Freshman Team by CollegeInsider.com

 

 

And now he is going to struggle against the best players? He never has, so why would he start now? Sure he lost Head and Deron, but now he has an inside game to work with, plus Randle. Don't hold your breath waiting for Dee's demise.

 

The TEAM, not Dee himself.

 

is illinois THAT unlikelable of a team that everyone has to hope against hope for their downfall?

 

they are the kings until supplanted, and i really don't think that MSU has the ability to beat them.

 

indiana, granted, will offer more of a challenge with white and killingsworth down low, but it remains to be seen.

 

I'm a Michigan State fan, am I not supposed to hope that they win? No one has responded to the point that they haven't played anyone on Ager or Davis or Killingsworth's level, and we don't know how they will fare against the best players without their losses from last year. IU has played Duke(Redick and Williams) and to a lesser extent Kentucky(Sparks and co.). MSU has played BC(Smith and Dudley), Gonzaga(Morrison and friends), and to a lesser extent Arizona(Adams and co.). All I'm trying to say is that Illinois is untested yet in that fashion. I've said multiple times that they may not have a problem with it, and may or probably will win the conference. The other point is that Brown hasn't performed to last year's level to date, and he may not return to last year's level because of the talent lost. It's a valid concern, just like MSU's defense thus far. I've been able to talk about MSU's lack of defense previously without getting super defensive, why can't it go both ways?

 

are you forgetting that they beat UNC fairly easily in chapel hill?

 

Fairly easily? I can't get the flowchart thing to come up, but they were tied at halftime and won by 4. That's irrelevant anyways, because Noel or Hansbrough aren't on the same plane as all the players mentioned in the previous post. That's the point. Good teams with star players, not just a borderline top 25 team.

[Magnetic Curses]

I like how everyone talks about IU's inside game, but nobody talks about the outside. Granted, they've only had Killer so far in the middle, but IU is the best shooting team in the country. 54% from the field, and if you think it's due to Marco getting easy baskets on the interior......the team is also leading America in 3pt percentage. And if that wasn't enough, they are 1 assist behind Washington for the best passing team in the country. And now they have started to rebound, play defense, and not turn the ball over.

 

illinois is great at defending the perimeter.

 

IU's percentages will come down, it's just common logic. davis's huck-it-and-chuck-it offense will shine through.

 

i remember when the red-headed stepchild was there, that guy could make one shot during a game and then automatically think he could sink a 50 footer.

 

he was bad.

[Magnetic Curses]

And as for Dee Brown:

 

2004-2005 Junior: 2005 Consensus First-Team All-American ... Wooden Award All-America Team and finalist for the John R. Wooden Award, finishing third in voting for the prestigious Wooden Player of the Year Award ...National Player of the Year and First-Team All-American by The Sporting News ...USBWA First-Team All-American ...Sports Illustrated.com and CBS Sportsline.com First-Team All-American ... Associated Press Second-Team All-American ...NABC Second-Team All-American ...Basketball Times Second-Team All-American ...Just the sixth Consensus First-Team All-American in UI school history, and the first since Rod Fletcher in 1952 ... Big Ten Player of the Year and First-Team All-Big Ten selection by both league coaches and media ... Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year ... Oscar Robertson (USBWA) Player of the Year finalist

 

2003-2004 Sophomore: Second-Team All-Big Ten selection by coaches and media ...Honorable mention All-American by Associated Press ... Big Ten All-Tournament Team ...USBWA All-District 5 selection

 

2002-2003 Freshman: Second-Team All-Big Ten selection by the media and Third-Team All-Big Ten by league coaches ...Named to first-ever Big Ten All-Freshman Team ...Named All-Freshman Team by CollegeInsider.com

 

 

And now he is going to struggle against the best players? He never has, so why would he start now? Sure he lost Head and Deron, but now he has an inside game to work with, plus Randle. Don't hold your breath waiting for Dee's demise.

 

The TEAM, not Dee himself.

 

is illinois THAT unlikelable of a team that everyone has to hope against hope for their downfall?

 

they are the kings until supplanted, and i really don't think that MSU has the ability to beat them.

 

indiana, granted, will offer more of a challenge with white and killingsworth down low, but it remains to be seen.

 

I'm a Michigan State fan, am I not supposed to hope that they win? No one has responded to the point that they haven't played anyone on Ager or Davis or Killingsworth's level, and we don't know how they will fare against the best players without their losses from last year. IU has played Duke(Redick and Williams) and to a lesser extent Kentucky(Sparks and co.). MSU has played BC(Smith and Dudley), Gonzaga(Morrison and friends), and to a lesser extent Arizona(Adams and co.). All I'm trying to say is that Illinois is untested yet in that fashion. I've said multiple times that they may not have a problem with it, and may or probably will win the conference. The other point is that Brown hasn't performed to last year's level to date, and he may not return to last year's level because of the talent lost. It's a valid concern, just like MSU's defense thus far. I've been able to talk about MSU's lack of defense previously without getting super defensive, why can't it go both ways?

 

are you forgetting that they beat UNC fairly easily in chapel hill?

 

Fairly easily? I can't get the flowchart thing to come up, but they were tied at halftime and won by 4. That's irrelevant anyways, because Noel or Hansbrough aren't on the same plane as all the players mentioned in the previous post. That's the point. Good teams with star players, not just a borderline top 25 team.

 

the game was really never in doubt, at least to me anyways.

 

did you simply forget that you mentioned kentucky when lauding the blue-bloods' schedule, or are you doing it on purpose? in case you fogot, i'll remind you: kentucky got beat at rupp by UNC. why do you want anyone but illinois to have a good team? illinois is very respectable champion and the rest of the Big Ten should feel proud to be represented by such a classy program.

 

"anyone but illinois! anyone but illinois!"

 

and hansbrough and noel definitely are very superior college players.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

And as for Dee Brown:

 

2004-2005 Junior: 2005 Consensus First-Team All-American ... Wooden Award All-America Team and finalist for the John R. Wooden Award, finishing third in voting for the prestigious Wooden Player of the Year Award ...National Player of the Year and First-Team All-American by The Sporting News ...USBWA First-Team All-American ...Sports Illustrated.com and CBS Sportsline.com First-Team All-American ... Associated Press Second-Team All-American ...NABC Second-Team All-American ...Basketball Times Second-Team All-American ...Just the sixth Consensus First-Team All-American in UI school history, and the first since Rod Fletcher in 1952 ... Big Ten Player of the Year and First-Team All-Big Ten selection by both league coaches and media ... Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year ... Oscar Robertson (USBWA) Player of the Year finalist

 

2003-2004 Sophomore: Second-Team All-Big Ten selection by coaches and media ...Honorable mention All-American by Associated Press ... Big Ten All-Tournament Team ...USBWA All-District 5 selection

 

2002-2003 Freshman: Second-Team All-Big Ten selection by the media and Third-Team All-Big Ten by league coaches ...Named to first-ever Big Ten All-Freshman Team ...Named All-Freshman Team by CollegeInsider.com

 

 

And now he is going to struggle against the best players? He never has, so why would he start now? Sure he lost Head and Deron, but now he has an inside game to work with, plus Randle. Don't hold your breath waiting for Dee's demise.

 

The TEAM, not Dee himself.

 

is illinois THAT unlikelable of a team that everyone has to hope against hope for their downfall?

 

they are the kings until supplanted, and i really don't think that MSU has the ability to beat them.

 

indiana, granted, will offer more of a challenge with white and killingsworth down low, but it remains to be seen.

 

I'm a Michigan State fan, am I not supposed to hope that they win? No one has responded to the point that they haven't played anyone on Ager or Davis or Killingsworth's level, and we don't know how they will fare against the best players without their losses from last year. IU has played Duke(Redick and Williams) and to a lesser extent Kentucky(Sparks and co.). MSU has played BC(Smith and Dudley), Gonzaga(Morrison and friends), and to a lesser extent Arizona(Adams and co.). All I'm trying to say is that Illinois is untested yet in that fashion. I've said multiple times that they may not have a problem with it, and may or probably will win the conference. The other point is that Brown hasn't performed to last year's level to date, and he may not return to last year's level because of the talent lost. It's a valid concern, just like MSU's defense thus far. I've been able to talk about MSU's lack of defense previously without getting super defensive, why can't it go both ways?

 

are you forgetting that they beat UNC fairly easily in chapel hill?

 

Fairly easily? I can't get the flowchart thing to come up, but they were tied at halftime and won by 4. That's irrelevant anyways, because Noel or Hansbrough aren't on the same plane as all the players mentioned in the previous post. That's the point. Good teams with star players, not just a borderline top 25 team.

 

the game was really never in doubt, at least to me anyways.

 

did you simply forget that you mentioned kentucky when lauding the blue-bloods' schedule, or are you doing it on purpose? in case you fogot, i'll remind you: kentucky got beat at rupp by UNC. why do you want anyone but illinois to have a good team? illinois is very respectable champion and the rest of the Big Ten should feel proud to be represented by such a classy program.

 

"anyone but illinois! anyone but illinois!"

 

and hansbrough and noel definitely are very superior college players.

 

Are you even reading the posts anymore? How many times do I have to say that it doesn't mean that Illinois is bad, or that they won't win the Big 10? I just brought up a concern that they haven't faced any great players yet, and that Brown may not return to last year's levels? Is it possible to have a discussion or debate about it without acting like everyone's out to get Illinois? The point of including Kentucky(who I qualified with "to a lesser extent") was the star player, not the team. Had IU played UNC, I would've said the same thing about them. That's the point, the best that the Illini have played do not include any of the top of the line players. That's all, not "anyone but Illinois or any of that nonsense.

[Magnetic Curses]

Are you even reading the posts anymore? How many times do I have to say that it doesn't mean that Illinois is bad, or that they won't win the Big 10? I just brought up a concern that they haven't faced any great players yet, and that Brown may not return to last year's levels? Is it possible to have a discussion or debate about it without acting like everyone's out to get Illinois? The point of including Kentucky(who I qualified with "to a lesser extent") was the star player, not the team. Had IU played UNC, I would've said the same thing about them. That's the point, the best that the Illini have played do not include any of the top of the line players. That's all, not "anyone but Illinois or any of that nonsense.

 

i can't think of how sparks is any more of a star than hansbrough. he's older, i'll give him that, and has been around since forever but that doesn't mean he's better.

 

of course you'll have to give illinois credit, they've won back to back outright B10 titles. but i don't see anyone giving illinois any more respect than they have to to sound sane. if you don't give illinois any credit, no one will take you seriously at all.

 

admit at least that you'll be more disappointed if illinois wins than if any other B10 team besides MSU does. you'd rather IU win, just cop to it.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

i can't think of how sparks is any more of a star than hansbrough. he's older, i'll give him that, and has been around since forever but that doesn't mean he's better.

 

Which is why I put them on the same lower plane.

 

of course you'll have to give illinois credit, they've won back to back outright B10 titles. but i don't see anyone giving illinois any more respect than they have to to sound sane. if you don't give illinois any credit, no one will take you seriously at all.

 

If everytime someone brings up a valid criticism of Illinois you fly off the handle about how everyone hates Illinois, no one will take you seriously.

 

admit at least that you'll be more disappointed if illinois wins than if any other B10 team besides MSU does. you'd rather IU win, just cop to it.

 

Untrue. If I did, it wouldn't be because I have some deep seeded hatred for U of I. It'd be no different than wanting a new champion if Illinois, or OSU, or Penn St. had won the year before.

[rawaction]

I like how everyone talks about IU's inside game, but nobody talks about the outside. Granted, they've only had Killer so far in the middle, but IU is the best shooting team in the country. 54% from the field, and if you think it's due to Marco getting easy baskets on the interior......the team is also leading America in 3pt percentage. And if that wasn't enough, they are 1 assist behind Washington for the best passing team in the country. And now they have started to rebound, play defense, and not turn the ball over.

 

illinois is great at defending the perimeter.

 

IU's percentages will come down, it's just common logic. davis's huck-it-and-chuck-it offense will shine through.

 

Agreed. Illinois does have a better perimeter D than anyone IU has played, and maybe will play this year. But who said anything about Illinois? I was just responding to your post that IU would be tough with their 2 big men. And I went on because every publication says IU has a great interior tandem that can lead them far in the tourney, but that's not what's making them a good team. The Charlotte game was a blueprint of what to expect if teams want to double down on Killer or DJ. IU has Strickland, Vaden, Ratliff, Wilmont, Suhr, and Allen who can knock down shots.

 

I just think it's more of a pick your poison against IU, than "they are gonna be tough inside".

 

And to reiterate CP's point....why would either of us like Illinois? They are rivals, and is the team that dominated the world last year. For the record, I hate Iowa more.

[XZero771679666304]

And as for Dee Brown:

 

2004-2005 Junior: 2005 Consensus First-Team All-American ... Wooden Award All-America Team and finalist for the John R. Wooden Award, finishing third in voting for the prestigious Wooden Player of the Year Award ...National Player of the Year and First-Team All-American by The Sporting News ...USBWA First-Team All-American ...Sports Illustrated.com and CBS Sportsline.com First-Team All-American ... Associated Press Second-Team All-American ...NABC Second-Team All-American ...Basketball Times Second-Team All-American ...Just the sixth Consensus First-Team All-American in UI school history, and the first since Rod Fletcher in 1952 ... Big Ten Player of the Year and First-Team All-Big Ten selection by both league coaches and media ... Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year ... Oscar Robertson (USBWA) Player of the Year finalist

 

2003-2004 Sophomore: Second-Team All-Big Ten selection by coaches and media ...Honorable mention All-American by Associated Press ... Big Ten All-Tournament Team ...USBWA All-District 5 selection

 

2002-2003 Freshman: Second-Team All-Big Ten selection by the media and Third-Team All-Big Ten by league coaches ...Named to first-ever Big Ten All-Freshman Team ...Named All-Freshman Team by CollegeInsider.com

 

 

And now he is going to struggle against the best players? He never has, so why would he start now? Sure he lost Head and Deron, but now he has an inside game to work with, plus Randle. Don't hold your breath waiting for Dee's demise.

 

The TEAM, not Dee himself.

 

I addressed THE TEAM in the first half of my post. You say Illinois is untested, but other than Gonzaga, all the other teams that MSU has played have proven to be overrated. Arizona isn't even in the top 25 anymore. BC isn't in the top 10. Even the Zags are just squeaking by teams. One of your losses was a really bad one. Don't even say it was because of the cramps, because the Hawaii starter played as few minutes as the MSU starters. IU was beaten by the oly really goodteam they played (UK is mediocre until Morris comes back), and lost to Indiana State. UNC has proven to be better than Arizona and in my estimation, UK. The Illini brike their home wining streak while playing a piss poor game.

 

MSU hasn't played a team with the caliber of defense that Illinois is going to bring, nor have they defended nearly well enough to win a defensive dogfight. IMO, MSU is vulnerable to any team with a really good defense. IU is inconsistent. Iowa just isn't that good.

 

Illinois has traded an outside game for an inside game, and while weaker in some ways, in a lot of ways they are even stronger than last year. They won't live and die by the three, and can handle the post much better than they have been able to in years. Their offense hasn't gelled yet, but the shooting is still there with Dee, Jamar and McBride, Randle is as athletic as they come and will only get better as the season goes on. Augie is a bit better, and now he will be helped out by the rotation of Pruitt, Arnold and Carter, so he won't be as alone defensively in the post.

 

Last year, the Illini really only had one big guy, and few fouls to give in the post. Now the Illini are very big, and have a ton of fouls to give. Guys like Davis and Killingsworth will have a much harder time with this year's Illini than pevious years. Now the Illini have been vulnerable to a good zone, but their defense is good enough to hold teams down and keep them in every game.

 

As an Illini fan, I have heard every year how the Illini have been less talented than MSU, or how we are untested every time we get off to a hot start. It's getting kind of cliche. Every year it's "We'll se how good the Illini are when the play the good teams", and at the end of the year, we are always at or near the top of the conference.

 

I guess we'll just have to wait and see if history repeats itself.