Is Ichiro available???

[E.J.]

I don't know this guy's credibility, but I found this article:

 

http://www.insidebayarea.com/davedelgrande/ci_3168307

 

DATELINE: In front of Bonds. The baseball off-season has gotten off to a very quiet start in Seattle. Too quiet.

 

Rumor has it Ichiro has grown tired of the Mariners' losing ways and wants out, but Seattle-area reporters aren't publicizing it because they like dealing with the Japanese hitting star on a daily basis. They're hoping the All-Star changes his mind before his request for a trade becomes a demand.

 

Believe it: The Mariners are accepting offers right now for the standout leadoff hitter, and the price is only going to go up if/when Ichiro's true feelings about wanting out become public, prompting more teams to get Bill Bavasi on the phone.

[Andy]

Even if Ichiro is available, I doubt that we'd be getting equal value if we traded for him. Seattle would want a lot.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I hope that is more than just a rumor.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Pie + Hill for Ichiro. Fair trade for both teams; they save a ton of money and get our two best/closest prospects. We solve RF and leadoff in one fell swoop. Love it. I'll throw in a reliever if need be too, like Novoa or JVB or Wellemeyer.

 

Trade for Bradley or Pierre for CF, keep Walker in this scenario for his high SLG at 2B, and now we have a lineup. My take would be:

 

1. Ichiro, 2. Bradley, 3. Lee, 4. Ramirez, 5. Walker, 6. Murton, 7. Barrett, 8. Cedeno.

 

What's wrong with that lineup? I like it.

[abuck1220]

how does the price go up if his trade demands go public? :-k

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Pie + Hill for Ichiro. Fair trade for both teams; they save a ton of money and get our two best/closest prospects. We solve RF and leadoff in one fell swoop. Love it. I'll throw in a reliever if need be too, like Novoa or JVB or Wellemeyer.

 

Trade for Bradley or Pierre for CF, keep Walker in this scenario for his high SLG at 2B, and now we have a lineup. My take would be:

 

1. Ichiro, 2. Bradley, 3. Lee, 4. Ramirez, 5. Walker, 6. Murton, 7. Barrett, 8. Cedeno.

 

What's wrong with that lineup? I like it.

 

I think it will take a whole lot more than that. I'd think more along the lines of J. Williams, Pie, Hill, and likely one other prospect at least.

 

I'm not sure if I pay it or not, but if I could get Ichiro without giving up Pie, I'd strongly consider it.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

If we're going to give up a ton in return for a megastar corner OF, please get one with an OPS above .800.

[Laura]

I just want a team with an Ichiro and a Nomar. 8)

 

(and Aramis and Z!)

[1908]

They're hoping the All-Star changes his mind before his request for a trade becomes a demand.

Ichiro would never demand a trade.

[badger1679666666]

If we're going to give up a ton in return for a megastar corner OF, please get one with an OPS above .800.

 

SLG isn't everything, despite what this site preaches.

[scs_paradise]

If we're going to give up a ton in return for a megastar corner OF, please get one with an OPS above .800.

 

SLG isn't everything, despite what this site preaches.

 

exactly, Ichiro isn't here for his slg he would be here to get on base. With an avg OBP of .377 over his career and two years ago it being .414 I would take Ichiro and give up Pie in a heart beat, if we can do it without great, but even if we can't....get it done.

[scs_paradise]

If we're going to give up a ton in return for a megastar corner OF, please get one with an OPS above .800.

 

by the way his career OPS is .819....so I guess you are for the move?

[Diffusion]

If we're going to give up a ton in return for a megastar corner OF, please get one with an OPS above .800.

 

SLG isn't everything, despite what this site preaches.

 

This site disregards the importance of OBP? That's one of the more original criticisms levied against it.

 

Anyway, leaving aside the fact that I despise OPS, you're absolutely right that SLG isn't everything, but then again neither is OBP everything either.

 

As a result, Ichiro just is not as good as might be supposed from his reputation and thus his salary. Certainly he's a very good player, and the best leadoff hitter in the game. But his lack of power does prevents him from rightfully being classed a great player.

 

Furthermore, Ichiro's now 32 years old, and his skill set of average and speed isn't particularly well suited to ageing. If they slip, Ichiro won't have much left to his game. If he only hits .280, his on-base/slugging aren't likely to be much higher .330/.400. That's problematic.

 

But don't get me wrong, Ichiro's worth every cent that he makes simply because of the Japan factor, and I'll take him as the Cubs CF every day! And I mean everyday, Ichiro has missed just 14 games in 5 years in the majors! And then put Brian Giles in right...

 

CF Ichiro Suzuki, RF Brian Giles, 1B Derrek Lee, 3B Aramis Ramirez, SS Nomar Garciaparra, 2B Todd Walker, C Michael Barrett, LF Matt Murton !!

 

All the same, you have to be aware that Ichiro alone wouldn't represent the necessary offensive improvement that the Cubs have to be seeking this winter. And that's why Brian Giles would be necessary too.

 

One other thing I want to get off my chest: the absolutely irrationality of the concept of not doing anything particularly too drastic about the centre field position for the sake of "keeping it open for Felix Pie". Felix Pie is still nothing but a prospect, albeit a very good one at that. Prospect failure rates being what they are, sometimes because of a lack of talent, or a lack of talent compatible with the majors, sometimes because of a lack of effort or dedication, sometimes because of injury, it makes little sense to pencil Pie in at this stage as the Opening Day 2007 centre fielder.

 

It makes a lot more sense to work on the assumption that Pie will not make it, or better yet that Pie doesn't exist. Then the worst that can happen is that the continguency plan proves unnecessary, and you have an embarrassment of riches and an in-demand trading chip, in an AJ Pierzynski/Joe Mauer/Joe Nathan/Francisco Liriano/Boof Bonser kind of way, assuming of course that you were sensible as always when it came to the contracts. On the other hand, if you work on the assumption that Pie will make it, it's possible that you can end up with absolutely no-one, and thus put yourself into a weak and disadvantaged negotiating position when it comes to filling the vacancy. The Cubs have continuously done this over the years: they've purposely held spots open for people that have never come. Especially after this last season, Hendry must learn that a continguency plan too many is better than none at all.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

If we're going to give up a ton in return for a megastar corner OF, please get one with an OPS above .800.

 

SLG isn't everything, despite what this site preaches.

 

If anything, this site underappreciates SLG as a whole IMO. Of course SLG isn't everything, but it's important, and needs to be considered.

 

I guess you could make the case that Ichiro's marketability in Japan can mitigate his contract size, but that's still something to be concerned about.

 

My point is that if we are going to give up top prospects and best young players for a stud OF, lets get one that's the complete package? Ichiro's EqA and WARP were no better than Todd Walker last year, and he's 32 with a huge contract. For all the talk of his OBP, it was only .350 last year, he doesn't walk alot, which means as he ages his AVG and moreso OBP will be dragged down as he ages.

 

I'll certainly take Ichiro for my team, he's talented in all aspects. But if we're selling the farm for a stud, let's get the most productive player possible, not one who was a Todd Walker clone last year.

[BigbadB]

If we're going to give up a ton in return for a megastar corner OF, please get one with an OPS above .800.

 

SLG isn't everything, despite what this site preaches.

 

This site disregards the importance of OBP? That's one of the more original criticisms levied against it.

 

Anyway, leaving aside the fact that I despise OPS, you're absolutely right that SLG isn't everything, but then again neither is OBP everything either.

 

As a result, Ichiro just is not as good as might be supposed from his reputation and thus his salary. Certainly he's a very good player, and the best leadoff hitter in the game. But his lack of power does prevents him from rightfully being classed a great player.

 

Furthermore, Ichiro's now 32 years old, and his skill set of average and speed isn't particularly well suited to ageing. If they slip, Ichiro won't have much left to his game. If he only hits .280, his on-base/slugging aren't likely to be much higher .330/.400. That's problematic.

 

But don't get me wrong, Ichiro's worth every cent that he makes simply because of the Japan factor, and I'll take him as the Cubs CF every day! And I mean everyday, Ichiro has missed just 14 games in 5 years in the majors! And then put Brian Giles in right...

 

CF Ichiro Suzuki, RF Brian Giles, 1B Derrek Lee, 3B Aramis Ramirez, SS Nomar Garciaparra, 2B Todd Walker, C Michael Barrett, LF Matt Murton !!

 

All the same, you have to be aware that Ichiro alone wouldn't represent the necessary offensive improvement that the Cubs have to be seeking this winter. And that's why Brian Giles would be necessary too.

 

One other thing I want to get off my chest: the absolutely irrationality of the concept of not doing anything particularly too drastic about the centre field position for the sake of "keeping it open for Felix Pie". Felix Pie is still nothing but a prospect, albeit a very good one at that. Prospect failure rates being what they are, sometimes because of a lack of talent, or a lack of talent compatible with the majors, sometimes because of a lack of effort or dedication, sometimes because of injury, it makes little sense to pencil Pie in at this stage as the Opening Day 2007 centre fielder.

 

It makes a lot more sense to work on the assumption that Pie will not make it, or better yet that Pie doesn't exist. Then the worst that can happen is that the continguency plan proves unnecessary, and you have an embarrassment of riches and an in-demand trading chip, in an AJ Pierzynski/Joe Mauer/Joe Nathan/Francisco Liriano/Boof Bonser kind of way, assuming of course that you were sensible as always when it came to the contracts. On the other hand, if you work on the assumption that Pie will make it, it's possible that you can end up with absolutely no-one, and thus put yourself into a weak and disadvantaged negotiating position when it comes to filling the vacancy. The Cubs have continuously done this over the years: they've purposely held spots open for people that have never come. Especially after this last season, Hendry must learn that a continguency plan too many is better than none at all.

 

I agree with the top part, but disagree on the concept of not "holding" a spot for a rookie. What exactly is Phily going to do. They have one of the best prospects in the game sitting in AAA because the guy ahead of him is now old, oft injured and making a crap load of money for the next several years. Phily must be kicking themselves.

 

I'm all for not just handing any rookie a spot to sink or swim. I definitely think that's the wrong approach on Cedeno. I'd rather see Cedeno earn it. Who blocks Pie now that either couldn't be traded or benched if Pie keeps improving like he has? My idea of going after Lofton gives us a bunch of guys who could keep centerfield productive in '06. Signing Damon to a long term deal to play center would be pulling a Philadelphia move, which could really come back and bite you.

[frostwyrm]

I'm all for not just handing any rookie a spot to sink or swim. I definitely think that's the wrong approach on Cedeno. I'd rather see Cedeno earn it.

 

I don't think Hendry can afford to think that way as long as Dusty is here. As the Cubs GM you do pretty much have to hand the rookie a spot, otherwise it will go to some Hollandsworth type.

[RynoRules]

Pie + Hill for Ichiro. Fair trade for both teams; they save a ton of money and get our two best/closest prospects. We solve RF and leadoff in one fell swoop. Love it. I'll throw in a reliever if need be too, like Novoa or JVB or Wellemeyer.

 

Trade for Bradley or Pierre for CF, keep Walker in this scenario for his high SLG at 2B, and now we have a lineup. My take would be:

 

1. Ichiro, 2. Bradley, 3. Lee, 4. Ramirez, 5. Walker, 6. Murton, 7. Barrett, 8. Cedeno.

 

What's wrong with that lineup? I like it.

 

I think it will take a whole lot more than that. I'd think more along the lines of J. Williams, Pie, Hill, and likely one other prospect at least.

 

I'm not sure if I pay it or not, but if I could get Ichiro without giving up Pie, I'd strongly consider it.

 

I like Pie, but not so much that I wouldn't give him up to get one of baseball's best hitters. Can you imagine an offseason that nets Ichiro via trade and Giles via FA?

 

On second thought: :pig:

[CuseCubFan69]

If the Cubs get Irchiro then they need to sign Nomar or find a CF/SS with a lot of pop. I'd go after ARod big time if I aquired Ichiro.

[Diffusion]

One other thing I want to get off my chest: the absolutely irrationality of the concept of not doing anything particularly too drastic about the centre field position for the sake of "keeping it open for Felix Pie". Felix Pie is still nothing but a prospect, albeit a very good one at that. Prospect failure rates being what they are, sometimes because of a lack of talent, or a lack of talent compatible with the majors, sometimes because of a lack of effort or dedication, sometimes because of injury, it makes little sense to pencil Pie in at this stage as the Opening Day 2007 centre fielder.

 

It makes a lot more sense to work on the assumption that Pie will not make it, or better yet that Pie doesn't exist. Then the worst that can happen is that the continguency plan proves unnecessary, and you have an embarrassment of riches and an in-demand trading chip, in an AJ Pierzynski/Joe Mauer/Joe Nathan/Francisco Liriano/Boof Bonser kind of way, assuming of course that you were sensible as always when it came to the contracts. On the other hand, if you work on the assumption that Pie will make it, it's possible that you can end up with absolutely no-one, and thus put yourself into a weak and disadvantaged negotiating position when it comes to filling the vacancy. The Cubs have continuously done this over the years: they've purposely held spots open for people that have never come. Especially after this last season, Hendry must learn that a continguency plan too many is better than none at all.

 

I agree with the top part, but disagree on the concept of not "holding" a spot for a rookie. What exactly is Phily going to do. They have one of the best prospects in the game sitting in AAA because the guy ahead of him is now old, oft injured and making a crap load of money for the next several years. Phily must be kicking themselves.

 

No. The problem in Philadelphia is not they have two players at the first base position because Howard has developed into seemingly quite a fine player, the problem is that they gave Thome a contract that was at the time, is now and ever shall be a bad contract, they handed out too much money over too many years to a player that due to his conditioning was less likely than most to remain productive late into his career, and that has been obvious all along: after all, I spoke at great length on the subject of Thome's bad contract back in March. Had the Phillies signed Thome to a sensible contract, or, discerning that to be impossible, as it probably would have been, simply not signed Thome at all and instead chosen another option, they wouldn't be in this situation. Alternatively, they could have moved Thome last winter, when Ryan Howard was every bit as ready to take over as he was when he did eventually graduate upon Thome getting injured. That said, given that I was personally sceptical as to whether or not Howard could make the conversion from the minors to majors, I can't say that it was obvious to me that they ought to have made the move and then handed Howard the job last winter. All the same, it's something the Phillies themselves, with presumably a greater understanding of Howard's limitations, ought to have been considering. Maybe they did, and maybe they thought it a good idea, maybe they just didn't have the balls to pull the trigger because of what ESPN might say, who knows. But it's a bad situation they're in now (though I think the idea of a Beltre for Thome and Bell trade would be an excellent solution for them).

 

I'm all for not just handing any rookie a spot to sink or swim. I definitely think that's the wrong approach on Cedeno. I'd rather see Cedeno earn it. Who blocks Pie now that either couldn't be traded or benched if Pie keeps improving like he has? My idea of going after Lofton gives us a bunch of guys who could keep centerfield productive in '06. Signing Damon to a long term deal to play center would be pulling a Philadelphia move, which could really come back and bite you.

 

Though you haven't accused me of doing so, I'd like to point out first of all that I'm not personally advocating going after Damon, firstly because he's not actually that good, secondly because he's likely to be too expensive relative to how good he actually is, thirdly because he has a skillset in terms of average and speed that doesn't age particularly well, and fourthly because, in light of that, he's going to be looking for a deal that extends too far into his thirties as far as I'm concerned. As a result, I could certainly see a Damon deal ending up as a bad contract, and as a result becoming somewhat unmoveable and therefore a significant problem regardless of whether or not Pie matures into the player that we all want him to become. Pie is irrelevant to the discussion as to whether Damon, or any other player, would be a good acquisition. And provided the player is a good acquisition, if Pie pans out, that's a bonus that gives you an embarrassment of riches. Therefore whether or not the player would be a good acquisition has to be the decisive factor, not whether potentially the acquisition would block Pie.

 

Kenny Lofton. Bleh. It's my somewhat irrelevant and not really proven at all opinion that Lofton will hit about .262/.330/.345 next year, and that that combined with his defence, which is now average at best, will make him thoroughly useless.