Great quote by Pujols.....

[dalgreen]

The Cardinals ownership wants to win.

 

The Cubs ownership wants to make money.

 

Therein lies the difference. The Trib is really no different than Phil Wrigley was in that respect.

 

Your opinion would be more valid if the Cub ownership allocated less money to Hendry than what Cardinal ownership allocates to Jocketty. Or do you think they gave Hendry $100 million and told him, "spend it unwisely."

 

The Trib has more in the way of resources than the Cardinals will ever have, yet the Cardinals run rings around the Cubs when it comes to scouting, development, etc. because the Trib will pour in just enough to be competitive and keep the fans coming back.

 

You can't just look at player salaries. You have to look at the entire organization.

 

I agree with you that it's a total organization thing than a payroll thing. However, one reason why the Cards have been successful than the Cubs in the last 11 years (not to mention the last eighty years) has been better personnel decisions. The "experts" have said the Cubs have had the better minor league talent for some of those 11 years, but we haven't been the recipients of this so-called talent. And, remember, stockholders buy shares of the Tribune Co. because of its main purpose -- mass media, not the Cubs. Now if we can get a million stockholders who only cared about the Cubs and not the LA Times, Chicago Tribune, KPLR-tv, WGN-tv, KWGN-tv, and the dozens of other media outlets than maybe we can toss more and more out there. But I still contend that we haven't had people making smart decisions with the dollars they do have to work with. I believe JC mentioned Jeromy Burnitz as an example, and that's a good example. Remember Hendry was interested in him as early as 2003 when CPatt was hurt. Why? And why did he still have this fixation with him two years later when he wasn't being courted by others? This thread isn't meant to be turned into a Sosa vs. Burnitz thread, but this is an example of poor decisions made by the Cubs that turns a high payroll into a moot point. If you're going to spend $87 million or $100 million stupidly then you might as well only have a $70 million payroll.

[Tim]

 

The Cubs had an 87 million dollar payroll this season. Not 100 million. I can't believe people let MacPhail and Co. get away with that line of garbage all season.

 

Yeah, if they really cared about winning they would've kept Sosa! That way they could've had an even greater sinkhole in the OF and had a 100 million dollar payroll. Then they'd care about winning to you, and that's all that matters.

 

Good point. People who say paying off bad contracts shouldn't count on payrolls should consider the alternative.

 

What alternative, that we kept Sosa and his salary? While I acknowledge Sosa's massive decline, Jeromy Burnitz didn't lead us anywhere to speak of. The organization's obsession with moving Sosa was an obvious distraction to bettering this team. While the club fielded an $87M team with respect to the "talent" under contract, it is unfair to blur the line and call it a $100M team that is inflated due to bad business decisions. Their may be $100M in expenditures toward the 2005 budget, but their isn't close to $100M in talent on the team. That is why its a lie in the context in which it has sometimes been used.

It is an $87M roster, but there's no denying that it is a $100M payroll.

 

And I would hazard a guess, to someone else's point, that the Cubs spend at least as much (or more) on minor league player acquisition and development than the Cards.

 

The "bottom line" is that the Cubs aren't chintzy, they just also not wise.

[Larry Horse]

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/6C9E1B148C98E9C18625705F001272CF?OpenDocument

 

"You don't play to win the division, you play to win the championship ring," first baseman Albert Pujols said. "We didn't get it last year. How many Central Division titles does this team have? We don't care about that. It doesn't matter what kind of record we have. Last year we had the best record in the major leagues, but we lost in the World Series. Nobody's talking about (the record). Everybody talks about the world champions. You concentrate on getting back there and winning."

 

Thank you Albert.

 

This is the attitude I wish all Cub fans had.

 

Back-to-back winning seasons and being 5 outs from the World Series are not things to be celebrated.

 

Pujols' first sentence of that quote says it all.

 

Who cares about the fans, I wish the players had this attitude.

 

Point well taken.

[fulldeck]

Going back to the original quote, I do have to say that TLR's teams take on his attitude and desire quite effectively. In that way, the team is drinking the same kool-aid that the fans do.

 

*Play nine and you have a chance.

*We come in, go about our business, and good things happen.

*This is just one game and we have to get ready for tomorrow.

*I knew that I just had to get on base because I knew the guys behind me would drive me in.

*We have a different star every night.

[BigbadB]

The Yankees are proof that he who spends the most wins is not true. The Yankees haven't won the big game since 2000.

 

Poor business decisions have been the Cubs curse of late. Selling Sosa at his lowest value made for a poor return. Not just in returned talent in trade, but in how much the Orioles paid to take Sosa.

 

Hiring a manager whose managing style goes against the grain of the direction of the organization is another poor decision.

 

While I have tried to steer clear of pointing fingers at upper management to this point, I find it harder to do so when Dusty's poor management phylosophy is rewarded and encouraged rather than punished.

 

From where I sit, this team had enough talent to battle for a playoff spot this year. Poor management destroyed that opportunity. For that, I do now also point the finger at Hendry and MacPhail, along with Dusty.

[NorthsideAvenger]

The problem that I see is that, is not the Cubs don't HAVE people who wants to win, it's a matter of how it's done that the problem. Both Hendry and Baker--regardless of personal outcry---wants to win. Hendry wants it done with a mixture of veteran and young players, whereas Baker wants it done with veterans. When two of your "key management personnel" are NOT on the same page, then it tends to divide the organization in half.

 

If Baker wants to stay, and Hendry and the Cubs are willing to give him the 2 yr extension (as rumored), then both guys need to have a sit-down, beating out discussion about how the Cubs in 2006 and beyond should be run. If Baker can't agree with the philiosophy then both parties needs to spearate. The Cubs NEED stability, rather it is with Baker, Girardi, or whoever they want to manage. And Baker needs to stop blaming everybody and everything else for the team's mistake ain't helping.

[dalgreen]

 

From where I sit, this team had enough talent to battle for a playoff spot this year. Poor management destroyed that opportunity.

 

Was this before or after the injuries to Wood, Prior and Nomar? I thought it was a playoff team back in March, if and only if Wood and Prior remained healthy the whole season. That's when I criticized Hendry for taking such a large gamble on two pitchers with a history of injuries.

 

I also think poor baseball decisions be it personnel decisions, managerial choices, baseball philosophy, etc. have been the curse of the Cubs and not some stupid goat.

[dalgreen]

The problem that I see is that, is not the Cubs don't HAVE people who wants to win, it's a matter of how it's done that the problem. Both Hendry and Baker--regardless of personal outcry---wants to win. Hendry wants it done with a mixture of veteran and young players, whereas Baker wants it done with veterans. When two of your "key management personnel" are NOT on the same page, then it tends to divide the organization in half.

 

If Baker wants to stay, and Hendry and the Cubs are willing to give him the 2 yr extension (as rumored), then both guys need to have a sit-down, beating out discussion about how the Cubs in 2006 and beyond should be run. If Baker can't agree with the philiosophy then both parties needs to spearate. The Cubs NEED stability, rather it is with Baker, Girardi, or whoever they want to manage. And Baker needs to stop blaming everybody and everything else for the team's mistake ain't helping.

 

Baker's veteran fetish is ridiculous and moronic, but let's not forget that Hendry knew this when interviewing him and when hiring him. Hendry "enabled" Baker's veteran disease by making vets like Burnitz, Macias, Hollandsworth and Perez available to him. To me, Hendry doesn't get let off the hook just because it took a "butt-whooping" in Atlanta halfway through the season to open up his eyes.

[Magnetic Curses]

 

The Cubs had an 87 million dollar payroll this season. Not 100 million. I can't believe people let MacPhail and Co. get away with that line of garbage all season.

 

Yeah, if they really cared about winning they would've kept Sosa! That way they could've had an even greater sinkhole in the OF and had a 100 million dollar payroll. Then they'd care about winning to you, and that's all that matters.

 

Good point. People who say paying off bad contracts shouldn't count on payrolls should consider the alternative.

 

What alternative, that we kept Sosa and his salary? While I acknowledge Sosa's massive decline, Jeromy Burnitz didn't lead us anywhere to speak of. The organization's obsession with moving Sosa was an obvious distraction to bettering this team. While the club fielded an $87M team with respect to the "talent" under contract, it is unfair to blur the line and call it a $100M team that is inflated due to bad business decisions. Their may be $100M in expenditures toward the 2005 budget, but their isn't close to $100M in talent on the team. That is why its a lie in the context in which it has sometimes been used.

 

100 million in talent? We're paying Zambrano and Prior a combined 7 million. The point that LoneStar made was that the "illusion" of a 100 million dollar payroll is the fault of the Trib. If you want to say the talent doesn't reflect the payroll, then blame Hendry. The Trib isn't at fault.

 

:scratch:

 

I must have missed something. My intention wasn't to fault anyone for the amount of money spent. Rather, I was just agreeing that the roster isn't a $100M roster as some in the organization have tried to argue.

 

the argument was the same tired old argument concerning the blame which should be given out. i don't think you can blame the trib, if they significantly cut payroll this year and it's back to around 85-87, then yes, blame them for being cheap. i blame hendry for a terrible off-season and dusty for pretty much everything he can be blamed for. he did everything wrong this year and he shouldn't be the manager.

 

technically speaking, the trib pumped more revenue back into their team than anyone else in the national league, and it's unfair to blame them for anything that's happened, and this is coming from me.

[frostwyrm]

It is an $87M roster, but there's no denying that it is a $100M payroll.

 

I agree, but ultimately if we are discussing the owners' willingness to spend or the team's wisdom in spending then the payroll size is the only relevant figure. $100M was spent on players, period. Whether we kept Sosa or paid off part of his contract and shipped him to another team is irrelevant. The Cubs made a huge financial committment to Sosa and enjoyed/suffered the consequences.

[hardcorecubfan]

I heard an interview with Andy on the Score and Ofman asked him what he was most proud of during his tenure, and his response was the attendance records.

 

Spoken like a sellout.

 

or like a business man, wait until Florida has four free agents come up at the same time and see if they can afford them, nobody shows up to there games even with them conteding, eventually it will bite them in the butt.

 

Our money is just not spent wisely

[CuseCubFan69]

IMO...Wrigley is the big draw, especially when the Cubs are losing. Put a crud park...say like the Cell there and you'd have 15K there.

[leatherguts]

IMO...Wrigley is the big draw, especially when the Cubs are losing. Put a crud park...say like the Cell there and you'd have 15K there.

 

 

Correct. When going to the games, how many others notice the amount of fans wearing "Wrigley Field" shirts? What kind of BS is that? I've never once seen "Busch Stadium" or even a "Yankee Stadium" apparel being worn or sold.

[gus_dog]

IMO...Wrigley is the big draw, especially when the Cubs are losing. Put a crud park...say like the Cell there and you'd have 15K there.

 

 

Correct. When going to the games, how many others notice the amount of fans wearing "Wrigley Field" shirts? What kind of BS is that? I've never once seen "Busch Stadium" or even a "Yankee Stadium" apparel being worn or sold.

 

Not for me. I call BS.

[abuck1220]

Am I the only one that got JC's joke?

 

Sellout ---- attendance figures???

 

 

I think many only saw one entendre. :D

 

i got it...it just wasn't funny. like most of his jokes.

[dhaab]

this is a badly run baseball team, and the only problem i have with the trib corp is that it hasn't fired macphail yet.

 

I heard Murphy on the radio the other day say MacPhail is exactly the kind of guy the big boys in the Trib Tower (like FitzSimons) enjoy hanging out with at their country clubs. He walks and talks just like them.