D-Lee MVP Odds

[rynesrevenge0206]

I periodically check these kinds of things on my sports betting website, but I was amazed at the number I saw this time....

 

Derrek Lee is only a 5:1 favorite of winning the MVP award according to sportingbetusa.com

 

Albert is 5:9 and Andruw is 2:1.

 

Derrek is killing Andruw in every category except for HR (by 3) and RBI (by 9). Not only does Andruw's .270 average look terrible next to D-Lee's .346, but the 78 runs and only 20 doubles make me question the 2:1 odds.

 

D-Lee and Albert are quite close, with Derrek leading in HR (39-34), Albert in RBI (99 to 94) and D-Lee in OBP, SLG, and AVG.

 

I guess it all comes down to whether or not Albert should be treated differently based on the fact that his team went to the playoffs. (Duh.) What I want to know is how many of you guys think D-Lee would get voted MVP if the season ended today?

[treebird]

only smart people are going to vote for derrek, and smart people generally arent allowed to vote for mvp.

[imb]

Hahaha I love that Andruw is now the co-leader with Pujols.

 

I mean, HR's are nice, but let's be serious.

 

Jones .272/.357/.593

Pujols .331/.424/.612

Lee .346/.428/.681

 

Lee leads both in EVERY CATEGORY.

[Mike Aller]

Hahaha I love that Andruw is now the co-leader with Pujols.

 

I mean, HR's are nice, but let's be serious.

 

Jones .272/.357/.593

Pujols .331/.424/.612

Lee .346/.428/.681

 

Lee leads both in EVERY CATEGORY.

Most Valuable Player doesn't always coincide with best stats. And to tell you the truth, if a team doesn't make the playoffs, he isn't going to get as much attention.

 

People are less prone to call someone valuable if their team doesn't make the playoffs, even if it isn't their fault.

[imb]

Yeah, I'm no idiot, I realize this. But look at something like RC/G

 

Lee 10.9

Pujols 9.7

Jones 6.3

 

There are 23 players in the NL that have a higher RC/G than Andruw. Aramis is one, Chase Utley is one, Juan Encarnacion is another.

 

Win Shares

 

Lee 32

Pujols 31

Jones 19

 

And that is with Fielding included. Hell, Jones isn't even the most valuable player on his team, the much maligned Rafael Furcal is, with 20 Win Shares.

[Derwood]

I think the voters put 3 names on a dart board and pick that way every year. Was Bonds more valuable than Pujols the last couple of years? Heck, how valuable was Andre Dawson on a last place team?

 

On the other hand, Sosa beat out McGwire despite fewer HR, and Terry Pendelton won with a .319, 22 HR, 86 RBI line in 1991.

[Tim]

Jones is up there because for a long time he was the only productive veteran on Atlanta -- and they pulled away with a lead in the East. Now, everyone knows that rookies can't be the reason that they did well, so it must be Andruw's home runs that propelled Atl to that lead.

[sonofsamiam]

I think the voters put 3 names on a dart board and pick that way every year. Was Bonds more valuable than Pujols the last couple of years? Heck, how valuable was Andre Dawson on a last place team?

 

On the other hand, Sosa beat out McGwire despite fewer HR, and Terry Pendelton won with a .319, 22 HR, 86 RBI line in 1991.

 

Pujols' best argument for an MVP was '03, mainly because he played more than Bonds -- Bonds got it for his surreal numbers coupled with SF making the playoffs.

 

Neither Dawson, Sosa, nor Pendleton really deserved the MVPs the years they won them. McGwire probably deserved it more than Sosa, objectively (yes, I hate McGwire and the Cards) -- again, this was because of playoffs.

 

Which sort of makes the point. Of course it's ridiculous that A. Jones will get more votes for MVP than Lee, but the media is dumb. Certainly the Braves success could have nothing to do with very good pitching, one of the best DP combos (both hitting and fielding) in the majors, and many young players who picked up the slack in the wake of injuries.

 

It will be interesting to see if Jones slumps and D-Lee pulls away from both him and Pujols in the numbers. However, if the season were to end today, I think Pujols wins it, and I think the only way Lee wins it is if he actually wins the Triple Crown (which won't happen -- he's got no shot at the RBI title, IMO).

[erik316wttn]

The way I look at it......

 

Both the Braves and the Cardinals would likely be there without Jones and Pujols.......... the Cubs would have finished in AAA this year without D Lee.

[thedaymen]

I don't think there is any way Jones is near Lee's value this year. Pujols and Lee are close, but Lee has a small edge across the board offensively, and may be the best defensive first baseman in baseball right now. Pujols isn't close.

 

But, since I expect that Dontrelle will easily win the Cy Young Award because he is almost as good as Clemmons and Carpenter but has a better publicist, I think Lee will have to win the triple crown to win the MVP.

 

I expect Pujols will have it otherwise.

[CuseCubFan69]

What are Clemens winshares?

[sonofsamiam]

What are Clemens winshares?

 

22, as of August 22nd.

 

That's a phenomenal total for a pitcher in this day and age with a month left to go.

[YearofDaCubs]

What are Clemens winshares?

 

22, as of August 22nd.

 

That's a phenomenal total for a pitcher in this day and age with a month left to go.

Much respect to Clemens but I hope he doesnt get the CY Young again. It's getting redundant. :)

[CuseCubFan69]

What are Clemens winshares?

 

22, as of August 22nd.

 

That's a phenomenal total for a pitcher in this day and age with a month left to go.

 

Thanks. Man was I wrong about how well he would do in the NL.

[UK1679666180]

Batting and Fielding Runs Above Avg.

 

Lee-77

Pujols-57

Jones-31

[Backtobanks]

This argument always comes up at this time of the year. I think there ought to be 2 awards.....Player of the Year and Most Valuable Player. The MVP would have to come from a team that finished 1st or 2nd in their division while the Player of the Year could come from any team. Obviously, one player could win both awards. That would solve the problem of whether to vote for the SS hitting .270 on the championship team or the OF hitting .350 on a last place team.

[imb]

I still don't see a difference. No one has been more valuable than Lee this season. Pujols has been close.

 

The reason the Cardinals are going to the playoffs has more to do with the players around Pujols, hitters, fielders and pitchers.

 

Put Lee on the Cardinals this season, and they would be even further ahead of the Cubs than they already are.

 

Lee, despite the players around him sucking for the most part, has been more valuable than anyone else this season. The fact that we arent going to the playoffs has less to do with him and more to do with garbage he's surrounded with.

[neely crenshaw]

i really think it should come down to lee and jones. pujols has great stats and will get a look but if you are looking for the mvp. where would the cubs and braves be without lee/jones. the cards have had some injuries but even with those, pujols has had more help than either of lee/jones. it probably goes to jones since they are playoff bound but lee could steal it if he wins or is close to the triple crown

[CardsFanInChiTown]

I believe it does but I'll ask anyway. Does Win Shares take in account for park differences?

[johnnyba99]

What are the winshares, RC/G, etc. for Miguel Cabrera? Stat wise he seems to be right there with Lee and Pujols, but nobody ever talks about him. Just curious.

 

EDIT: Checked that he's had a pretty bad month of August and his stats have dropped. Bust just out of curiosity if someone has the answer to the question. Thanks!

[AC036198]

only smart people are going to vote for derrek, and smart people generally arent allowed to vote for mvp.

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

[sonofsamiam]

I believe it does but I'll ask anyway. Does Win Shares take in account for park differences?

 

Yep. Win Shares, frankly, takes into account just about everything.

 

And as of 8/22, Lee was only 1 WS ahead of Pujols, which is roughly 1/3 of a game better. Those are the only 2 guys that really should be considered.

 

Andruw Jones, as of that date, was 12 or 13 Win Shares behind both those guys. Both Furcal and Marcus Giles had one more Win Share apiece than Pujols.

 

It's sorta ironic -- all the writers love to talk about guys who "do the little things", etc. Well, Giles and Furcal are 2 of those guys, but when it's MVP time, they're totally ignored in favor of the guy who hits the home runs.

[sonofsamiam]

What are the winshares, RC/G, etc. for Miguel Cabrera? Stat wise he seems to be right there with Lee and Pujols, but nobody ever talks about him. Just curious.

 

EDIT: Checked that he's had a pretty bad month of August and his stats have dropped. Bust just out of curiosity if someone has the answer to the question. Thanks!

 

As of 8/22, Cabrera was tied for 10th (along with Clemens and Burrell) in the NL with 22 Win Shares.

 

See this Hardball Times link for more.

 

As far as RC per game, he's 4th. Link. Of course, that doesn't take into account park factors, so Helton is No. 3.

[johnnyba99]

What are the winshares, RC/G, etc. for Miguel Cabrera? Stat wise he seems to be right there with Lee and Pujols, but nobody ever talks about him. Just curious.

 

EDIT: Checked that he's had a pretty bad month of August and his stats have dropped. Bust just out of curiosity if someone has the answer to the question. Thanks!

 

As of 8/22, Cabrera was tied for 10th (along with Clemens and Burrell) in the NL with 22 Win Shares.

 

See this Hardball Times link for more.

 

As far as RC per game, he's 4th. Link. Of course, that doesn't take into account park factors, so Helton is No. 3.

 

Thanks. And also thanks for the link there is some good info on that hardballtimes. I've wondered where to find some of the newer stats.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

What are the winshares, RC/G, etc. for Miguel Cabrera? Stat wise he seems to be right there with Lee and Pujols, but nobody ever talks about him. Just curious.

 

EDIT: Checked that he's had a pretty bad month of August and his stats have dropped. Bust just out of curiosity if someone has the answer to the question. Thanks!

 

As of 8/22, Cabrera was tied for 10th (along with Clemens and Burrell) in the NL with 22 Win Shares.

 

See this Hardball Times link for more.

 

As far as RC per game, he's 4th. Link. Of course, that doesn't take into account park factors, so Helton is No. 3.

 

THT's RC includes Park Factors according to their stat glossary.