8/7 Cubs (Zambrano) at Mets (Zambrano) 7:05 PM CT ESPN

[YearofDaCubs]

The Yahoo box score of the game said that Zambrano left the game with stiffness in his back

Basketball injury when you go on the DL haha :)

[Transmogrified Tiger]

TOP OF THE EIGHTH INNING

 

Barrett doubled to left field

Macias doubled to right center field, Barret scored

Murton, pinch hitting for Novoa, flied out to center field

Lawton grounded out to second, 4-3, Macias to third

Perez grounded out to first, 3-1

 

1 runs, 2 hits, 0 errors, 1 men left on base

 

           1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9    R H E
CUBS       0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1      1 5 2 
NY Mets    2 0 2 0 1 0 1        6 9 0 

 

Home runs: NY Mets: Floyd (26)

 

Friggin' Macias and his .296 average are killing this team! Why is he even on the roster?

 

Nevermind that he has been nothing short of atrocious in CF, and has cost us runs. But he has a .296 AVG!

 

I hate Macias, too, but you're going way overboard. There's a reason why he's our third string CF. That's like getting mad at a 3rd string QB having a bad game.

 

I'd compare it more to getting mad at the 3rd String QB while the 2nd string sits on the bench.

[dalgreen]

You dont worry about advancing the runner WHEN YOU ARE DOWN BE FIVE RUNS IN THE EIGTH you try to get on base. Hollandsworth didnt do it when they were down by two runs in the 2nd

 

I think Hollandsworth is a piece of crap. If you're going to try to get on base by swinging the bat then hit it to the right side. At least you'd contribute to the 2nd run. Sorry, I play for the full 27 outs and not 24 outs.

[ToupeeOnFire]

So Murton doesn't hit the ball to the right side to advance the runner to third and he gets a free pass? Oh, yeah, he's a kid, so fundamentals don't matter for kids.

 

If you're trying to defend Baker, you're really grasping at straws.

 

And you can't construct a reasonable argument for Holla playing over Matt, at least a this point. It is impossible. If Murton gets consistent AB's and is as bad as Holla has been, then things like Murton failing to move a runner might have some relevance.

 

Unfortunately, with Dusty...

 

...when Hollandsworth comes up with runners on first and second in the second inning of a game in which in they trail 2-0 in the second inning with nobody out, and he proceeds to hit into a double play, it's just tough luck for the veteran.

 

...when Murton comes with a runner on second and nobody out (in a 6-1 game in the top of the 8th) and he flys out...well, it's proof that the kid can't execute and shouldn't be playing.

 

While I don't like to make excuses for the younger players, at least they have an excuse. What does Todd Hollandsworth have?

[XZero771679666304]

So Murton doesn't hit the ball to the right side to advance the runner to third and he gets a free pass? Oh, yeah, he's a kid, so fundamentals don't matter for kids.

 

If you're trying to defend Baker, you're really grasping at straws.

 

And you can't construct a reasonable argument for Holla playing over Matt, at least a this point. It is impossible. If Murton gets consistent AB's and is as bad as Holla has been, then things like Murton failing to move a runner might have some relevance.

 

Please. What I said had nothing to do with Dusty Baker. Bad play is bad play. I just love how folks who despise Baker's love of veterans are the same ones who will overlook poor plays by young kids. Bad play is bad play. By the way, I believe Murton will be a good player, but right now I do think he's best suited against lefties. From what I've seen, he hasn't hit too many balls hard against right handers. I'm fine if you make outs, as long as they're hard hit outs. But I'm being critical of Murton just as I would Holla, Macias or all the other whipping boys.

 

Sorry, but I just believe a guy should get consistent AB's before passing judgement. Holla and Perez are whipping boys because they have gotten long stretches of consistent play and showed that they consistently stink. When Dubois got a month of consistent AB's and didn't do much, I wa ssatified that he got his shot, and wasn't as good as some made him out to be. But Holla and Perez just deserve more criticism than Murton at this point.

 

And I don't think too many people in this thread are taking the time to point out fundamental mistakes by anyone at this point. This is just an unmitigated disaster.

[sethuel1]

I feel so horrible for Ron. The last two seasons have taken years off his life.

[YearofDaCubs]

Wow, how many time were we swept this year?

[Fred Hornkohl]

TOP OF THE NINTH INNING

 

Heilman in to pitch for the NY Mets

Lee grounded out to third, 5-3

Ramirez struck out swinging

Garciaparra singled to left field

Hollandsworth flied out to center field

 

0 runs, 1 hits, 0 errors, 1 men left on base

 

           1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9    R  H E
CUBS       0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0    1  6 2 
NY Mets    2 0 2 0 1 0 1 0 x    6 10 0 

 

W: Zambrano (6-9)

S: none

L: Zambrano (8-5)

 

T: 2:41

A: 40,321

 

Home runs: NY Mets: Floyd (26)

 

pitcher     IP  H  R ER BB  K HR PIT
Zambrano   3.0  4  4  2  3  2  0  80 
Wuertz     2.0  3  0  0  0  1  0  21 
Novoa      2.0  2  1  1  0  1  1  26 
Williamson 1.0  1  0  0  0  1  0  17 

Edited August 8, 2005 by Fred Hornkohl

[XZero771679666304]

So Murton doesn't hit the ball to the right side to advance the runner to third and he gets a free pass? Oh, yeah, he's a kid, so fundamentals don't matter for kids.

 

If you're trying to defend Baker, you're really grasping at straws.

 

And you can't construct a reasonable argument for Holla playing over Matt, at least a this point. It is impossible. If Murton gets consistent AB's and is as bad as Holla has been, then things like Murton failing to move a runner might have some relevance.

 

Unfortunately, with Dusty...

 

...when Hollandsworth comes up with runners on first and second in the second inning of a game in which in they trail 2-0 in the second inning with nobody out, and he proceeds to hit into a double play, it's just tough luck for the veteran.

 

...when Murton comes with a runner on second and nobody out (in a 6-1 game in the top of the 8th) and he flys out...well, it's proof that the kid can't execute and shouldn't be playing.

 

While I don't like to make excuses for the younger players, at least they have an excuse. What does Todd Hollandsworth have?

 

Exactly. Holla is a "proven veteran", who has gotten consistent AB's for large stretches otf this season.

 

Matt Murton is a guy just out of AA who has a hard time seeing more than one AB at a time.

 

Lumping the two together isn't right.

[JGalt73]

Hollandsworth, Perez, and Macias contributed 1/2 of the team's hits AND WE STILL LOST! Edited August 8, 2005 by JGalt73

[Connor McConnor]

Just a thought. Any coincidence that the same time period has been hotter than you know what.....and the Cubs are playing more day games than anyone else (through a very hot Summer)?

 

That's an old, silly and completely irrelevant argument, as Baker's been doing stupid crap like discouraging patience and starting Macias since Day One.

 

I know I'm reaching.....but.......We've tried everything else for 100 years. Build a new stadium! Too much bad Karma in Wrigley. It travels with the team.

 

:roll:

 

Ok....we play more day games than any other team by far. And we havent won a World Series in 100 years. How silly....why even consider it.

 

I've been watching players, managers, GM's, Ownership, Hall of Famers, bums, and just about everything else, go through Wrigley Field for about 40 years except.......A World Series winner. They all come and go....but one thing remains constant. Wrigley.....Bad baseball teams..... and No World Series.

[dalgreen]

TOP OF THE EIGHTH INNING

 

Barrett doubled to left field

Macias doubled to right center field, Barret scored

Murton, pinch hitting for Novoa, flied out to center field

Lawton grounded out to second, 4-3, Macias to third

Perez grounded out to first, 3-1

 

1 runs, 2 hits, 0 errors, 1 men left on base

 

           1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9    R H E
CUBS       0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1      1 5 2 
NY Mets    2 0 2 0 1 0 1        6 9 0 

 

Home runs: NY Mets: Floyd (26)

 

Friggin' Macias and his .296 average are killing this team! Why is he even on the roster?

 

Nevermind that he has been nothing short of atrocious in CF, and has cost us runs. But he has a .296 AVG!

 

I hate Macias, too, but you're going way overboard. There's a reason why he's our third string CF. That's like getting mad at a 3rd string QB having a bad game.

 

I'd compare it more to getting mad at the 3rd String QB while the 2nd string sits on the bench.

 

Who's the second string CF? I'm glad Burnitz finally got a night off. Burnitz should have sat a game in Philly, at the least.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Fred, Williamson had a K during his inning.

[YearofDaCubs]

TOP OF THE EIGHTH INNING

 

Barrett doubled to left field

Macias doubled to right center field, Barret scored

Murton, pinch hitting for Novoa, flied out to center field

Lawton grounded out to second, 4-3, Macias to third

Perez grounded out to first, 3-1

 

1 runs, 2 hits, 0 errors, 1 men left on base

 

           1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9    R H E
CUBS       0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1      1 5 2 
NY Mets    2 0 2 0 1 0 1        6 9 0 

 

Home runs: NY Mets: Floyd (26)

 

Friggin' Macias and his .296 average are killing this team! Why is he even on the roster?

 

Nevermind that he has been nothing short of atrocious in CF, and has cost us runs. But he has a .296 AVG!

 

I hate Macias, too, but you're going way overboard. There's a reason why he's our third string CF. That's like getting mad at a 3rd string QB having a bad game.

 

I'd compare it more to getting mad at the 3rd String QB while the 2nd string sits on the bench.

 

Who's the second string CF? I'm glad Burnitz finally got a night off. Burnitz should have sat a game in Philly, at the least.

Time for Lee to sit at least one game. Hes slumping.

[Brian]

If macias is in center tomorrow (or anywhere, but the bench) I'm going to throw my tv out the window... and it'a pretty big. Neifi better be on the bench, hollandsworth better be on the bench. oh whatever I don't even care anymore.

[XZero771679666304]

TOP OF THE EIGHTH INNING

 

Barrett doubled to left field

Macias doubled to right center field, Barret scored

Murton, pinch hitting for Novoa, flied out to center field

Lawton grounded out to second, 4-3, Macias to third

Perez grounded out to first, 3-1

 

1 runs, 2 hits, 0 errors, 1 men left on base

 

           1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9    R H E
CUBS       0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1      1 5 2 
NY Mets    2 0 2 0 1 0 1        6 9 0 

 

Home runs: NY Mets: Floyd (26)

 

Friggin' Macias and his .296 average are killing this team! Why is he even on the roster?

 

Nevermind that he has been nothing short of atrocious in CF, and has cost us runs. But he has a .296 AVG!

 

I hate Macias, too, but you're going way overboard. There's a reason why he's our third string CF. That's like getting mad at a 3rd string QB having a bad game.

 

I'd compare it more to getting mad at the 3rd String QB while the 2nd string sits on the bench.

 

Who's the second string CF? I'm glad Burnitz finally got a night off. Burnitz should have sat a game in Philly, at the least.

 

I agree, but the guy who really needs a day or two off is Lee.

[YearofDaCubs]

Wow, just wow, Santo I think has lost it.

[scs_paradise]

Wow, just wow, Santo I think has lost it.

 

what did he say?

[JGalt73]

Wow, just wow, Santo I think has lost it.

 

Ron has to watch this happen against the Mets. (Hopefully he doesn't really shoot anyone...)

[rickrolled]

Wow, just wow, Santo I think has lost it.

 

what'd he say?

[Cubzfan64]

Wow, just wow, Santo I think has lost it.

 

I can't watch, did he say something or is he just generally downcast?

[Blueheart05]

Wow, just wow, Santo I think has lost it.

 

what did he say?

 

"Let's get out of here. Let's just get out of here." No surprise, he hates NY and more importantly, he hates losing to the Mets.

[dalgreen]

Just a thought. Any coincidence that the same time period has been hotter than you know what.....and the Cubs are playing more day games than anyone else (through a very hot Summer)?

 

That's an old, silly and completely irrelevant argument, as Baker's been doing stupid crap like discouraging patience and starting Macias since Day One.

 

I know I'm reaching.....but.......We've tried everything else for 100 years. Build a new stadium! Too much bad Karma in Wrigley. It travels with the team.

 

:roll:

 

Ok....we play more day games than any other team by far. And we havent won a World Series in 100 years. How silly....why even consider it.

 

I've been watching players, managers, GM's, Ownership, Hall of Famers, bums, and just about everything else, go through Wrigley Field for about 40 years except.......A World Series winner. They all come and go....but one thing remains constant. Wrigley.....Bad baseball teams..... and No World Series.

 

I don't buy that at all. Explain 1984 and 2003? I think the Cubs have had horrible management over the past fifty years....well I've only been following them since the late '70's, and I've seen the Cub organization get rid of Bill Madlock, Lee Smith, Bruce Sutter, Greg Maddux, Rafael Palmeiro (okay no jokes), Dallas Green and the list goes on and on. If anyone should have folded it should've been the West Coast teams prior to expansion. In the old two divison format, the Dodgers and Giants had 2000 mile road trips every road trip except when playing the California teams. It didn't hurt their playoff runs. The Cubs just have had atrocious management over the years.

[JGalt73]

Wow, just wow, Santo I think has lost it.

 

I can't watch, did he say something or is he just generally downcast?

 

A fan was yelling below the box and could be caught on the mic. Ron says "I'm going to shoot that guy." :camper:

[Cubzfan64]

Just a thought. Any coincidence that the same time period has been hotter than you know what.....and the Cubs are playing more day games than anyone else (through a very hot Summer)?

 

That's an old, silly and completely irrelevant argument, as Baker's been doing stupid crap like discouraging patience and starting Macias since Day One.

 

I know I'm reaching.....but.......We've tried everything else for 100 years. Build a new stadium! Too much bad Karma in Wrigley. It travels with the team.

 

:roll:

 

Ok....we play more day games than any other team by far. And we havent won a World Series in 100 years. How silly....why even consider it.

 

I've been watching players, managers, GM's, Ownership, Hall of Famers, bums, and just about everything else, go through Wrigley Field for about 40 years except.......A World Series winner. They all come and go....but one thing remains constant. Wrigley.....Bad baseball teams..... and No World Series.

 

For what it's worth, I've wondered that myself about Wrigley Field. My reasoning is a little different than yours though...

 

I've often felt that the whole "stigma" of Wrigely being a home run hitters park and one where the wind is "always blowing out" etc... has caused a lot of hitters to change their hitting style to more of a free swinging upper cut type swing. Needless to say there are many many days where the wind is blowing in at Wrigley, but I've often wondered how many of our hitters have gotten into really bad habits trying to crank them over the walls during BP etc....