Lawton to Cubs for Gerut

[burnt out cubbie fan]

And if you want me to throw you a bone, Aramis is below average defensively, imo.

 

Below average? I would have to disagree with you. Aram has really improved defensively and is average to slightly above average, IMHO. Overall, I would call ARam the best 3rd basemen in the National League this year. I would put him second to only ARod this year. His defense has been solid and he is starting to become a legitimate All Star with his bat.

Have you seen him play at all while he has been in a Cubs uni? Granted, his defense has improved but it still isn't that great. He still butchers a bunch of plays and gets saved from a bunch of throwing errors by Lee. I still love his offense and love to see him in a Cubs uni but you can't deny that he is below average on defense.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

And if you want me to throw you a bone, Aramis is below average defensively, imo.

 

Below average? I would have to disagree with you. Aram has really improved defensively and is average to slightly above average, IMHO. Overall, I would call ARam the best 3rd basemen in the National League this year. I would put him second to only ARod this year. His defense has been solid and he is starting to become a legitimate All Star with his bat.

Have you seen him play at all while he has been in a Cubs uni? Granted, his defense has improved but it still isn't that great. He still butchers a bunch of plays and gets saved from a bunch of throwing errors by Lee. I still love his offense and love to see him in a Cubs uni but you can't deny that he is below average on defense.

 

I have seen a lot worse. I agree that he is not above average defensively, but I would not say that he is below average. His problem used to be his "laziness" in going after balls. His footwork was shoddy at best. While Lee has saved a lot of throws, Aramis has put himself in position to get to more balls more easily by working hard on his footwork. He is average.

[CuseCubFan69]

I wonder what type free agent Lawton will be....A or B or C?

[Guest]

I wonder what type free agent Lawton will be....A or B or C?

I would guess at least a B, but it seems whatever process they use to determine those ratings sometimes produces strange results. I'm not sure if I'd want the Cubs to offer him arbitration, anyway. It wouldn't hurt to have him around for another year or two, I suppose, but not at his current salary level. Given his production it's hard to see an arbiter deciding to give him a paycut, making the decision to offer arbitration a tough one. I'd probably try to get a 1-2 year deal done before the arbitration offer deadline passes. If he agrees to a reasonable deal (say something in the $10-$12 million over two years range) that's great. If not, let him walk.

[CuseCubFan69]

I wonder what type free agent Lawton will be....A or B or C?

I would guess at least a B, but it seems whatever process they use to determine those ratings sometimes produces strange results. I'm not sure if I'd want the Cubs to offer him arbitration, anyway. It wouldn't hurt to have him around for another year or two, I suppose, but not at his current salary level. Given his production it's hard to see an arbiter deciding to give him a paycut, making the decision to offer arbitration a tough one. I'd probably try to get a 1-2 year deal done before the arbitration offer deadline passes. If he agrees to a reasonable deal (say something in the $10-$12 million over two years range) that's great. If not, let him walk.

 

If he likes Chicago, which it seems most players do, I can't see why he wouldn't sign for what you wrote unles.....with the lack of OF free agents out there in 2006 I wonder if Lawton might get an overbid. I'd offer arb because of the lack of OF too.

[UK1679666180]

I'm having a hard time deciding on what I want the Cubs to do concerning next year's OF.

 

Burnitz has an option for next year, Patterson, Lawton, and Murton.

 

That is a bland group all the way around, Murton is intriguing b/c of his low salary, Patterson is a huge "?", Burnitz and Lawton are probably avg-below avg. corner OF'ers.

[CuseCubFan69]

I'm having a hard time deciding on what I want the Cubs to do concerning next year's OF.

 

Burnitz has an option for next year, Patterson, Lawton, and Murton.

 

That is a bland group all the way around, Murton is intriguing b/c of his low salary, Patterson is a huge "?", Burnitz and Lawton are probably avg-below avg. corner OF'ers.

 

I think the options available are going to dictate what direction Hendry is going to go.

 

Sammy will be off the books for good now, correct?

[UK1679666180]

Yep, he'll be off the books. He's a FA though :) ....

[cubweiser03]

I'm having a hard time deciding on what I want the Cubs to do concerning next year's OF.

 

Burnitz has an option for next year, Patterson, Lawton, and Murton.

 

That is a bland group all the way around, Murton is intriguing b/c of his low salary, Patterson is a huge "?", Burnitz and Lawton are probably avg-below avg. corner OF'ers.

 

Id like for them to resign Lawton. Corey isnt a leadoff guy and that leaves ss or 2b to fill that void. Id hope they get Nomar back. There isnt a good FA 2b available next year that id want to lead off. So the leadoff guy is LF or RF. Lawton OBP is pretty damn impressive, and even if he isnt a prototypical 'power' corner his OBP in the Cubs lineup is much needed. Sign Lawton and go after Giles hard. If Giles doesnt work out, Murton in LF or resign burnitz if its not too late.

[YearofDaCubs]

I'm having a hard time deciding on what I want the Cubs to do concerning next year's OF.

 

Burnitz has an option for next year, Patterson, Lawton, and Murton.

 

That is a bland group all the way around, Murton is intriguing b/c of his low salary, Patterson is a huge "?", Burnitz and Lawton are probably avg-below avg. corner OF'ers.

See, that's what has been bothering me for the longest time. Not only did Hendry not do anything to the OF he made it worse during the off-season. And since no trades were made for a significant upgrade we dont really have many options this off-season either since this crop is weak. I dont know about you but I would rather NOT give Giles a 3 year deal and have him here until he's forty. Burnitz is another year older and his contract next year is not exactly for peanuts. Too many holes on this team, and a HUGE question mark in the OF.

 

EDIT: Giles would be 35 so a 3 year deal will make sure he here when hes 38.

[HoopsCubs]

I'm having a hard time deciding on what I want the Cubs to do concerning next year's OF.

 

Burnitz has an option for next year, Patterson, Lawton, and Murton.

 

That is a bland group all the way around, Murton is intriguing b/c of his low salary, Patterson is a huge "?", Burnitz and Lawton are probably avg-below avg. corner OF'ers.

See, that's what has been bothering me for the longest time. Not only did Hendry not do anything to the OF he made it worse during the off-season. And since no trades were made for a significant upgrade we dont really have many options this off-season either since this crop is weak. I dont know about you but I would rather NOT give Giles a 3 year deal and have him here until he's forty. Burnitz is another year older and his contract next year is not exactly for peanuts. Too many holes on this team, and a HUGE question mark in the OF.

 

EDIT: Giles would be 35 so a 3 year deal will make sure he here when hes 38.

 

Let's see what the Winter Meetings hold. If Hendry wants Kearns, he'll figure something out.

[Magnetic Curses]

my first chance to ring in on this:

 

great deal, i've been a fan of lawton for some years now. the facts are: he's been the best leadoff man in the NLthis season, if he can play center, i'd like it even better.

 

it makes me cringe, however, when people refer to him as a great "contact" hitter. that's not the point, the guy gets on base! THAT IS THE DEAL. no one's talking about his IsoD being instantly tops on the team (granted, i've only been listening to the radio and haven't been around here much). the guy is a beane-type player, which is what this team has sorely lacked. right now, despite his contract, he's undervalued as a leadoff man because his average isn't over .300. but his OBP is near .400 and that's the important thing.

 

hendry got a moneyballer.

[Dr. Cub]

my first chance to ring in on this:

 

great deal, i've been a fan of lawton for some years now. the facts are: he's been the best leadoff man in the NLthis season, if he can play center, i'd like it even better.

 

it makes me cringe, however, when people refer to him as a great "contact" hitter. that's not the point, the guy gets on base! THAT IS THE DEAL. no one's talking about his IsoD being instantly tops on the team (granted, i've only been listening to the radio and haven't been around here much). the guy is a beane-type player, which is what this team has sorely lacked. right now, despite his contract, he's undervalued as a leadoff man because his average isn't over .300. but his OBP is near .400 and that's the important thing.

 

hendry got a moneyballa'.

 

Fixed.

[treebird]

Let's play GM for a minute. If you are the Reds' GM, what would you have asked the Cubs for in exchange for Dunn?

 

I've read in a couple places that the A's gm (Billy Beane) called up the Reds gm (Dan O’Brien) and asked about the availability of Adam Dunn. O'Brien said that unless the name Rich Harden was going to come up, they had nothing to discuss. That was the end of that.

 

O'Brien apparently doesn't like being a gm or something, because if he thinks the best strategy is to make insane trade offers to other teams and then do nothing, he's going to struggle.

 

I don't understand why that is an insane offer. People are saying how great Dunn is and then expect the Reds to only ask for peanuts for Dunn. He should be the cornerstone of that team and the Reds should expect rightful compensation for a player like him.

 

Rich Harden

 

Would you trade Z for Dunn? Would the Reds be sane in expecting Zambrano in return for Dunn? If they don't want to trade Dunn, they're doing a really good job of it.

[YearofDaCubs]

If I was the GM of the Reds the last person I would get rid of would be Dunn, but I would trade either Pena or Kearns though since I feel like there is no way they get rid of Griffey's contract.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Let's play GM for a minute. If you are the Reds' GM, what would you have asked the Cubs for in exchange for Dunn?

 

I've read in a couple places that the A's gm (Billy Beane) called up the Reds gm (Dan O’Brien) and asked about the availability of Adam Dunn. O'Brien said that unless the name Rich Harden was going to come up, they had nothing to discuss. That was the end of that.

 

O'Brien apparently doesn't like being a gm or something, because if he thinks the best strategy is to make insane trade offers to other teams and then do nothing, he's going to struggle.

 

I don't understand why that is an insane offer. People are saying how great Dunn is and then expect the Reds to only ask for peanuts for Dunn. He should be the cornerstone of that team and the Reds should expect rightful compensation for a player like him.

 

Rich Harden

 

Would you trade Z for Dunn? Would the Reds be sane in expecting Zambrano in return for Dunn? If they don't want to trade Dunn, they're doing a really good job of it.

 

Huh, I was under the impression that Harden was older than that, like around the same age as Dunn. Still, for a player of Dunn's caliber, I don't think that proposal is too ridiculous. Not as bad as LaMar asking for Z in exchange for Baez at least, although we probably shouldn't use a crazy like LaMar to compare. I wonder what O'Brien was asking for Kearns. Dunn I can understand wanting top dollar, but Kearns would be expendable if it were me.

[Geech]

Let's see what the Winter Meetings hold. If Hendry wants Kearns, he'll figure something out.

 

That doesn't make me feel better.

[Roger Dorn]

im really $ad about thi$ trade jody wa$ my favorite player tied with ronny and now there both going to be gone! matt lawton no thx

 

NOT A $WEET DEAL IN MY BOOK

[Uber]

im really $ad about thi$ trade jody wa$ my favorite player tied with ronny and now there both going to be gone! matt lawton no thx

 

NOT A $WEET DEAL IN MY BOOK

 

!!!!!!!

[CubsWin]

This trade still doesn't change the fact that this is a .500 ballclub because it plays with no sense of urgency.

 

Championship caliber teams do not lay down like dogs and go 3-4 at home against crap teams like Arizona and San Francisco. What a disgrace. If they don't win at least eight of the next 10 this close to being a waste of a season is over.

 

Show us you have some heart boys.

The Cubs have been showing a lot of heart lately by winning several games in their last at bat. If you haven't been shown that its because you haven't been paying attention.

 

As far as your claim that "Championship caliber teams do not lay down like dogs and go 3-4 at against crap teams" all you have to do is look at the Boston Red Sox last season to see that yes, in fact, they do. From May 9-12, the Red Sox lost to KC and dropped 2 of 3 to Cleveland at home. They lost 2 of 3 to Baltimore (who last season were a crap team) in Fenway on July 21-22, and they lost 2 of 3 to the White Sox (who last year were also a crap team) in Fenway on August 13-15 in the heat of the pennant chase. How about the Florida Marlins of '03? The Marlins were swept by San Fransisco at home May 6-8. They lost 3 of 4 at home May 29-June 1 to Montreal and Cincinnati, not exactly the cream of the crop. They lost 2 of 3 at home to a crap team like the Cubs (who entered the series under .500) on July 18-20. So, yes, in fact it does happen.

 

Oh, by the way, the crappy Arizona D-Backs are in 1st place.

 

Look, I know I'm spinning things in an effort to defend the Cubs honor. But so too are you spinning them to smear the Cubs honor. The fact remains that all teams, championship caliber or otherwise, have ups and downs. I think the prudent thing to do is not make too much of either. The Cubs haven't been that impressive to date. But the season isn't over and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that the addition of Lawton and the return of Nomar can make quite a difference in this team's ability to win baseball games going forward.

 

As far as having heart is concerned, you need look no further than their performance against the Cardinals in St. Louis last week and their subsequent late-inning heroics against the Giants and Arizona. They might not be playing their best ball right now, but no one can build a solid case showing that they aren't playing with a lot of heart.

[CubsWin]

I'm having a hard time deciding on what I want the Cubs to do concerning next year's OF.

 

Burnitz has an option for next year, Patterson, Lawton, and Murton.

 

That is a bland group all the way around, Murton is intriguing b/c of his low salary, Patterson is a huge "?", Burnitz and Lawton are probably avg-below avg. corner OF'ers.

True, but only one of them is an above average lead-off hitter. :wink:

 

I think the Cubs are counting on Corey returning to play CF next year. If Corey can mount a successful comeback, the Cubs will have "added" a solid bat with good pop and an above average defensive CFer. Lawton could be retained to lead-off and play one of the corner positions. Murton and others could be packaged to get someone better than Burnitz to play RF. However, there are options. The Cubs could sign Johnny Damon (if he'll accept a 3-year deal) to play CF and lead-off. He could move to a corner spot when Pie is ready. If they do, Patterson could then be packaged to obtain an all-star caliber power-hitting OFer, and Murton would be kept to play LF.

 

Burnitz has been solid for the Cubs especially at his '05 price, but doesn't his option pay him 9 mill next year? If so, I'll pass.

 

One of the many problems with the two scenarios above is what all-star caliber, power-hitting OFer could the Cubs acquire by trading either Patterson or Murton along with a bevy of other players? I'm not certain Austin Kearns will ever be that guy. Its possible but there are safer bets out there. Question is, can they be had for what the Cubs have to offer? Looks like its time to start looking for the next salary dump...

[Sarcastic]

I'm having a hard time deciding on what I want the Cubs to do concerning next year's OF.

 

Burnitz has an option for next year, Patterson, Lawton, and Murton.

 

That is a bland group all the way around, Murton is intriguing b/c of his low salary, Patterson is a huge "?", Burnitz and Lawton are probably avg-below avg. corner OF'ers.

True, but only one of them is an above average lead-off hitter. :wink:

 

I think the Cubs are counting on Corey returning to play CF next year. If Corey can mount a successful comeback, the Cubs will have "added" a solid bat with good pop and an above average defensive CFer. Lawton could be retained to lead-off and play one of the corner positions. Murton and others could be packaged to get someone better than Burnitz to play RF. However, there are options. The Cubs could sign Johnny Damon (if he'll accept a 3-year deal) to play CF and lead-off. He could move to a corner spot when Pie is ready. If they do, Patterson could then be packaged to obtain an all-star caliber power-hitting OFer, and Murton would be kept to play LF.

 

Burnitz has been solid for the Cubs especially at his '05 price, but doesn't his option pay him 9 mill next year? If so, I'll pass.

 

One of the many problems with the two scenarios above is what all-star caliber, power-hitting OFer could the Cubs acquire by trading either Patterson or Murton along with a bevy of other players? I'm not certain Austin Kearns will ever be that guy. Its possible but there are safer bets out there. Question is, can they be had for what the Cubs have to offer? Looks like its time to start looking for the next salary dump...

 

I think Burnitz's option for next year is $7 million. That's still probably more than he'll be worth, but who else is there to play RF next year?

[CubsWin]

I'm having a hard time deciding on what I want the Cubs to do concerning next year's OF.

 

Burnitz has an option for next year, Patterson, Lawton, and Murton.

 

That is a bland group all the way around, Murton is intriguing b/c of his low salary, Patterson is a huge "?", Burnitz and Lawton are probably avg-below avg. corner OF'ers.

True, but only one of them is an above average lead-off hitter. :wink:

 

I think the Cubs are counting on Corey returning to play CF next year. If Corey can mount a successful comeback, the Cubs will have "added" a solid bat with good pop and an above average defensive CFer. Lawton could be retained to lead-off and play one of the corner positions. Murton and others could be packaged to get someone better than Burnitz to play RF. However, there are options. The Cubs could sign Johnny Damon (if he'll accept a 3-year deal) to play CF and lead-off. He could move to a corner spot when Pie is ready. If they do, Patterson could then be packaged to obtain an all-star caliber power-hitting OFer, and Murton would be kept to play LF.

 

Burnitz has been solid for the Cubs especially at his '05 price, but doesn't his option pay him 9 mill next year? If so, I'll pass.

 

One of the many problems with the two scenarios above is what all-star caliber, power-hitting OFer could the Cubs acquire by trading either Patterson or Murton along with a bevy of other players? I'm not certain Austin Kearns will ever be that guy. Its possible but there are safer bets out there. Question is, can they be had for what the Cubs have to offer? Looks like its time to start looking for the next salary dump...

 

I think Burnitz's option for next year is $7 million. That's still probably more than he'll be worth, but who else is there to play RF next year?

Yeah, thats the question. Griffey? Giles? Will the Braves trade Andruw Jones? I think an outfield of Lawton, Jones and Patterson wouldn't be too bad given the power at the corner IF positions. But what in the world would it take to get Jones? Would the Phillies ever trade Bobby Abreu? Johnny Damon isn't really a power-hitting OFer, but his OPS this year is way better than Burnitz's.

 

Those are some options, but who knows if any of them are realistic?

[Cubfanintheknow]

I'm having a hard time deciding on what I want the Cubs to do concerning next year's OF.

 

Burnitz has an option for next year, Patterson, Lawton, and Murton.

 

That is a bland group all the way around, Murton is intriguing b/c of his low salary, Patterson is a huge "?", Burnitz and Lawton are probably avg-below avg. corner OF'ers.

 

I think Jeromy Burnitz has fielded his position quite well this season. In fact, I've yet to see him miss the cut-off man, which has been quite refreshing.

[Roast]

im really $ad about thi$ trade jody wa$ my favorite player tied with ronny and now there both going to be gone! matt lawton no thx

 

NOT A $WEET DEAL IN MY BOOK

 

:-s :scratch: