I dont understand why some fans dislike Dusty.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Dusty consistently does not put the team in the best position to win, that's what it comes down to. There's a distinct possibility that whoever replaces Dusty would make many of the same mistakes. However, that doesn't mean he shouldn't be justly criticized.

[ZZ Thorn]

What I don't like about Dusty is that he makes mistakes and decisions that can be second guessed.

 

Unlike say every other manager, whose moves always turn out for the best.

 

And unlike every hitter, who bats 1.000 and succeeds every time if he is only used 'properly.'

 

And unlike every pitcher, who never gives up a run, again only if they are used 'properly.'

 

And unlike every GM, who gets maximum value from every contract and trade.

 

And unlike every peanut vendor, whose tosses hit the hand of every customer.

 

C'mon Z, nobody is expecting perfection...just common sense. Or at least learning from his mistakes.

 

It was total exaggeration (except for the peanut vendors: Wrigley's are second to none), but is there any other position on the field that it's easier to second guess than manager?

 

Some people just love to whine and try and look smarter than the manager. But when whoever replaces Dusty gets hired, it'll be the same stuff different day. Or they'll be whining about some other set of problems...but they'll still be whining.

[samhainn77]

What I don't like about Dusty is that he makes mistakes and decisions that can be second guessed.

 

Unlike say every other manager, whose moves always turn out for the best.

 

And unlike every hitter, who bats 1.000 and succeeds every time if he is only used 'properly.'

 

And unlike every pitcher, who never gives up a run, again only if they are used 'properly.'

 

And unlike every GM, who gets maximum value from every contract and trade.

 

And unlike every peanut vendor, whose tosses hit the hand of every customer.

 

C'mon Z, nobody is expecting perfection...just common sense. Or at least learning from his mistakes.

 

It was total exaggeration (except for the peanut vendors: Wrigley's are second to none), but is there any other position on the field that it's easier to second guess than manager?

 

Some people just love to whine and try and look smarter than the manager. But when whoever replaces Dusty gets hired, it'll be the same stuff different day. Or they'll be whining about some other set of problems...but they'll still be whining.

 

Fair enough, but I'll be happier complaining about the best player in each position not performing like he can than I would be about the same player rotting on the bench while the bench players are taking their starts.

[BigbadB]

What I don't like about Dusty is that he makes mistakes and decisions that can be second guessed.

 

Unlike say every other manager, whose moves always turn out for the best.

 

And unlike every hitter, who bats 1.000 and succeeds every time if he is only used 'properly.'

 

And unlike every pitcher, who never gives up a run, again only if they are used 'properly.'

 

And unlike every GM, who gets maximum value from every contract and trade.

 

And unlike every peanut vendor, whose tosses hit the hand of every customer.

 

C'mon Z, nobody is expecting perfection...just common sense. Or at least learning from his mistakes.

 

It was total exaggeration (except for the peanut vendors: Wrigley's are second to none), but is there any other position on the field that it's easier to second guess than manager?

 

Some people just love to whine and try and look smarter than the manager. But when whoever replaces Dusty gets hired, it'll be the same stuff different day. Or they'll be whining about some other set of problems...but they'll still be whining.

 

And some people will never stop whining about having to listen to people whine. Sometimes, it's kind of cool to NOT have to hear your dissenting opinion in every single thread.

[JC]

What I don't like about Dusty is that he makes mistakes and decisions that can be second guessed.

 

Unlike say every other manager, whose moves always turn out for the best.

 

And unlike every hitter, who bats 1.000 and succeeds every time if he is only used 'properly.'

 

And unlike every pitcher, who never gives up a run, again only if they are used 'properly.'

 

And unlike every GM, who gets maximum value from every contract and trade.

 

And unlike every peanut vendor, whose tosses hit the hand of every customer.

 

C'mon Z, nobody is expecting perfection...just common sense. Or at least learning from his mistakes.

 

It was total exaggeration (except for the peanut vendors: Wrigley's are second to none), but is there any other position on the field that it's easier to second guess than manager?

 

Some people just love to whine and try and look smarter than the manager. But when whoever replaces Dusty gets hired, it'll be the same stuff different day. Or they'll be whining about some other set of problems...but they'll still be whining.

 

And some people will never stop whining about having to listen to people whine. Sometimes, it's kind of cool to NOT have to hear your dissenting opinion in every single thread.

 

Why do Dusty critics have to be characterized as whiners in the first place? Christ, haven't we gotten passed this yet?

[BigbadB]

What I don't like about Dusty is that he makes mistakes and decisions that can be second guessed.

 

Unlike say every other manager, whose moves always turn out for the best.

 

And unlike every hitter, who bats 1.000 and succeeds every time if he is only used 'properly.'

 

And unlike every pitcher, who never gives up a run, again only if they are used 'properly.'

 

And unlike every GM, who gets maximum value from every contract and trade.

 

And unlike every peanut vendor, whose tosses hit the hand of every customer.

 

C'mon Z, nobody is expecting perfection...just common sense. Or at least learning from his mistakes.

 

It was total exaggeration (except for the peanut vendors: Wrigley's are second to none), but is there any other position on the field that it's easier to second guess than manager?

 

Some people just love to whine and try and look smarter than the manager. But when whoever replaces Dusty gets hired, it'll be the same stuff different day. Or they'll be whining about some other set of problems...but they'll still be whining.

 

And some people will never stop whining about having to listen to people whine. Sometimes, it's kind of cool to NOT have to hear your dissenting opinion in every single thread.

 

Why do Dusty critics have to be characterized as whiners in the first place? Christ, haven't we gotten passed this yet?

 

Exactly. Technically, if these guys were never critiqued, the current oldest living former Cub manager should still be at the helm because no one was ever there to second guess him, and he always made the right decisions, even though he never got us to the playoffs.

[ZZ Thorn]

What I don't like about Dusty is that he makes mistakes and decisions that can be second guessed.

 

Unlike say every other manager, whose moves always turn out for the best.

 

And unlike every hitter, who bats 1.000 and succeeds every time if he is only used 'properly.'

 

And unlike every pitcher, who never gives up a run, again only if they are used 'properly.'

 

And unlike every GM, who gets maximum value from every contract and trade.

 

And unlike every peanut vendor, whose tosses hit the hand of every customer.

 

C'mon Z, nobody is expecting perfection...just common sense. Or at least learning from his mistakes.

 

It was total exaggeration (except for the peanut vendors: Wrigley's are second to none), but is there any other position on the field that it's easier to second guess than manager?

 

Some people just love to whine and try and look smarter than the manager. But when whoever replaces Dusty gets hired, it'll be the same stuff different day. Or they'll be whining about some other set of problems...but they'll still be whining.

 

And some people will never stop whining about having to listen to people whine. Sometimes, it's kind of cool to NOT have to hear your dissenting opinion in every single thread.

 

Not much work to do today.

[samhainn77]

I look forward to this lineup:

 

Macias CF --He was awesome against the Giants, dude!

Neifi SS --Speed guy, earned his playing time over Nomar

Lee 1B --MVP

Burnitz RF --Lefty!

Ramirez 3B --Now that I've let Macias spell him the last 3 games..Righty!

Walker 2B --That high OBP or whatever they call it will be money for holla

Hollandsworth LF -- 0 for his last 76, he's like due man, plus...LEFTY!

Blanco C --97 out today...no way Barret can hold up.

 

 

Hey look at the bright side, we have a bench of Nomar, Hairston, Gerut, Murton, Barret, Cedeno...we may be able to squeak our first run across in the late innings.

Edited July 28, 2005 by samhainn77

[ZZ Thorn]

What I don't like about Dusty is that he makes mistakes and decisions that can be second guessed.

 

Unlike say every other manager, whose moves always turn out for the best.

 

And unlike every hitter, who bats 1.000 and succeeds every time if he is only used 'properly.'

 

And unlike every pitcher, who never gives up a run, again only if they are used 'properly.'

 

And unlike every GM, who gets maximum value from every contract and trade.

 

And unlike every peanut vendor, whose tosses hit the hand of every customer.

 

C'mon Z, nobody is expecting perfection...just common sense. Or at least learning from his mistakes.

 

It was total exaggeration (except for the peanut vendors: Wrigley's are second to none), but is there any other position on the field that it's easier to second guess than manager?

 

Some people just love to whine and try and look smarter than the manager. But when whoever replaces Dusty gets hired, it'll be the same stuff different day. Or they'll be whining about some other set of problems...but they'll still be whining.

 

And some people will never stop whining about having to listen to people whine. Sometimes, it's kind of cool to NOT have to hear your dissenting opinion in every single thread.

 

Why do Dusty critics have to be characterized as whiners in the first place? Christ, haven't we gotten passed this yet?

 

I'm not calling you a whiner, but that reads like textbook whining. :wink:

[burnt out cubbie fan]

I look forward to this lineup:

 

Macias CF --He was awesome against the Giants, dude!

Neifi SS --Speed guy, earned his playing time over Nomar

Lee 1B --MVP

Burnitz RF --Lefty!

Ramirez 3B --Now that I've let Macias spell him the last 3 games..Righty!

Walker 2B --That high OBP or whatever they call it will be money for holla

Hollandsworth LF -- 0 for his last 76, he's like due man, plus...LEFTY!

Blanco C --97 out today...no way Barret can hold up.

 

 

Hey look at the bright side, we have a bench of Nomar, Hairston, Gerut, Murton, Barret, Cedeno...we may be able to squeak our first run across in the late innings.

The sad thing is that I can actually see him putting that lineup out there.

[CubinNY]

 

And some people will never stop whining about having to listen to people whine. Sometimes, it's kind of cool to NOT have to hear your dissenting opinion in every single thread.

 

It is becuase every internet message board needs it's own troll. He trolls this board all the time. All one has to do is look up ZZ Thorn's posting history. Pick a topic and he will take the opposite opinion of most everyone else and at the same time put his toes to the line of taboo, but not corss it, becuase he likes to argue. If people would ignore his inane contrary opinons he would stop posting all together. He should just change his screen name to Devil's advocate becuase IMO he doesn't even believe half the nonsense he posts.

[Chocolate Milk]

Someone called into the Score and told me that I don't like Dusty because I'm a racist.

[ZZ Thorn]

 

And some people will never stop whining about having to listen to people whine. Sometimes, it's kind of cool to NOT have to hear your dissenting opinion in every single thread.

 

It is becuase every internet message board needs it's own troll. He trolls this board all the time. All one has to do is look up ZZ Thorn's posting history. Pick a topic and he will take the opposite opinion of most everyone else and at the same time put his toes to the line of taboo, but not corss it, becuase he likes to argue. If people would ignore his inane contrary opinons he would stop posting all together. He should just change his screen name to Devil's advocate becuase IMO he doesn't even believe half the nonsense he posts.

 

Name one.

 

I can't help it if I don't have the same opinions as everyone else, or rather I'm not going to help it.

[imb]

Yeah, this should be a real fun thread.

[ChiblueTNT]

Ill gladly be called a whiner if it gets a decent manager in there. Dusty sucks.

[gus_dog]

Exactly. Technically, if these guys were never critiqued, the current oldest living former Cub manager should still be at the helm because no one was ever there to second guess him, and he always made the right decisions, even though he never got us to the playoffs.

 

I wonder...., whom that would be?

 

Herm Franks?

 

Dallas Green?

 

Anyone got any idea?

[JC]

Exactly. Technically, if these guys were never critiqued, the current oldest living former Cub manager should still be at the helm because no one was ever there to second guess him, and he always made the right decisions, even though he never got us to the playoffs.

 

I wonder...., whom that would be?

 

Herm Franks?

 

Dallas Green?

 

Anyone got any idea?

 

How old is Zim?

 

EDIT: Forget it. I was going by age, not tenure.

Edited July 28, 2005 by JC

[burnt out cubbie fan]

This thread went to a whole new level. I like it.

[gus_dog]

OK, here's a list of all the living former Cub managers. Take your pick.

DOB	Last name	First name	Years	From-to	Games	Won	Lost	Pct.
1/4/1914	Franks	Herman	3	1977-1979	479	238	241	0.497
7/19/1916	Cavarretta	Phil	3	1951-1953	384	169	213	0.442
4/28/1919	Metro	Charlie	1	1962-1962	112	43	69	0.384
4/22/1923	Gomez	Preston	1	1980-1980	90	38	52	0.422
7/25/1926	Lockman	Whitey	3	1972-1974	319	157	162	0.492
4/24/1927	Lucchesi	Frank	1	1987-1987	25	8	17	0.32
5/21/1927	Tappe	El	2	1961-1962	117	46	70	0.397
1/17/1931	Zimmer	Don	4	1988-1991	524	265	258	0.507
5/25/1931	Marshall	Jim	3	1974-1976	393	175	218	0.445
5/26/1931	Frey	Jim	3	1984-1986	379	196	182	0.519
5/26/1932	Altobelli	Joe	1	1991-1991	1	0	1	0
1/23/1934	Amalfitano	Joey	3	1979-1981	185	66	116	0.363
7/16/1937	Elia	Lee	2	1982-1983	285	127	158	0.446
6/2/1938	Michael	Gene	2	1986-1987	238	114	124	0.479
1/7/1942	Lefebvre	Jim	2	1992-1993	324	162	162	0.5
5/4/1945	Lachemann	Rene	1	2002-2002	1	0	1	0
7/31/1947	Vukovich	John	1	1986-1986	2	1	1	0.5
1/27/1948	Trebelhorn	Tom	1	1994-1994	113	49	64	0.434
6/15/1949	Baker	Dusty	2	2003-2004	324	177	147	0.546
6/28/1949	Baylor	Don	3	2000-2002	407	187	220	0.459
1/2/1951	Essian	Jim	1	1991-1991	122	59	63	0.484
6/29/1951	Kimm	Bruce	1	2002-2002	78	33	45	0.423
11/9/1952	Riggleman	Jim	5	1995-1999	794	374	419	0.472

 

So, Franks is the oldest, and Riggs has the most tenure

[GaryWoods]

OK, here's a list of all the living former Cub managers. Take your pick.

DOB	Last name	First name	Years	From-to	Games	Won	Lost	Pct.
5/21/1927	Tappe	El	2	1961-1962	117	46	70	0.397

 

Where did your list come from? El Tappe has been dead for several years.

 

 

Phil Cavaretta debuted in 1951 and is still living; so based on the implied meaning of "oldest manager" in the context of this discussion, he'd be the manager today if there were no second guessing.

Edited July 28, 2005 by GaryWoods

[gus_dog]

Where did your list come from? El Tappe has been dead for several years.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/

 

 

Thanks - it does not list a date of death in that web-site.

[GaryWoods]

Where did your list come from? El Tappe has been dead for several years.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/

 

 

Thanks - it does not list a date of death in that web-site.

 

I also noticed that BR didn't list a date of death. I knew he had passed because I was working at a radio station at the time and reading obituaries was one of my responsibilities.

[fiver]

the short answer is that some people will always criticize those above them (fav team's manager, GM, boss at work, etc.) because in their mind, criticism is a sign of intelligence...and they want everyone (especially everyone on the internet) to know how smart they are, especially in comparison to the manager/GM/boss/president, etc.

 

it's like those kids movies where all the adults ignore the kid and the kid ends up solving the crime all by himself, winning adoration and respect from those dumb-dumb grown ups!

 

heheh...ah yes, I had almost forgotten about those Hardy Boys.

[sonicdethmonkey0]

there is no doubt in my mind after reading this thread that zz thorn is, in fact, dusty baker

[ZZ Thorn]

there is no doubt in my mind after reading this thread that zz thorn is, in fact, dusty baker

 

LOL! Don't make me laugh dude, I'm trying to manage a game. "Holla, how's the arm feel? You're setting up for Dempster today!"