Good Article on Pie

[E.J.]

There's a good article on Felix in the Trib this morning.

 

Chicago Sports

 

West Tenn's coach Bobby Dickerson seems to really love Pie.

 

I still don't want to see him on the big team this year though. I'm really afraid Hendry is thinking about it. I hope he comes to his senses.

 

Some good quotes:

 

"He's an exciting player, a really exciting player," said West Tenn manager Bobby Dickerson, who served as a coach in the World team's 4-0 victory over prospects from the United States. "He loves to win. That's the biggest thing I've seen. He really enjoys winning ballgames, and he always wins. Every team he's been on has made the playoffs and three won championships."

 

Dickerson called Pie an "unselfish, talented player." He was hitting .304 with 11 homers at West Tenn and should be good to go early in the second half of the season.

 

"Everybody who plays the game wants to win, but he thrives on it," Dickerson said. "A lot of players go 0-for-4, their team wins and there's not really any jubilation. He's the type of guy that he goes 0-for-4, the team wins and he's happy. I remember one time this year we had won six in a row. He's walking off the field going, 'My team! My team! My team is great!' He just enjoys being part of something special, and it [becomes contagious] around him."

 

Cubs general manager Jim Hendry has compared Pie to Kenny Lofton, saying he sees him as a leadoff man who will hit 10 to 20 home runs a season. Dickerson said Pie has enough power to be a 30-homer hitter but swings for homers only when the situation dictates.

 

Dickerson cited a game-winning, 12th-inning home run when Pie called his shot in the dugout. The West Tenn manager also gushed about Pie's fielding in center.

 

"We were playing Tennessee, which is the Diamondbacks organization," Dickerson said. "They had some rovers there and some coaches I know. He took away four potential doubles that night, going way over to the gaps and back to the wall. It was an amazing game.

 

"The next day those guys were asking me how he could get to those balls. Well, there was a fifth one in the game he had a shot to get, went way over to right field and almost got, and when he came back to the dugout he was really, genuinely mad that he didn't get it. Most guys would think they gave it a good try, what the heck? But he was mad. He really takes pride in himself and in his defense."

[Roast]

*swoon*

[badger1679666666]

I have a strong premonition he's coming up this year.

[JC]

I have a strong premonition he's coming up this year.

 

I don't know that you need to be clairavoyant, seeing how nearly every news outlet has reported Pie would've been at Wrigley already but for his injury. Unless he is still hurting, he will certainly be a September call up.

[Buford T Justice]

If Hairston is dealt thats when he'll come up I bet.

[hawkeyecub]

Unless he is still hurting, he will certainly be a September call up.

 

I don't think I would have a problem with that. Once the Jaxx season is over if they wanted to call him up to be a pinch runner and get the occasional spot start, it could be good for him.

 

I really hope they let him finish his season at West Tenn. though.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

Unless he is still hurting, he will certainly be a September call up.

 

I don't think I would have a problem with that. Once the Jaxx season is over if they wanted to call him up to be a pinch runner and get the occasional spot start, it could be good for him.

 

I really hope they let him finish his season at West Tenn. though.

Agreed, I don't know if their season, plus playoffs, will be over before the end of the regular season though.

[JC]

Unless he is still hurting, he will certainly be a September call up.

 

I don't think I would have a problem with that. Once the Jaxx season is over if they wanted to call him up to be a pinch runner and get the occasional spot start, it could be good for him.

 

I really hope they let him finish his season at West Tenn. though.

 

The Jaxx have games schduled through the first week of September. I don't know what their playoff picture looks like, or what that schedule is.

 

However, I think the Atlanta series has left a significant mark on the Cubs with respect to not being afraid to bring up young players. I suppose we will see whether that mark was written in indelible or disappearing ink after the break.

[dalgreen]

Unless he is still hurting, he will certainly be a September call up.

 

I don't think I would have a problem with that. Once the Jaxx season is over if they wanted to call him up to be a pinch runner and get the occasional spot start, it could be good for him.

 

I really hope they let him finish his season at West Tenn. though.

 

The Jaxx have games schduled through the first week of September. I don't know what their playoff picture looks like, or what that schedule is.

 

However, I think the Atlanta series has left a significant mark on the Cubs with respect to not being afraid to bring up young players. I suppose we will see whether that mark was written in indelible or disappearing ink after the break.

 

This is usually the time I reiterate, I do not want to see Felix Pie in a Chicago Cub uniform until September 2006. Having said that, at least Hendry, unlike Baker, seems to be willing to make corrections to initial mistakes. Too bad it took this long to bring up young position players instead of poor re-treads.

[erik316wttn]

Don't bring him up until at least September. At least he's playing everyday in AA, which is something he won't do under Dusty.

 

Start him next year at AAA, unless he has an otherworldly spring, and call him up if he proves he can handle AAA pitching.

[Jehrico]

Unless he is still hurting, he will certainly be a September call up.

 

I don't think I would have a problem with that. Once the Jaxx season is over if they wanted to call him up to be a pinch runner and get the occasional spot start, it could be good for him.

 

I really hope they let him finish his season at West Tenn. though.

 

If they're going to give him only spot starts, I'd rather they didn't. I'd rather not start his FA clock ticking for that. If they're going to bring him up to play him every day and have a solid idea of what they have going into next year, then that is a different story.

[RyCubsFan]

My favorite quotes were the ones about his defense. Dickerson cited a game where Pie robbed the opposing team of 4 gappers. When he didn't get to a 5th, Pie was upset. Amazing!

 

I also love the attitude that Pie seems to have. He seems to have such a positive, infectious attitude...intent on winning.

 

We're going to really enjoy Felix in Chicago.

[ZZ Thorn]

While CP and Pie have similar situations, the type of player and person they are seems to be very different. Pie isn't 'going against type' - he's not trying to be a little man playing a big man's game. And coaches have constantly raved about Pie's coachability - a trait we know Patterson didn't have.

 

So while I wish Pie would get more time in the minors, I'm not all that worried that he'll turn into another CP debacle. I predict he'll be far more flexible and adaptable.

 

With Kotsay gone, I don't think there's an CF/leadoff hitter that's that big an upgrade over Pie. Even Hairston. I also think Pie is the type of blue chip prospect that Dusty plays, unless Pie proves to be totally overmatched.

[badger1679666666]

I have a strong premonition he's coming up this year.

 

I don't know that you need to be clairavoyant, seeing how nearly every news outlet has reported Pie would've been at Wrigley already but for his injury. Unless he is still hurting, he will certainly be a September call up.

 

I guess I meant, I have a strong feeling he'll be up BEFORE the September call ups.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Unless he is still hurting, he will certainly be a September call up.

 

I don't think I would have a problem with that. Once the Jaxx season is over if they wanted to call him up to be a pinch runner and get the occasional spot start, it could be good for him.

 

I really hope they let him finish his season at West Tenn. though.

Agreed, I don't know if their season, plus playoffs, will be over before the end of the regular season though.

 

It should be.

 

I don't want to see Felix in the big leagues (I'm indifferent to Sept. call-ups) till midseason 2006.

[Jon]

While CP and Pie have similar situations, the type of player and person they are seems to be very different. Pie isn't 'going against type' - he's not trying to be a little man playing a big man's game. And coaches have constantly raved about Pie's coachability - a trait we know Patterson didn't have.

 

So while I wish Pie would get more time in the minors, I'm not all that worried that he'll turn into another CP debacle. I predict he'll be far more flexible and adaptable.

 

With Kotsay gone, I don't think there's an CF/leadoff hitter that's that big an upgrade over Pie. Even Hairston. I also think Pie is the type of blue chip prospect that Dusty plays, unless Pie proves to be totally overmatched.

I don't really get that. Why does Corey have to be a leadoff hitter simply because he's 5'10'' and fast if that's not where his talen with the bat lies? And I'd like to see where a coach has said that Corey isn't coachable. Gene Clines (1 of 3 active coaches he had at the big league level) said that he's quite coachable as recently as three weeks ago and he worked extra time to convert his batting approach late last season, this offseason, this spring, and this season up until now. Just because something doesn't work out doesn't mean it's because he's stubborn. In my opinion, it's what they were trying to make him that was the problem. Four of five seasons in the majors isn't the best time to all of a sudden turn Patterson into a slappy leadoff hitter.

 

And I don't know if it's realistic to expect Pie to be flexible and adapt IN the big leagues as a leadoff hitter. Pie had 16 walks in 240 ABs this year. He won't just start to take walks in the majors. Vince Coleman has been working very hard with Felix on his base stealing and yet he's just 13 for 22. He won't just start stealing bases effectively in the majors. We might very well see fewer walks and less success on the bases.

 

Unless they call up Pie and he bats .320 or so, he is NOT going to be a decent leadoff option right now.

[imb]

Yeah, Pie is coachable and Corey isn't. Corey's walk rate in the minors was better than Pie's is now. How long will Pie be in the majors before people get sick of him not walking and start calling him uncoachable?

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

And I don't know if it's realistic to expect Pie to be flexible and adapt IN the big leagues as a leadoff hitter. Pie had 16 walks in 240 ABs this year. He won't just start to take walks in the majors. Vince Coleman has been working very hard with Felix on his base stealing and yet he's just 13 for 22. He won't just start stealing bases effectively in the majors. We might very well see fewer walks and less success on the bases.

 

Unless they call up Pie and he bats .320 or so, he is NOT going to be a decent leadoff option right now.

 

Completely agreed.

 

He still needs more seasoning, has to work on the little nuances of the game. Otherwise, he'll be the next Corey.

[ZZ Thorn]

While CP and Pie have similar situations, the type of player and person they are seems to be very different. Pie isn't 'going against type' - he's not trying to be a little man playing a big man's game. And coaches have constantly raved about Pie's coachability - a trait we know Patterson didn't have.

 

So while I wish Pie would get more time in the minors, I'm not all that worried that he'll turn into another CP debacle. I predict he'll be far more flexible and adaptable.

 

With Kotsay gone, I don't think there's an CF/leadoff hitter that's that big an upgrade over Pie. Even Hairston. I also think Pie is the type of blue chip prospect that Dusty plays, unless Pie proves to be totally overmatched.

I don't really get that. Why does Corey have to be a leadoff hitter simply because he's 5'10'' and fast if that's not where his talen with the bat lies? And I'd like to see where a coach has said that Corey isn't coachable. Gene Clines (1 of 3 active coaches he had at the big league level) said that he's quite coachable as recently as three weeks ago and he worked extra time to convert his batting approach late last season, this offseason, this spring, and this season up until now. Just because something doesn't work out doesn't mean it's because he's stubborn. In my opinion, it's what they were trying to make him that was the problem. Four of five seasons in the majors isn't the best time to all of a sudden turn Patterson into a slappy leadoff hitter.

 

When did Corey ever even try to become a slappy leadoff hitter? He's swung from his heels on every pitch for as long as I can remember. This year was the first he really tried to bunt for hits a lot. He's finally talking about shortening his long, loopy sluggers swing. Corey may have worked with the coaches, but in the batter's box he clearly followed his own logic.

 

And I don't know if it's realistic to expect Pie to be flexible and adapt IN the big leagues as a leadoff hitter. Pie had 16 walks in 240 ABs this year. He won't just start to take walks in the majors. Vince Coleman has been working very hard with Felix on his base stealing and yet he's just 13 for 22. He won't just start stealing bases effectively in the majors. We might very well see fewer walks and less success on the bases.

 

Unless they call up Pie and he bats .320 or so, he is NOT going to be a decent leadoff option right now.

 

Pie started playing baseball when he was 14 as I recall. He has to be more coachable than Corey to have gotten this far or to even have a chance to go futher - he can't possibly know as many nuances of the game as Corey did at similar ages. Pie is still learning and has potential - Corey is rapidly getting to be an old dog who can't learn new tricks. I sure hope he makes some serious changes in AAA of course.

 

Pie will take some lumps, I don't doubt that, but there are differences between Corey and Pie that make me think Pie will be more malleable and successful in his first several seasons. Anyway, Pie doesn't have to do very well to improve upon Corey's 'successes' in the leadoff spot.

[rawaction]

Unless he is still hurting, he will certainly be a September call up.

 

I don't think I would have a problem with that. Once the Jaxx season is over if they wanted to call him up to be a pinch runner and get the occasional spot start, it could be good for him.

 

I really hope they let him finish his season at West Tenn. though.

 

The Jaxx have games schduled through the first week of September. I don't know what their playoff picture looks like, or what that schedule is.

 

However, I think the Atlanta series has left a significant mark on the Cubs with respect to not being afraid to bring up young players. I suppose we will see whether that mark was written in indelible or disappearing ink after the break.

 

This is usually the time I reiterate, I do not want to see Felix Pie in a Chicago Cub uniform until September 2006. Having said that, at least Hendry, unlike Baker, seems to be willing to make corrections to initial mistakes. Too bad it took this long to bring up young position players instead of poor re-treads.

 

Why wait if people in the organization can see him performing reasonably well right now? I agree with you that if he's gonna sit every other day like Corey did when he first came up, that he needs to stay in AA.

 

I think people are assuming he won't be effective or that he will be ruined, and there's really no reason to think that. He's not Corey Patterson. A completely different person and player. There's just as good a chance he comes up and has an impact like Miguel Cabrera or Andruw Jones.

[UK1679666180]

It'll be extremely difficult for him to improve his plate discipline with a half season at AA and not having faced the type of pitchers you'll find at AAA.

 

He has the skills to do reasonably well, better than Corey, but it might not ruin him, but it increases the chances of stunting his development.

 

As far as Jones and Cabrera, look at their BB/K rates before being promoted, there's a clear difference between theirs and Pie's.

 

I'd prefer it, if they didn't call him up.

[Jon]

 

When did Corey ever even try to become a slappy leadoff hitter? He's swung from his heels on every pitch for as long as I can remember. This year was the first he really tried to bunt for hits a lot. He's finally talking about shortening his long, loopy sluggers swing. Corey may have worked with the coaches, but in the batter's box he clearly followed his own logic.

His swing is a little bit shorter this year, but what you see on the field is the combination of the coaches trying to get him from the beginning of the year to spray the ball to all fields and focus more on putting the ball in play and his inability/ineffectiveness of becoming that kind of a hitter. Corey will hit for power and he will continue to do so because he's had success with it. It's unrealistic to expect the guy to go from a power/strikeout hitter to an OBP leadoff guy simply because he's short (but not small) and fast. Instead of working with what Corey was already used to doing in the batter's box to lower the strikeouts, the coaches went a step further back and tried to change both plate discipline and his swing at the same time. That's just too much. Couple that with the struggles that Patterson has had in just picking up the ball and you have what we've seen from April through June.

 

As for the bunting, he tried bunting more often last year, but he wasn't getting them down/beating them out at a rate that would make it a useful weapon. He started to push them down the first base line again recently, but he still has a lot of work to do on that before he becomes an effective bunter.

 

If the Cubs wanted to mold Corey into a leadoff hitter, they should have done so in the minors. If you take every player with the ceiling Corey has/had and four or five years of big league experience and try to turn them from one type of hitter to another, you're not going to have the success that you'd want.

 

Pie started playing baseball when he was 14 as I recall. He has to be more coachable than Corey to have gotten this far or to even have a chance to go futher - he can't possibly know as many nuances of the game as Corey did at similar ages. Pie is still learning and has potential - Corey is rapidly getting to be an old dog who can't learn new tricks. I sure hope he makes some serious changes in AAA of course.

 

Pie will take some lumps, I don't doubt that, but there are differences between Corey and Pie that make me think Pie will be more malleable and successful in his first several seasons. Anyway, Pie doesn't have to do very well to improve upon Corey's 'successes' in the leadoff spot.

Why bother insulting Corey's ability when talking about Pie? I wasn't saying that Felix doesn't have what you say he has, but to continue to say that Patterson isn't coachable still makes no sense to me.

 

Why wait if people in the organization can see him performing reasonably well right now? I agree with you that if he's gonna sit every other day like Corey did when he first came up, that he needs to stay in AA.

 

I think people are assuming he won't be effective or that he will be ruined, and there's really no reason to think that. He's not Corey Patterson. A completely different person and player. There's just as good a chance he comes up and has an impact like Miguel Cabrera or Andruw Jones.

After Corey wasn't given the full opportunity to improve on plate discipline in the minors, I don't see why the same organization would put Felix on that same path. He may very well succeed, but at 20 years of age and where he currently is as a player, I don't see that as a risk worth taking.

 

It also doesn't make a whole lot of sense for the big league club considering the OBP that Hairston is putting up in the leadoff spot or the OBP that Greenberg could put up.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Pie started playing baseball when he was 14 as I recall. He has to be more coachable than Corey to have gotten this far or to even have a chance to go futher - he can't possibly know as many nuances of the game as Corey did at similar ages. Pie is still learning and has potential - Corey is rapidly getting to be an old dog who can't learn new tricks. I sure hope he makes some serious changes in AAA of course.

 

That's not necessarily true. Corey didn't concentrate exclusively on baseball until his senior year in HS (he was a highly thought of football player too). You can't know that Corey knew more nuances at age 20 than Corey, especially given that Felix at age 20 has made full-season stops at Mesa, Lansing and Daytona and a half season at West Tenn, while Corey got a year at Lansing and 2/3 of a year at West Tenn.

 

And Corey sure changed his swing this offseason (which has resulted in some of his added problems this season) - I really don't know why you say he's an old dog who can't learn new tricks.

[Brian]

Is there anywhere to see Tejada's minor league numbers. Becuase I just read moneyball and when Beane callled Tejada "MR. Swings at Everything" I kind of wanted to compare him to what I've been hearing about Felix. Especially considering he called him that during the 2002 season when he was the AL MVP. Than I kind of fell backed to Earth when I realized "Mr. Swings at Everything" to Billy Beane could be a bit exagerated.

 

But anyways is there any comparison between Tejada & Pie. If Pie comes close to Tejada that wold be awesome.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Is there anywhere to see Tejada's minor league numbers. Becuase I just read moneyball and when Beane callled Tejada "MR. Swings at Everything" I kind of wanted to compare him to what I've been hearing about Felix. Especially considering he called him that during the 2002 season when he was the AL MVP. Than I kind of fell backed to Earth when I realized "Mr. Swings at Everything" to Billy Beane could be a bit exagerated.

 

But anyways is there any comparison between Tejada & Pie. If Pie comes close to Tejada that wold be awesome.

 

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