Winter Meetings Thread

[Rcal10]

7 hours ago, muntjack said:

It's always been about Cabrera for me.  I'd be happy with Gore, Ryan or Lopez but I think Cabrera is on the verge of a big leap and I'd love for the Cubs to get those prime years. 

I like Cabrera as well. He actually has 3 years of control, which I also like. 

[thawv]

19 hours ago, Tryptamine said:

He literally said the rotation had to be addressed

He says crap every off season and does nothing.  Unless they sign Amai, Framber, or Suarez, it hasn't been addressed.  Maybe King is an upgrade, but after that, there's nothing that I would consider an upgrade for the money. 

[thawv]

18 hours ago, Cuzi said:

Yet we know for a fact our GM, isn't willing to do what it takes to get a player he "really likes" in a year he's going all in to save his job.

His job is safe no matter what.  He's done nothing so far and got an extension.  This alone speaks volumes.  He's doing exactly what Tom wants.  Winning is not important to Tom.  Money is. 

[Jason Ross]

7 minutes ago, thawv said:

He says crap every off season and does nothing.  Unless they sign Amai, Framber, or Suarez, it hasn't been addressed.  Maybe King is an upgrade, but after that, there's nothing that I would consider an upgrade for the money. 

Does he? 

Now, you may not always like what his activity is but he says he's going to do things, and then does them. The Cubs won 92 games last year. He brought in two players who made all-star appearances for the team in a single off-season. We can debate about the Cubs willingness to extend Kyle Tucker, but we can't debate that the Cubs brought in two very useful pieces last year.

The Cubs have pretty active off-seasons. In fact, they have pretty successful offseasons. They rarely make a mistake, and while they do come up probably a player short, the last three years have been win totals of 83. 83, and 92. They've won a playoff series last year and were one game away from an appearance in the NLCS. 

I won't sit here and say everything Hoyer does is perfect (it's not) but the gripes of "he doesn't do anything" are just unfounded, too. 

[thawv]

5 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

Does he? 

Now, you may not always like what his activity is but he says he's going to do things, and then does them. The Cubs won 92 games last year. He brought in two players who made all-star appearances for the team in a single off-season. We can debate about the Cubs willingness to extend Kyle Tucker, but we can't debate that the Cubs brought in two very useful pieces last year.

The Cubs have pretty active off-seasons. In fact, they have pretty successful offseasons. They rarely make a mistake, and while they do come up probably a player short, the last three years have been win totals of 83. 83, and 92. They've won a playoff series last year and were one game away from an appearance in the NLCS. 

I won't sit here and say everything Hoyer does is perfect (it's not) but the gripes of "he doesn't do anything" are just unfounded, too. 

I'm not a fan of him.  Maybe the Royals or Pirates, etc would love him, but I don't.  Most Cubs fans that I talk to don't like him either.  He's weak and spineless.  Sorry. 

[Jason Ross]

Just now, thawv said:

I'm not a fan of him.  Maybe the Royals or Pirates, etc would love him, but I don't.  Most Cubs fans that I talk to don't like him either.  He's weak and spineless.  Sorry. 

Fine, but let's be clear here; I didn't ask you if you liked Jed Hoyer. What I did was question your assertion that Jed Hoyer "says crap every off season and does nothing". It's pretty blatantly untrue. Again, you may not like Jed Hoyer, whatever, but that doesn't mean we get to just create a story to support it. 

Fact is, Jed Hoyer promises active offseasons and delivers on them. You might want to say that part of this is a self-perpetuating-truth, that because the Cubs don't sign players to lengthy contracts, that the Cubs have to be active - but that doesn't change that the Cubs and Hoyer kind of live by the words they say. 

And another fact is this; the Cubs generally do well in the off-season. They don't sign the big-free-agent, and that's a knock I think we all have with Hoyer, but they almost always do a good job in talent acquisition. We can not like Jed Hoyer all we want, but the 2025 team was almost entirely built by him and they won 92-games, a playoff series and were a game away from the NLCS. To act like that's nothing feels weird. And part of that 92-win-team was what the Cubs did last offseason. 

If you don't like Jed Hoyer; so be it (for the record, I'm pretty neutral on him). But let's also be real about what he says, and what he does. Jed Hoyer has made it clear over and over again that the rotation is a sticking point, and that strrikeouts in general are a thing they need to add. I don't know who they'll sign or trade for the rotation, and it might not be everyone's top-of-the-wishlist, but I'll say this; I'm confident that the Cubs will get a starting pitcher and based on their history, the starting pitcher will probably turn out just fine. 

[Rcal10]

19 minutes ago, thawv said:

He says crap every off season and does nothing.  Unless they sign Amai, Framber, or Suarez, it hasn't been addressed.  Maybe King is an upgrade, but after that, there's nothing that I would consider an upgrade for the money. 

In free agency, I agree that after King there isn’t an upgrade for the staff. There might be a few 3’s or 4’s in a rotation (Giolitto, as 1 example), but that really isn’t what they should be aiming for. The aim should be higher. But there is a trade route too. And there, he can find a few guys. 

[CubinNY]

14 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

Does he? 

Now, you may not always like what his activity is but he says he's going to do things, and then does them. The Cubs won 92 games last year. He brought in two players who made all-star appearances for the team in a single off-season. We can debate about the Cubs willingness to extend Kyle Tucker, but we can't debate that the Cubs brought in two very useful pieces last year.

The Cubs have pretty active off-seasons. In fact, they have pretty successful offseasons. They rarely make a mistake, and while they do come up probably a player short, the last three years have been win totals of 83. 83, and 92. They've won a playoff series last year and were one game away from an appearance in the NLCS. 

I won't sit here and say everything Hoyer does is perfect (it's not) but the gripes of "he doesn't do anything" are just unfounded, too. 

Jesus Christ. This is awful. I mean it stinks like horsefeathers after a hard night of drinking warm Busch Ice. Jed has not been successful by any metric you want to throw out there. It's always changing. to fit whatever narrative you want. Now it's all-star games? Give me a horsefeathers break. They shoot for 90; they've made it once during his tenure. He's awful, the Ricketts are awful, and no matter how much lipstick you want to put on it, it's an ugly ass, I don't know, think of the ugliest animal you can think of—my God. 

[Jason Ross]

1 minute ago, Rcal10 said:

In free agency, I agree that after King there isn’t an upgrade for the staff. There might be a few 3’s or 4’s in a rotation (Giolitto, as 1 example), but that really isn’t what they should be aiming for. The aim should be higher. But there is a trade route too. And there, he can find a few guys. 

I think we're forgetting how good Michael King is when he's healthy. From 2023-2024 when he was healthy, here is how he ranked among SP's:
K% - 10th
ERA - 4th
FIP - 10th
xFIP - 13th
fWAR - 25
barrel% - 11th
hardhit% - 2nd
 

Yes, 2025 was an unhealth season, and yes, I'd like to be a little more sure that the 2023-2024 version of Michael King was coming back for sure. But let's also not act like this dude doesn't upgrade every rotation in baseball if he's healthy, because over the two years prior to 2025, he was inarguably a top-15 pitcher in baseball.

[Rcal10]

10 minutes ago, thawv said:

I'm not a fan of him.  Maybe the Royals or Pirates, etc would love him, but I don't.  Most Cubs fans that I talk to don't like him either.  He's weak and spineless.  Sorry. 

If the group of Cubs fans you talk to are like mine, men in there 60’s, simple truth is that group of people don’t like anything. Their stance on pretty much everything is negative. They also still view baseball through the eyes of how it used to be played in the 80’s. I know. I have a lot of those same friends. While not everything the FO has done is great, Jed is probably a top 10 POBO in baseball. And he is exactly the type of leader Tom wants. It is perfectly fine not liking Jed. But using your friend base as validation for your opinion does nothing to make you case. Again, I know this through personal experience. 

[CubinNY]

I mean, did they not go after Otani and a bunch of other people that they wouldn’t pony up the money for I mean, I don’t know why I have a visceral reaction to that post but I do it’s just so horsefeathers incredibly naïve and stupid and a historical

[Rcal10]

3 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

I think we're forgetting how good Michael King is when he's healthy. From 2023-2024 when he was healthy, here is how he ranked among SP's:
K% - 10th
ERA - 4th
FIP - 10th
xFIP - 13th
fWAR - 25
barrel% - 11th
hardhit% - 2nd
 

Yes, 2025 was an unhealth season, and yes, I'd like to be a little more sure that the 2023-2024 version of Michael King was coming back for sure. But let's also not act like this dude doesn't upgrade every rotation in baseball if he's healthy, because over the two years prior to 2025, he was inarguably a top-15 pitcher in baseball.

Did you mean to quote me? Or did you misread my comment or maybe I said something confusing. I said AFTER King there isn’t anyone worth going after. Thawv had Valdez, Suarez and Imai and said “maybe” King. My post was meant to suggest King is definitely an upgrade but after him and the 3 guys Thawv mentioned, I agreed no one else is a upgrade over what they have. 

[thawv]

4 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

If the group of Cubs fans you talk to are like mine, men in there 60’s, simple truth is that group of people don’t like anything. Their stance on pretty much everything is negative. They also still view baseball through the eyes of how it used to be played in the 80’s. I know. I have a lot of those same friends. While not everything the FO has done is great, Jed is probably a top 10 POBO in baseball. And he is exactly the type of leader Tom wants. It is perfectly fine not liking Jed. But using your friend base as validation for your opinion does nothing to make you case. Again, I know this through personal experience. 

Awesome post, bud!  But honestly, friends my age are not really baseball fans.  I talk most of my baseball with guys in their mid to late 40's.  But you are correct about our age group in general.  

 

If I was Tom, Jed would be around for as long as I own the team as winning is just not important, and he has the perfect guy in charge to toe the line.  And if by chance Jed left, or got fired, his replacement would be exactly like Jed.  Tom is not going to ever hire some aggressive president that's putting winning first.  It all starts with the owner.   

[CubinNY]

He never gets his horsefeathers man he settles for whoever will take the least amount of money

[Jason Ross]

5 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Did you mean to quote me? Or did you misread my comment or maybe I said something confusing. I said AFTER King there isn’t anyone worth going after. Thawv had Valdez, Suarez and Imai and said “maybe” King. My post was meant to suggest King is definitely an upgrade but after him and the 3 guys Thawv mentioned, I agreed no one else is a upgrade over what they have. 

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought your comment was about King. I misread! 

[Rcal10]

Just now, Jason Ross said:

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought your comment was about King. I misread! 

No problem. I thought we were on the same page.😬

[Jason Ross]

14 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

I mean, did they not go after Otani and a bunch of other people that they wouldn’t pony up the money for I mean, I don’t know why I have a visceral reaction to that post but I do it’s just so horsefeathers incredibly naïve and stupid and a historical

Well, here's the issue; the Cubs did pony up for Shohei Ohtani it seems. They offered him a contract that would have structured things out in a way that he would have made more real-world-money by not using deferrals. 

I'm uninterested in playing any game where we create narratives around it in such a way where we are affirming our pre-conceived beliefs (for example "the only reason the Cubs offered that is because they knew he'd never sign it and was always going to the Dodgers". While it may be true, it also is just an assumption made by people with no knowledge, so let's skip on the narratives). 

Regardless, the point is this; the Cubs probably did offer him plenty of money. Ohtani wanted deferrals, the Cubs didn't do it. Why? Not sure.

You say my post is "naive" because I pointed out that the Cubs make a lot of moves every year (they do) and that the Cubs brought in successful MLB players last year (they did) and that the Cubs had a successful year (success is subjective but I think we're jumping the shark when 92-wins and a playoff series win becomes beneath success in any fashion, especially for a team that was not considered an elite one at any point). I would say my post was realistic, finding the middle ground between the consistent whining while also pointing out counter claims (roster turnover, lack of killer ability to get the best players). 

I don't love Jed Hoyer. I don't hate Jed Hoyer. Jed Hoyer is generally fine at what he does, and yet feels flawed as well. He is what he is.  

[Geographyhater8888]

In order of importance from Jed’s perspective: Imai, King, Bregman+trade? 

[Rcal10]

1 minute ago, Geographyhater8888 said:

In order of importance from Jed’s perspective: Imai, King, Bregman+trade? 

I think if you take Bregman’s name out, you are correct. Bregman will not happen, regardless of what they end up with in the rotation. Of course, that is just my opinion, but I don’t see him here🤷.

[Cuzi]

Generally speaking, I don't consider 1 playoff appearance in a division you out spend by at least $60M "fine." But that's just me.

[CubinNY]

8 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

Well, here's the issue; the Cubs did pony up for Shohei Ohtani it seems. They offered him a contract that would have structured things out in a way that he would have made more real-world-money by not using deferrals. 

I'm uninterested in playing any game where we create narratives around it in such a way where we are affirming our pre-conceived beliefs (for example "the only reason the Cubs offered that is because they knew he'd never sign it and was always going to the Dodgers". While it may be true, it also is just an assumption made by people with no knowledge, so let's skip on the narratives). 

Regardless, the point is this; the Cubs probably did offer him plenty of money. Ohtani wanted deferrals, the Cubs didn't do it. Why? Not sure.

You say my post is "naive" because I pointed out that the Cubs make a lot of moves every year (they do) and that the Cubs brought in successful MLB players last year (they did) and that the Cubs had a successful year (success is subjective but I think we're jumping the shark when 92-wins and a playoff series win becomes beneath success in any fashion, especially for a team that was not considered an elite one at any point). I would say my post was realistic, finding the middle ground between the consistent whining while also pointing out counter claims (roster turnover, lack of killer ability to get the best players). 

I don't love Jed Hoyer. I don't hate Jed Hoyer. Jed Hoyer is generally fine at what he does, and yet feels flawed as well. He is what he is.  

So much horsefeathers. Every horsefeathers team makes a lot of moves every year.

Edited December 17, 2025 by CubinNY

[Tryptamine]

Jed is a GM with a strong floor. He'll keep you mostly competitive.  What Jed doesn’t have is the ability to push teams over the top. To know that yeah I'm going to pay a player more than I think he's worth and the last few years of this deal are probably going to suck, but this is my guy and I'm going to land him. Jed is constantly ready to pivot instead of going over his valuation of a player. 

[Geographyhater8888]

15 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

I think if you take Bregman’s name out, you are correct. Bregman will not happen, regardless of what they end up with in the rotation. Of course, that is just my opinion, but I don’t see him here🤷.

It’s not for nothing that Jed’s shown “interest” for 2 winters in a row. If he ends up half punting on all the of the pitchers with no teams willing to match Bregmans years, the plan C i’d think is signing him on Jed’s terms. With the log jammed group of position players, he’ll come up with a package and flip someone for a cheap pitcher. Having a productive right handed bat who mashed away from Fenway won’t hurt short term. Why else is Bregman even a topic? Leverage? 

Edited December 17, 2025 by Geographyhater8888

[CubinNY]

6 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

Jed is a GM with a strong floor. He'll keep you mostly competitive.  What Jed doesn’t have is the ability to push teams over the top. To know that yeah I'm going to pay a player more than I think he's worth and the last few years of this deal are probably going to suck, but this is my guy and I'm going to land him. Jed is constantly ready to pivot instead of going over his valuation of a player. 

They are only competitive because they’re in a division with a bunch of small market teams who are getting advantages that they don’t get. And they refuse to use the one advantage that they have. It’s like the Ricketts have morphed into the Wrigley family and have their lackey Jed to make sure that they appear competitive so they can get the blue hairs to come into Wrigley and spend their money. 

Edited December 17, 2025 by CubinNY

[Geographyhater8888]

11 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

Jed is a GM with a strong floor. He'll keep you mostly competitive.  What Jed doesn’t have is the ability to push teams over the top. To know that yeah I'm going to pay a player more than I think he's worth and the last few years of this deal are probably going to suck, but this is my guy and I'm going to land him. Jed is constantly ready to pivot instead of going over his valuation of a player. 

I just wonder if it’s a chicken an egg thing. Is he operating Toms vision of Reinsdorfs 2000’s Whitesox or Tom simply feels he’s the most qualified for the job and Jed has full autonomy over trades and free agency on a pre approved budget.