Gird Your Loi(o)ns - 11/19 noon on Fox

[BigbadB]

11 hours ago, raw said:

Interesting that Fields only had 23 pass attempts today. Bagent never had fewer than 29, and that was his 1st career start when his team played with a lead all game. They repeatedly let him throw on 3rd and 4th and short last week. 

Pretty clear this staff doesn't trust Fields. Also seemed to be more plays with guys running the same/wrong route or lining up wrong, issues with the C who didn't know when to snap, and maybe even getting the play in with all the late huddle breaks.

Not trying to absolve Fields of blame because maybe he doesn't take charge enough to get guys in the right spot. Maybe he's slow calling the play in huddle. But it seems the offense is more dysfunctional when he's in there for whatever reason.

To me, the difference is the Fields designed runs, combined with Fields taking off running. If Fields throws the ball away or makes short dump offs, his numbers mirror Bagent's in pass attempts.

[BigbadB]

I'm going to have to side with everyone arguing with Kyle about the long pass to Scott. Detroit was clearly waiting for the two runs up the middle on first and second down. They were likely waiting for the 10 yard pass on 3rd down. Everyone is right, it's a low percentage throw, but it was open, Fields saw it, and you have more than just a catch to hope for there. There's also pass interference or holding that can come into play in that scenario. Besides, I can't tell you how many times I've seen the Bears go for the flags in that situation, and the receiver makes the catch a yard or two short of the down markers. 

It wasn't a perfect game for Fields. However, I thought he played like an NFL caliber QB, while still recovering from an injury, sitting multiple games, facing a very tough team that was going to do everything possible to make him unsuccessful, and yet he generated enough points to give this team a chance to win the game. You had to expect a bit of rust, even though we can't allow any more rust or poor decisions. But he generated a great first drive touchdown. The line still managed to find ways to make his life more difficult with false starts, delay of game and holding penalties, while also not doing that great of a job in providing protection.

 

[BigbadB]

I still feel like Fields doesn't trust his OLine, but I can't say I blame him when you consider how many times they have failed him. Detroit has a ferocious attack, and that doesn't help, but what I do want to see more of from Fields before this season is over, and on a consistent basis, is getting comfortable in the pocket and surveying the entire field, trusting his protection and making plays to his entire offense. I feel like he gives up on his protection too soon and he's either off and running or throwing off balance as he avoids defenders much too often where it's basically his main offense. 

I get that one of the goals here is knocking down his sack totals along with reducing turnovers. If he's going to be the guy that leads us to the playoffs year after year, he's going to have to be more of a pocket passer first rather than a bail out too soon and take off running QB.

[gflore34]

Thought the OL played well, if they can remain intact they'll improve. It'll be interesting to see if Fields learned anything from the last game against the Vikings. I'm certain the Vikings, assuming Fields doesn't know how or can't beat a blitz, will come with all sorts of blitzes.  Blitzes that'll leave the field wide open, daring the Bears to take advantage.

Edited November 20, 2023 by gflore34

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The problem with the decision to throw the deep ball on that late third down is that you're increasing the risk (that's a tough catch to make no matter how good the throw is) for no additional reward (the game is over on any first down).   And Moore was open for a much easier throw and catch.

I'm surprised that "3rd down when you're trying to bleed the last two minutes to seal the win is a bad time to take a deep shot" is such a controversial take.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I had no issue with the deep throw, it was there and Fields made a perfect throw - where only Scott could get it. Scott should have had it. The bigger issue is backing yourself into 3rd and long with two dives into the belly of the Detroit D. And then, even though they miss on the deep throw, their shell prevent D is garbage. No blitzes, allowed everything underneath. total shitshow by Eberflus

 

[gflore34]

Also, that Lions LB - 34 - Anzalone was literally headhunting on every Fields' scramble or designed run.  He was targeting often times, right in front of the officials and not a thing was flagged, I don't know why.

[Thurman Merman]

27 minutes ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

The problem with the decision to throw the deep ball on that late third down is that you're increasing the risk (that's a tough catch to make no matter how good the throw is) for no additional reward (the game is over on any first down).   And Moore was open for a much easier throw and catch.

I'm surprised that "3rd down when you're trying to bleed the last two minutes to seal the win is a bad time to take a deep shot" is such a controversial take.

I haven't seen the video, but Biggs said this morning that DJ was the primary read there but he was covered.  I do think that maybe instead of running into a wall at the line twice, maybe you take that shot on second down instead.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

1 minute ago, Thurman Merman said:

I haven't seen the video, but Biggs said this morning that DJ was the primary read there but he was covered.  I do think that maybe instead of running into a wall at the line twice, maybe you take that shot on second down instead.

He was covered by Justin Fields standards, by which I mean there were defensive backs within 5 yards of him.   But a franchise NFL QB hits him and gets the first down 10/10 times 

[gflore34]

Jaylon Johnson needs to STFU about being paid like a top corner in the NFL.  Top corners make that pick-6 Goff offered up 10 out of 10 times, no excuses.

[sneakypower]

11 minutes ago, gflore34 said:

Also, that Lions LB - 34 - Anzalone was literally headhunting on every Fields' scramble or designed run.  He was targeting often times, right in front of the officials and not a thing was flagged, I don't know why.

if a QB wants to ensure their own safety, don't wring every last inch out of your scrambles; it's simply not a reasonable ask to expect defenders to freeze their momentum or teleport around you and refs i think have gotten a bit better at not flagging every improper QB touch as late hit anymore

[gflore34]

9 minutes ago, sneakypower said:

if a QB wants to ensure their own safety, don't wring every last inch out of your scrambles; it's simply not a reasonable ask to expect defenders to freeze their momentum or teleport around you and refs i think have gotten a bit better at not flagging every improper QB touch as late hit anymore

On more than one occasion he came in late, head first, on Fields' slides.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Just now, gflore34 said:

On more than one occasion he came in late, head first, on Fields' slides.

I'll concede that Fields does slide late, however, it doesnt excuse hitting him or leading with the crown of their helmet.

[jersey cubs fan]

20 minutes ago, sneakypower said:

if a QB wants to ensure their own safety, don't wring every last inch out of your scrambles; it's simply not a reasonable ask to expect defenders to freeze their momentum or teleport around you and refs i think have gotten a bit better at not flagging every improper QB touch as late hit anymore

Depends on what type of qb you are 

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I think my biggest takeaway is that this is a great game for showing how poles' vision for the team is doomed.

This is *exactly* why a great running game and a great run defense don't mean jack in the modern NFL 

[gflore34]

46 minutes ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

I think my biggest takeaway is that this is a great game for showing how poles' vision for the team is doomed.

This is *exactly* why a great running game and a great run defense don't mean jack in the modern NFL 

What lost them the game is Eberflus, for some unbeknownst reason, allowing the Lions to make it a one score game in 76 seconds.  Everyone is showering the Lions with praise when the truth is they did nothing special, it was all the Bears giving it to them.

Edited November 20, 2023 by gflore34

[UMFan83]

Lets spare the weekly conversation about how useful PFF grades are, just posting this for those that find value in them

 

[BigSlick]

God, I had to just not listen or think about this game shortly after it ended. Just a completely backbreaking loss that is thankfully snuck into a lost season anyway. 

I also think the discussion focusing on the QB or on this or that decision obscures what should be the bigger stories in the game. Complete coaching ineptness being at the top of the list. The in-game coaching was so dire it doomed what was a for-sure-completely-locked-up-game. Even handing all you can to Goff and co - this isn't a game you should be allowed to lose when you're up 12 with 4 minutes left. It just shouldn't be allowed to happen. Coaches have been fired for less and EBERFLUS HAS LOST GAMES OF THIS CALIBER TWICE THIS SEASON. 

But those PFF grades remind me...what was Braxton Jones pulled for and why was he so mad on the sidelines. Did we ever figure that out? 

[UMFan83]

1 hour ago, BigSlick said:

God, I had to just not listen or think about this game shortly after it ended. Just a completely backbreaking loss that is thankfully snuck into a lost season anyway. 

I also think the discussion focusing on the QB or on this or that decision obscures what should be the bigger stories in the game. Complete coaching ineptness being at the top of the list. The in-game coaching was so dire it doomed what was a for-sure-completely-locked-up-game. Even handing all you can to Goff and co - this isn't a game you should be allowed to lose when you're up 12 with 4 minutes left. It just shouldn't be allowed to happen. Coaches have been fired for less and EBERFLUS HAS LOST GAMES OF THIS CALIBER TWICE THIS SEASON. 

But those PFF grades remind me...what was Braxton Jones pulled for and why was he so mad on the sidelines. Did we ever figure that out? 

That's a good point about losing a game like this twice this year.  How different does the season seem if they are 5-6 right now?  They'd still be under .500, but a game out of the playoffs looking at a fairly light schedule the rest of the way and an upcoming bye week to get healthy.  All that needed to happen was the Bears not blowing a 28-7 late 3rd quarter lead and a 26-14 lead with 4 minutes left.

[gflore34]

19 minutes ago, UMFan83 said:

That's a good point about losing a game like this twice this year.  How different does the season seem if they are 5-6 right now?  They'd still be under .500, but a game out of the playoffs looking at a fairly light schedule the rest of the way and an upcoming bye week to get healthy.  All that needed to happen was the Bears not blowing a 28-7 late 3rd quarter lead and a 26-14 lead with 4 minutes left.

Fields aside without question they've under performed, yes it's not a playoff caliber roster.  But it's also not 3 - 8 bad,
should be 5-6 or 6-5 around .500.  The coaching or lack there of, is this team' biggest handicap.

[raw]

20 hours ago, jersey cubs fan said:

I don’t think Bagent is a guy you start in front of a 1st round pick and I don’t think Bagent gives you any sort of look as a 1(B) starter. He’s a placeholder backup that can fill in as needed. Not as wanted. Bagent played against the soft underbelly of this schedule and did okay. He got one head coach fired and barely squeaked out a win over the worst team in football. 
if he actually can be a quality NFL backup, he can live with being 3rd in line for half a season and come out on the other side as a clear #2. Or we can never hear from him again and chuckle over the storyline 

 

17 hours ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

I like Bagent more than most but I can't imagine any scenario where I make a roster decision based on his existence or where I intentionally have him starting games going into a season.

I was really saying to intentionally start him over a 1st round pick. I just think the 1st round pick is going to start. Even if it's not Week 1, it won't be long (just like it wasn't long for Trubisky or Fields). Just that Bagent can start if you determine your draft pick isn't ready for a few weeks. It's not anyone's ideal scenario, but it's more probable than Fields holding a rookie's spot for any amount of time, especially when you can get picks for Fields THIS offseason and not next, unless you pick up his 5th year.....in which case, it doesn't make sense to draft a rookie anyway. 

Plus, I know it will be new coaches and all, but I don't think you can create a situation with Fields and Bagent in the same QB room, especially if Fields doesn't win at least 1/2 of the remaining games. Just a controversy waiting to happen with an obvious lame duck QB with like 8 wins in 40 games and his backup having won half his 4 starts.

[raw]

17 hours ago, Derwood said:

Week after week we talk about Fields/Bagent and the struggles of the offense while ignoring the fact that the defense has given up the 2nd most points in the league (behind only Washington)

Montez Sweat the common denominator.

[CubinNY]

6 minutes ago, raw said:

Montez Sweat the common denominator.

Awesome. But Derwood finally having a point is even better. It's such a damning set of data for this head coach and the GM who brought him in. 

[WrigleyField 22]

1 hour ago, raw said:

Montez Sweat the common denominator.

🤣

May be the head coaches running defensive schemes that haven't innovated in a decade too

[UMFan83]

if we’re still doing this…obsessing over OSullivan Fields breakdowns feels like a lifetime ago