Cubs offseason chit chat...

[Stratos]

Not sure if this was posted.  Moresi says a Bellinger deal doesn't look close with any team at the moment:

 

Edited January 29, 2024 by Stratos

[Irrelevant Dude]

20 minutes ago, chibears55 said:

Just saw that Bellinger hasn't recieved any offers from any teams yet, this could set up a return to the cubs for a deal with early opt outs.

Does a deal with early opt outs really make sense for the Cubs?  There are two common outcomes with those types of deals - either the player is good and leaves or the player is bad and you're stuck with him.  Either one of those benefits the player.  In a case where the market for Bellinger is tepid, I don't think I would go out of my to give him multiple opt out opportunities.

[Bertz]

22 minutes ago, Stratos said:

Source?  That seems odd.

Bob Nightengale.  Usually teams don't make formal offers until they think they and the agent are in the same ballpark so it's sort of a semantics thing.

[Stratos]

1 hour ago, TomtheBombadil said:

Yeah, I’m quietly rooting hard for Clase. He’s tippy top, 25, and on a great deal but being RP will make it controversial 

Me thinks they just filled the RHP high end setup role with Neris.  They could probably use another LHP in the pen, but they could also be done adding to the pen on MLB deals.

[Stratos]

4 minutes ago, Bertz said:

Bob Nightengale.  Usually teams don't make formal offers until they think they and the agent are in the same ballpark so it's sort of a semantics thing.

That makes sense, probably just tells us Boras' ask for Bellinger is still high enough to be unreasonable for all teams.  There's no way the 4 big Boras guys left haven't all received a bunch of interest from teams.

[Dfan25]

36 minutes ago, Stratos said:

If the offseason is a failure its Ricketts' fault.  There's only so much you can do when one of your best SP and your best hitter become FA, you have a mediocre bullpen, and you only have about 50m to replace them + make the team better. There was no path to improve this team significantly this offseason compared to last year's team if they stay under the LT unless they possibly started trading away a bunch of their best prospects.  Given he also signed Counsell, Hoyer's done well this offseason with the budget limits he seems to have been given from ownership.

Nonsense , Hoyer should have 20 more million to play with right now . He talks about been responsible with Ricketts money .20 million on this years payroll to pay Smily / Mancini / Barnhart .

Thats not responsible . 20 more million he should have available . With those 20 million they could have signed another hitter to go along with Bellinger .

With Bellinger at CF and Bush at 1B , PCA could have perhaps lead a package to aquire a cheap SP . Add another middle of the order bat and another SP with Bellinger and tell me it wouldn’t clearly improve the roster compared to 2023. 
 

Why can’t they trade prospects .? That’s more nonsense . Stop licking Hoyers balls . I hate Ricketts , but it’s time fans start holding Jed accountable for his mistakes as well . 

[Stratos]

1 hour ago, Dfan25 said:

Nonsense , Hoyer should have 20 more million to play with right now . He talks about been responsible with Ricketts money .20 million on this years payroll to pay Smily / Mancini / Barnhart .

Thats not responsible . 20 more million he should have available . With those 20 million they could have signed another hitter to go along with Bellinger .

With Bellinger at CF and Bush at 1B , PCA could have perhaps lead a package to aquire a cheap SP . Add another middle of the order bat and another SP with Bellinger and tell me it wouldn’t clearly improve the roster compared to 2023. 
 

Why can’t they trade prospects .? That’s more nonsense . Stop licking Hoyers balls . I hate Ricketts , but it’s time fans start holding Jed accountable for his mistakes as well . 

Please name a GM that had a better offseason than Jed last offseason?  Mets?  Padres?  The overwhelming majority of FA signings last year were a bust for all teams, especially the ones we may have been interested in.  The idea that a team is going to have zero dollars in dead money is simply unrealistic. 

If you're going to knock him for Mancini/Barnhart/Smyly then you have to give him credit for Swanson and Bellinger, which were among the 2 best signings of the offseason, and credit for not signing guys like Abreu, Rodon, DeGrom, Verlander, Correa, Rizzo, Bell, Conforto, Benintendi, Syndergaard, Vazquez, Navarez and so far getting the best of the 4 big FA SS at the cheapest price.

Edited January 29, 2024 by Stratos

[NorthsideAvenger]

4 hours ago, XZero77 said:

I'm a little wary of what the cost might be there, given his age and contract status. I'd love to have him, but I'd be surprised if whoever trades for him doesn't overpay.

I believe Cleveland was alledgedly asking for Cade Horton. You should  be wary.

[17 Seconds]

9 hours ago, BobbyD3 said:

Rob, you can certainly believe what you want, and I know you will.  That's great.  In fact, isn't that what our country encourages us to do?  We exist together with our differing beliefs and attempt to respect each other, despite our differing views.  We sit on opposite sides politically, and I am certainly not going to try and change you.  That old saying truly applies... "you do you".  I'm here for baseball talk; not politics, and the only reason that I responded as I did earlier is because I thought that your comment was a harsh blanket statement cast on the right-wingers.  I'm not upset,  It seems that you are, and I really wish you were not.  In fact, I have many friends that are liberals and we are still great friends.  We talk sports, not Biden, not Trump, not political issues.  It works really well.  We don't have to be friends, but I hope we can be fellow Cubs fans.      

stop trying to take the high road when you clearly are all about the low road 

[NorthsideAvenger]

20 minutes ago, The20thK said:

I really don’t want to even talk about it. Let’s just talk baseball and leave our political biases out. 

Please, I'm begging everybody to leave the politics in it's own thread and not here. Please?

Can we go back to crapping on Boras? Or talking about Madrigal not being tall enough to get on rides at Disney but is tall enough to play 3rd base for the Cubs?

[CubinNY]

8 hours ago, Stratos said:

Source?  That seems odd.

There was an article in the Athletic that mentioned it. The key word is formal offer 

[KCCub]

 

 

[Bertz]

25 minutes ago, KCCub said:

 

 

I like Turner a lot.  I like Belt a smidge more but Turner would be a really strong add to the 1B/DH mix.

[squally1313]

30 minutes ago, KCCub said:

 

 

Well those teams should try and add an impact corner infielder, and, if they are unsuccessful there, then they should consider Justin Turner. 

[CubinNY]

8 minutes ago, Bertz said:

I like Turner a lot.  I like Belt a smidge more but Turner would be a really strong add to the 1B/DH mix.

I'd rather not have to root for Turner under any circumstances. 

[Rcal10]

23 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Well those teams should try and add an impact corner infielder, and, if they are unsuccessful there, then they should consider Justin Turner. 

As a second bat and 3rd baseman I would be fine with Turner. But if he can’t play 3rd any longer I don’t see a need for him. Don’t want AB taken from Morel. 

 

[LBiittner]

2 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

As a second bat and 3rd baseman I would be fine with Turner. But if he can’t play 3rd any longer I don’t see a need for him. Don’t want AB taken from Morel. 

 

Or from busch

Edited January 29, 2024 by LBiittner

[thawv]

20 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

I don’t think 1 year of Bieber cost Morel+. If it does I wouldn’t trade Morel. I wouldn’t trade Morel for Bieber straight up. I actually like the idea of signing Chapman and another bat and trading Morel for a pitcher. Just not for 1 year of Bieber. I would rather a guy with some team control. Maybe Cabrera? Like I said, like the plan just not the pitcher we get back for Morel. 

My belief is that 5 years of Morel is much more valuable than 1 year of Bieber.

 

I think that it would be Morel for Bieber + someone like, Alex Clemmey.   Morel is worth much more than Bieber on his own. 

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I think you can probably make a reasonable argument in either direction about the value of Morel v. Bieber, but what is maybe more important is that it doesn't seem likely that even if the value lines up, that Jed would use Morel's trade value on a 1 year solution.

[thawv]

12 hours ago, Stratos said:

Source?  That seems odd.

https://www.cubsinsider.com/2024/01/29/cody-bellinger-has-not-received-formal-contract-offer-though-discussions-have-taken-place/#:~:text=Quite a few eyebrows were,t come as a surprise.

[We Got The Whole 9]

Contract discussion similar to Chappelle's old bit on hostage negotiation:

 

"We want 8 years, two..."

*click*

"Hello?"

[squally1313]

48 minutes ago, Transmogrified Tiger said:

I think you can probably make a reasonable argument in either direction about the value of Morel v. Bieber, but what is maybe more important is that it doesn't seem likely that even if the value lines up, that Jed would use Morel's trade value on a 1 year solution.

Agreed that it doesn't seem likely given what we know about his tendencies (though that's limited data). I would argue that where the roster stands right now, 85ish wins, probably a coin flip to make the playoffs, is the perfect time to trade future value for immediate production. 

[muntjack]

Didn't Turner grade out as the worst defensive 3rd baseman in the league last season?

[KCCub]

9 minutes ago, muntjack said:

Didn't Turner grade out as the worst defensive 3rd baseman in the league last season?

He was really bad in only 7 starts there. He's a 1b/DH at this point in his career who can play 3b/2b if absolutely needed. His games played last year were DH - 98, 1b 41 (-1 OAA), 2b 10, and 3b 7. 

Edited January 29, 2024 by KCCub

[Transmogrified Tiger]

56 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Agreed that it doesn't seem likely given what we know about his tendencies (though that's limited data). I would argue that where the roster stands right now, 85ish wins, probably a coin flip to make the playoffs, is the perfect time to trade future value for immediate production. 

I don't necessarily disagree, though for multiple reasons I'm not a fan of Morel for Bieber as a framework.  In the instance where using Morel to get immediate production  is preferred for the urgency reasons you mention, I think it's more likely they bet on their pitching infrastructure with more years of control and less certainty instead of going for someone like Bieber for 1 year.  That said, if they really like Bieber I could also see them seeing a trade for him as having either a de facto team option or a likely prospect ROI via the qualifying offer, so maybe that helps bridge the gap?