Cubs offseason chit chat...

[CubinNY]

1 hour ago, Rcal10 said:

Madlock won 2 batting titles with the Cubs then they made a stupid trade with the Giants for Murcer and Ontiveros. He went on to win 2 more batting titles. I don’t really remember Madlock being a bad teammate. I don’t feel suggesting he “got uppity” is necessary. Bottom line is the Cubs made a bad deal and traded a very good ballplayer. 

 

 

[Derwood]

I love this notion that because no signings have happened means Jed isn't trying

[SOFNR]

I've always been on board for Hoskins but was hoping he was like the 4th or 5th best addition this offseason. 

[CubinNY]

You can feel any way you want. 

[Tryptamine]

So we've become the Baltimore Orioles. Let everyone else feast and then when everyone else is full we get the leftovers.  A strategy totally fitting the 4th highest revenue team.

[17 Seconds]

2 minutes ago, Derwood said:

I love this notion that because no signings have happened means Jed isn't trying

come on derwood

[Tryptamine]

1 minute ago, Derwood said:

I love this notion that because no signings have happened means Jed isn't trying

Whether he is trying is irrelevant.  The only thing that matter are results and this offseason there are no positive results. 

[Jason Ross]

20 minutes ago, Derwood said:

I love this notion that because no signings have happened means Jed isn't trying

I don't think the lack of action is the only thing helping that feeling, though. The reporting on how the Cubs are going about this (and from multiple areas, national and local) is playing a pretty large factor in this, as well. And I don't think the Cubs comments (from Hoyer, from Carter, etc) are helping much, either. 

And we can question how accurate the reporting is. Both Nightengale and Mooney/Sharma have reported the Cubs interest in the Lee market (which wasn't something we had heard about all ofseason) so there's probably more action that's happening behind the scenes. With that said, it also kind of feels like the Cubs aren't operating with a defined vision of X, Y and Z and are more than happy to hope they can get one of X, Y or Z for less than market rate; which isn't bad business in theory, but also isn't really how you'd expect a team with the market size of the Cubs to act, either. 

Edited December 17, 2023 by 1908_Cubs

[Derwood]

14 minutes ago, 17 Seconds said:

come on derwood

I get that people are doom bonering, but there are several people here acting like Jed has decided to not sign anyone

[17 Seconds]

1 minute ago, Derwood said:

I get that people are doom bonering, but there are several people here acting like Jed has decided to not sign anyone

i get that, and it's annoying, but it felt like you were replying to my post about jed not being aggressive. of course he's trying, and i still think we'll end up with an alright offseason, but saying they aren't being aggressive isn't the same as saying they aren't trying.

the wait-for-bargains strategy just sucks. it might end up working out, but i don't think it's how this team should be operating.

[Derwood]

Just now, 17 Seconds said:

i get that, and it's annoying, but it felt like you were replying to my post about jed not being aggressive. of course he's trying, and i still think we'll end up with an alright offseason, but saying they aren't being aggressive isn't the same as saying they aren't trying.

the wait-for-bargains strategy just sucks. it might end up working out, but i don't think it's how this team should be operating.

I was not replying directly to you

[Rcal10]

8 minutes ago, 17 Seconds said:

i get that, and it's annoying, but it felt like you were replying to my post about jed not being aggressive. of course he's trying, and i still think we'll end up with an alright offseason, but saying they aren't being aggressive isn't the same as saying they aren't trying.

the wait-for-bargains strategy just sucks. it might end up working out, but i don't think it's how this team should be operating.

I don’t think anyone has suggested Jed is taking the off season off and not trying. But I do think he may have overvalued his trade assets and undervalued the cost of certain free agents, and due to that he has not been able to do anything. That is different than not trying and also different from being aggressive.  So he is either going to have to pony up some prospects in trade, raise the salary threshold he is comfortable with in free agents, or sit back and see who drops to him. So far, it appears he is taking the last approach. And that is just not a good approach for a team with the revenues of the Cubs, IMO. I do believe he will eventually put a decent team in the field. I just don’t like the method he appears to be using. 

[CubinNY]

I took a family trip from Alabama to Michigan. We are staying in a hotel and I have a really hard time sleeping away from home (my bricks to carry). In my insomniac state I read as much as I could of direct quotes from Jed and Hawkins. 
 

If you take them at their word, and I think we should, they think the Cubs are on the brink of a breakout with the prospects they have in the high minors and also think they have cracked the code on developing pitchers. They apparently hired Consell to help shepherd in the young talent. 
 

I get the sense they are content to let the market pass them by and are looking for short term fixes. Which, ok I guess, but damn that’s frustrating. 
 

The direct line from Ricketts to Hawkins is clear. There is no daylight. There will be no hot seats handed out if the Cubs finish with a worse record next year as they continue to build the team the way the Ricketts want it built. 

Edited December 17, 2023 by CubinNY

[Rcal10]

1 minute ago, CubinNY said:

I took a family trip from Alabama to Michigan. We are staying in a hotel and I have a really hard time sleeping away from home (my bricks to carry). In my insomniac state I read as much as I could of direct quotes from Jed and Hawkins. 
 

If you take them at their word, and I think we should, they think the Cubs are on the brink of a breakout with the prospects they have in the high minors and also think they have cracked the code on developing pitchers. They apparently hired Consell to help shepherd in the young talent. 
 

I get the sense they are content to let the market pass them by and are looking for short term fixes. Which, ok I guess, but damn that’s frustrating. 
 

The direct line from Ricketts to Hawkins is clear. There is no daylight. There will be not hot seats handed out if the Cubs finish with a worse record next year as the continue to build the team the way the Ricketts want it built. 

Based on early returns I think your assessment is spot on. 

[jersey cubs fan]

19 minutes ago, Derwood said:

I get that people are doom bonering, but there are several people here acting like Jed has decided to not sign anyone

This is really dumb .

[Bertz]

I'd expect Jed's being relatively active on the pitching front.  There's a steep cliff after the top 4-5 guys remaining, and the roster barring any major trades has pretty enviable depth already.  The pitching market is also clearly holding out for Yamamoto before it starts moving again.  Fans are yelling for Jed to do something but he probably couldn't sign Imanaga or Montgomery this afternoon even if he wanted.

On the position player side, unfortunately the play probably is to drag his feet.  This winter from the jump had Ohtani/Soto, then a big gap to Bellinger/Chapman, then another gap before a bunch of 2-2.5 WAR guys.  After Jed passed on Soto and lost on Ohtani playing the waiting game unfortunately became the smart play.  Especially given the team needs 2-3 bats but can be fairly agnostic about where they play.

[WhyCantWeWin]

Jeds wait back and see what falls on his lap approach is pretty dumb in my opinion, worse it basically confirms the Cubs will never land a star player because he doesn't want to enter bidding wars. Can basically count out Soto next year. 

[Jason Ross]

15 minutes ago, Bertz said:

I'd expect Jed's being relatively active on the pitching front.  There's a steep cliff after the top 4-5 guys remaining, and the roster barring any major trades has pretty enviable depth already.  The pitching market is also clearly holding out for Yamamoto before it starts moving again.  Fans are yelling for Jed to do something but he probably couldn't sign Imanaga or Montgomery this afternoon even if he wanted.

On the position player side, unfortunately the play probably is to drag his feet.  This winter from the jump had Ohtani/Soto, then a big gap to Bellinger/Chapman, then another gap before a bunch of 2-2.5 WAR guys.  After Jed passed on Soto and lost on Ohtani playing the waiting game unfortunately became the smart play.  Especially given the team needs 2-3 bats but can be fairly agnostic about where they play.

We'll have to see what they do with the pitching. Their behavior in the hitter's market may be exclusive to hitters, but also, may not be. The Cubs very well may have a "wait and see" approach there, too. For whatever reason, they didn't get Glasnow. They didn't get Nola, though he seems like he was likely going back to Philadelphia. They didn't jump in on Gray. They also are the only major market not invested in the Yamamoto market. When many of these markets miss on Yamamoto, it's likely many will turn to Imanaga, Snell and Montgomery. Are the Cubs going to show agency here? Or will they, once again, wait it out and see? The Cubs are not a team who seemingly gets into bidding wars for players, so I think it's fair to wonder how they're going to handle that market as much as the offense. 

[CubinNY]

22 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

I took a family trip from Alabama to Michigan. We are staying in a hotel and I have a really hard time sleeping away from home (my bricks to carry). In my insomniac state I read as much as I could of direct quotes from Jed and Hawkins. 
 

If you take them at their word, and I think we should, they think the Cubs are on the brink of a breakout with the prospects they have in the high minors and also think they have cracked the code on developing pitchers. They apparently hired Consell to help shepherd in the young talent. 
 

I get the sense they are content to let the market pass them by and are looking for short term fixes. Which, ok I guess, but damn that’s frustrating. 
 

The direct line from Ricketts to Hawkins is clear. There is no daylight. There will be no hot seats handed out if the Cubs finish with a worse record next year as they continue to build the team the way the Ricketts want it built. 

My personal opinion is that they are getting too high on their assessment of the talent in the minors. They have depth but not height. They will need to roll 7’s and there will still be holes to fill. And we know they aren’t rolling 7’s. 

[Tryptamine]

Jed is clearly super high on the farm, but as was mentioned above, they are a farm that's highly rated because it has incredible depth. They have a ton of guys who could be every day regulars, but very few who figure who have all star caliber upside. This is fine if you plan to go out and buy the all stars, but Jed hasn't given us an inclination that he's going to go that route. 

[Rcal10]

4 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

Jed is clearly super high on the farm, but as was mentioned above, they are a farm that's highly rated because it has incredible depth. They have a ton of guys who could be every day regulars, but very few who figure who have all star caliber upside. This is fine if you plan to go out and buy the all stars, but Jed hasn't given us an inclination that he's going to go that route. 

You know what else a lot of depth in the minors is good for? Trades. They have a lot of quality talent down in the minors. Pick a few and move them for real talent. I know you agree with this. This is just the post I am responding to. 

[We Got The Whole 9]

Add a couple everyday guys that project for 110-120, sign cheap pen help like David Robertson and Jordan Hicks, and land one of the MORP, preferably Montgomery. Let the rookies really audition. 

 

I think I will enjoy the season.

[17 Seconds]

8 minutes ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

Add a couple everyday guys that project for 110-120, sign cheap pen help like David Robertson and Jordan Hicks, and land one of the MORP, preferably Montgomery. Let the rookies really audition. 

 

I think I will enjoy the season.

so just let the brewers win a lousy division again

[Tryptamine]

8 minutes ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

Add a couple everyday guys that project for 110-120, sign cheap pen help like David Robertson and Jordan Hicks, and land one of the MORP, preferably Montgomery. Let the rookies really audition. 

 

I think I will enjoy the season.

Not in a season where the Cardinals and Brewers are basically begging you to come and take the division. 

[CubbyBlue2008]

This wait and see approach is a great way to ensure you only sign/trade for B and C tier players. As we have seen, all it takes is one team to be willing to shell out for the big time players. It happens time and time again. Big time players will never make it to us. It’s pathetic that a big market team like the Cubs is operating like this.