Cubs offseason chit chat...

[gocubs218]

I can talk myself into Chapman if we give him an opt out after 1 year and hope he goes nuts next year. Not my ideal scenario but I wouldn’t hate it. 

[Rcal10]

34 minutes ago, ToolDRT said:

I’m not touching him unless his market falls to level beyond unimaginable. His offense has always been meh, but those last four months last year were downright gross. I think we have enough money tied into players who’s main upside is their glove. It’s time to actually find some offense for this team. 
 

Or, if they wanted to go absolutely crazy on pitching (think Yamamoto, Imanga, Hader) then fine, I’ll take his glove on a team friendly deal. But him as our main piece? Disgusting. 
 

 

I could see him if they did other things as well. Maybe a trade for Naylor and Bieber. Maybe also sign someone like Imanaga or Montgomery. Then add a pen arm. Not my ideal off season, but I do think it would be a good team. 

[Tryptamine]

20 minutes ago, gocubs218 said:

I can talk myself into Chapman if we give him an opt out after 1 year and hope he goes nuts next year. Not my ideal scenario but I wouldn’t hate it. 

Opt outs never benefit the team. If he goes nuts, you want him to stay. 

[gocubs218]

9 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

Opt outs never benefit the team. If he goes nuts, you want him to stay. 

But I don’t trust him to go nuts for years 2-5. Let someone else take that risk. 

[Stratos]

2 hours ago, UMFan83 said:

Remember when a Glasgow and Hoskins led offseason seemed boring?

I remember last offseason most Cubs fans wanted one (or 2) of Correa/Turner/Bogaerts, plus Jose Abreu, one of the better FA catchers like Christian Vazquez, and Senga.  Can't remember who they wanted in CF, I guess one between Nimmo and Bellinger.  Some wanted Conforto.

We got Swanson, Mancini/Hosmer, Barnhart, Taillon, and Bellinger.

New theory;  If most Cubs fans want a player, that means most GM's will likely want him as well, which means they'll probably be over-bid in Jed's eyes, which means we probably won't sign them.

[Layoutman]

2 hours ago, Bertz said:

Matt Chapman was the 58th best position player in baseball last year, in between Manny Machado and Matt Chapman.  Over the last three years he's 30th in between Alex Bregman and Fernando Tatis Jr.

I really hope Jed decides to address 3B around the trade deadline when Bregman could become available and/or Polanco could be cheaper.  Focus on Pitching and lefthanded bats (1B/DH) now and use the intervening months to see how the in-house options fare at 3B. (Morel,Shaw) Provided Madrigal is on the field he is not going to kill you production wise.    

[Irrelevant Dude]

29 minutes ago, Layoutman said:

Provided Madrigal is on the field he is not going to kill you production wise.    

Building anything around an assumption of Madrigal being healthy would be extremely unwise.

[LBiittner]

1 hour ago, Layoutman said:

I really hope Jed decides to address 3B around the trade deadline when Bregman could become available and/or Polanco could be cheaper.  Focus on Pitching and lefthanded bats (1B/DH) now and use the intervening months to see how the in-house options fare at 3B. (Morel,Shaw) Provided Madrigal is on the field he is not going to kill you production wise.    

Do you feel the cubs have a better chance of contending than the Astros? I dont

[Jason Ross]

50 minutes ago, Irrelevant Dude said:

Building anything around an assumption of Madrigal being healthy would be extremely unwise.

I doubt anyone is considering the Cubs to build around Madrigal. With that said, Madrrgal being a decent, defense first option at 3b for half a season (provided the Cubs address both 1b and DH with 120+ wRC+ hitters) is...okay along with the others getting PAs. Not great, but I'll survive.

[LBiittner]

3 hours ago, Bertz said:

Oops yeah that was supposed to be Machado and Luis Arraez.

But the Cubs don't *need* a big bat, they just need to improve.  Most of us on a pure aesthetic level would prefer the bat, but for the most part wins are wins.  I don't love Matt Chapman, but if Jed is sniffing that his market is weak I understand the interest.  I think anything under $100M or so would be a very very good deal.

3 years 90m?

[LBiittner]

3 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

I doubt anyone is considering the Cubs to build around Madrigal. With that said, Madrrgal being a decent, defense first option at 3b for half a season (provided the Cubs address both 1b and DH with 120+ wRC+ hitters) is...okay along with the others getting PAs. Not great, but I'll survive.

 Madrigal is trying to come back from another hammy if I recall? I see him as injury challenged right now.

So the plan would be madrigal for 80 and a combo of wisdom/mastraboni for 80?

I hate Jed 

 

 

[LBiittner]

6 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

I honestly think Hoyer goes into the off season with all these ideas on how to make the team better via free agency and trades. 

 

Edited December 17, 2023 by LBiittner
Wrong info

[Layoutman]

2 hours ago, LBiittner said:

Do you feel the cubs have a better chance of contending than the Astros? I dont

What I'm saying is Bregman is currently unavailable as are other potential 3B options. That landscape could change around the trade deadline. The current options are unappealing. A glove first Chapman would require a multi-year offer and has had a qualify offer making it even uglier proposition.  There are potential in-house solutions that work (Madrigal) that won't win you a world series but will let you tread water until more viable solutions can be obtained without handcuffing the organization.  Shaw plays 3rd in AA and Morel at 3B in ST,

Fix what you can fix now (1B/DH) preferably of Left handed variety and pitching.  

Plan on addressing 3B at the deadline if Morel / Shaw situation is not satisfactory. Bregman still may not be available but maybe Tampa is out of it and then Paredes // Lowe is an option. (My point is there will be MORE options at point then there are RIGHT now).
***And I'm not advocating building around Nick freaking Madrigal....he is just the lesser of two evils.

[CubinNY]

9 hours ago, Layoutman said:

I really hope Jed decides to address 3B around the trade deadline when Bregman could become available and/or Polanco could be cheaper.  Focus on Pitching and lefthanded bats (1B/DH) now and use the intervening months to see how the in-house options fare at 3B. (Morel,Shaw) Provided Madrigal is on the field he is not going to kill you production wise.    

Between Santo and Aramis 3B is a black hole. They  had Bill Madlock for a couple of years but he got uppity after winning the batting title so Wrigley sent him off. 
 

 

[BigbadB]

1 hour ago, CubinNY said:

Between Santo and Aramis 3B is a black hole. They  had Bill Madlock for a couple of years but he got uppity after winning the batting title so Wrigley sent him off. 
 

 

Man, that Aramis and Lofton trade is still one of my favorite Cub trades. Talk about an impact trade. That was my first year on this site, too. 

[Rcal10]

2 hours ago, CubinNY said:

Between Santo and Aramis 3B is a black hole. They  had Bill Madlock for a couple of years but he got uppity after winning the batting title so Wrigley sent him off. 
 

 

Madlock won 2 batting titles with the Cubs then they made a stupid trade with the Giants for Murcer and Ontiveros. He went on to win 2 more batting titles. I don’t really remember Madlock being a bad teammate. I don’t feel suggesting he “got uppity” is necessary. Bottom line is the Cubs made a bad deal and traded a very good ballplayer. 

 

[LBiittner]

7 hours ago, Layoutman said:

What I'm saying is Bregman is currently unavailable as are other potential 3B options. That landscape could change around the trade deadline. The current options are unappealing. A glove first Chapman would require a multi-year offer and has had a qualify offer making it even uglier proposition.  There are potential in-house solutions that work (Madrigal) that won't win you a world series but will let you tread water until more viable solutions can be obtained without handcuffing the organization.  Shaw plays 3rd in AA and Morel at 3B in ST,

Fix what you can fix now (1B/DH) preferably of Left handed variety and pitching.  

Plan on addressing 3B at the deadline if Morel / Shaw situation is not satisfactory. Bregman still may not be available but maybe Tampa is out of it and then Paredes // Lowe is an option. (My point is there will be MORE options at point then there are RIGHT now).
***And I'm not advocating building around Nick freaking Madrigal....he is just the lesser of two evils.

I agree with your sentiments regarding madrigal. But recent history will tell you both the Astros and Rays stand a better chance of contending into september than our crappy cub team as currently constructed. And to hold out on a wish and a prayer for a substantial thirdbaseman availability heading into September is a terrible way to build a playoff roster. Morel glove at 3rd makes me vomit. His poor fielding will probably affect his hitting mentality. And to holdout hope of a youngster with 50ish innings played at third in his first pro season is akin to praying to sweet baby Jesus to win the lottery. An offseason of Chapman bellinger and Hoskins is the quickest way to contention this upcoming season. And the more I utilize Medicare, the more I want a contender NOW. 

Sorry for the rant

[LBiittner]

2 hours ago, CubinNY said:

Between Santo and Aramis 3B is a black hole. They  had Bill Madlock for a couple of years but he got uppity after winning the batting title so Wrigley sent him off. 
 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Madlock won 2 batting titles with the Cubs then they made a stupid trade with the Giants for Murcer and Ontiveros. He went on to win 2 more batting titles. I don’t really remember Madlock being a bad teammate. I don’t feel suggesting he “got uppity” is necessary. Bottom line is the Cubs made a bad deal and traded a very good ballplayer. 

 

Wrigley racism was speculated because madlock didn't toe the line the way Wrigley thought men of color should act. 

Different times, different world.

[Jason Ross]

Per Nightengale: 

"The Chicago Cubs are in talks with agent Scott Boras about signing free-agent first baseman Rhys Hoskins"

"The Toronto Blue Jays have emerged as the favorite for Cody Bellinger with the Cubs still in the hunt."

Source to USA Today

Edited December 17, 2023 by 1908_Cubs

[Butch Gernant]

Lenny Randle was fun to watch, but wasn't close to being a star.

[Jason Ross]

Mooney also wrote another article in The Athletic. I think this line sums it up best: 

"Simply put, the Cubs are always looking for good players on good deals on their terms."

He mentions the Cubs will be interested in Imanaga once Yamamoto chooses a team. They were in on Lee before he signed in SF. They expressed no interest in Candelario. But nothing seems immanent per the article. Another quote from the article: 

"To understand the slower pace and the shifting expectations for this offseason, you have to remember the Cubs want to create lanes for their top prospects, preserve roster flexibility and maximize their financial resources." 

For lack of a better way of explaining it, the Cubs feel like they're going to be the catfish of the offseason, as they sit back and wait for other teams to make their moves and hope things they want fall to them. Which, in theory isn't bad, but also makes me feel like there isn't a real "plan" here. The vision seems to be less on specifics and more on "get players cheaper than you might normally get". Which feels like the opposite of a big market. 

For those who subscribe to the Athletic, article sourced here.

Edited December 17, 2023 by 1908_Cubs

[Rcal10]

16 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

Per Nightengale: 

"The Chicago Cubs are in talks with agent Scott Boras about signing free-agent first baseman Rhys Hoskins"

"The Toronto Blue Jays have emerged as the favorite for Cody Bellinger with the Cubs still in the hunt."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2023/12/17/gary-sheffield-deserves-baseball-hall-of-fame/71944010007/

I wouldn’t mind Hoskins, but they need another bat and it kind of needs to be left handed. So where do they get that? We all have given up hope on Morel at 3rd so they can’t really trade for Naylor and let him and Hoskins share 1st and DH. So that leaves guys like Polanco or maybe Lowe in a trade. Neither, btw, who have played third. Unless there is going to be a lot of shake up with trades I don’t know how they get that other bas(left handed) if they fill first base with Hoskins.

Also, hate this plan to wait and see who falls to them. Definitely a small market mentality. 

[17 Seconds]

the division is right there for the taking, we have tons of assets, and Jed still can't be aggressive. 

[Rcal10]

6 minutes ago, 17 Seconds said:

the division is right there for the taking, we have tons of assets, and Jed still can't be aggressive. 

Yep, ridiculous. And if their plan is to wait to bounce on value guys only, that is a terrible plan for a major market team. I understand it for smaller markets. But the Xubs really should target a guy and get him, period. Not wait to see what falls to them. 

[Transmogrified Tiger]

30 minutes ago, Butch Gernant said:

Lenny Randle was fun to watch, but wasn't close to being a star.

Welcome!