2022-23 NBA Season

[We Got The Whole 9]

Cam Thomas has gone off the deep end crazy since the trade.

 

134 points in 3 games. Yet another late 1st rounder that is turning out to be a potential superstar.

 

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[Irrelevant Dude]

I have never been a LeBron James fan and there is no way he could ever overtake Jordan in my mind, but damn is his longevity impressive. He is still performing at an All-Star level in the 20th season of his NBA career. He is 38 years old, equivalent to Jordan in his final Wizards season, and looks like he can still play for several more years. I suspect some people's GOAT opinions will begin to change by the time he retires, simply due to the length of his career and the sheer accumulation of stats that will likely never be touched. It is definitely going to be hard to argue with his overall statistics.

[Brian707]

Does Lebron last as long as he has if he played in an NBA where they still played defense?

[We Got The Whole 9]

I have never been a LeBron James fan and there is no way he could ever overtake Jordan in my mind, but damn is his longevity impressive. He is still performing at an All-Star level in the 20th season of his NBA career. He is 38 years old, equivalent to Jordan in his final Wizards season, and looks like he can still play for several more years. I suspect some people's GOAT opinions will begin to change by the time he retires, simply due to the length of his career and the sheer accumulation of stats that will likely never be touched. It is definitely going to be hard to argue with his overall statistics.

Similar to Brady, right? His counting stats look so far out of reach for anyone. At 44 years old he threw for 5300 yards and 43 TDs, and went out with a (obligatory reminder the Bears have never had one such season) 4600 yard season and 25 TDs. You literally have to throw for 90K yards and 650 TDs to pass him. But his efficiency stats are also just incredible; a 97 rating with a 3:1 TD:INT. Oh and 7 rings.

 

What LeBron is doing is a mindbender. I have little doubt he could be an MVP top 10 at age 50 if he just kept playing. His physical prowess is unbelievable.

 

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[squally1313]

Some pretty questionable LBJ takes going on here.

[UMFan83]

I have never been a LeBron James fan and there is no way he could ever overtake Jordan in my mind, but damn is his longevity impressive. He is still performing at an All-Star level in the 20th season of his NBA career. He is 38 years old, equivalent to Jordan in his final Wizards season, and looks like he can still play for several more years. I suspect some people's GOAT opinions will begin to change by the time he retires, simply due to the length of his career and the sheer accumulation of stats that will likely never be touched. It is definitely going to be hard to argue with his overall statistics.

 

I've stopped weighing in on the GOAT debate. My opinion, even if correct, is biased. A huge chunk of the people chiming in either weren't around for most or all of MJ's career or are old enough that MJ was more of their generation so they remember it fondly. I supposed I would be in the age range of someone qualified to comment as the Bulls dynasty years were basically my teens and the LeBron years were my 20s and 30s, but being a Bulls fan gives me bias.

 

I honestly don't mind people calling Jordan and LeBron 1 and 1a. I think Jordan was better but if you get into those arguments there are numerous statistics and things you can point out that can make either side look better. All I know is that even LeBron was gawking when MJ showed up at the ASG last year for the 50 greatest players thing. Jordan's mere presence freezes everyone in the room in a way that no other past or present NBA player has. He carries himself like he knows he's the GOAT and doesn't care what you think (though surely he does care). Does that alone make him the greatest? Not at all of course. But I do think it keeps him in the conversation with LeBron for the rest of his life at least.

[SouthSideRyan]

We should probably rely on a non-Bulls fan to decide.

[17 Seconds]

jordan better peak, lebron more impressive career. same as peyton/brady

[Irrelevant Dude]

jordan better peak, lebron more impressive career. same as peyton/brady

It's more than just a peak though, unless you consider Jordan's entire Bulls career his peak. For the span of an entire "normal" career, you could say that Jordan was better than LeBron. What complicates the discussion is that LeBron has all these extra years, before and especially after, where he is/was really good beyond the point that anyone else really has been.

[17 Seconds]

jordan better peak, lebron more impressive career. same as peyton/brady

It's more than just a peak though, unless you consider Jordan's entire Bulls career his peak. For the span of an entire "normal" career, you could say that Jordan was better than LeBron. What complicates the discussion is that LeBron has all these extra years, before and especially after, where he is/was really good beyond the point that anyone else really has been.

 

better/longer peak

[UMFan83]

jordan better peak, lebron more impressive career. same as peyton/brady

 

I get what you are saying from a longevity perspective, but Manning/Brady probably isn't the best comparison. Jordan still has more titles than LeBron....when I think of Manning I think of a guy who was probably the best QB in the league in many of the years that he played but never the unquestioned best QB (mostly bc of Brady). And then the next thing I think about is how the only Super Bowls he ever won were against Rex Grossman and in the final year of his career with a defense that almost literally carried him and what was left of his noodle arm to a championship.

 

The thing that makes the GOAT comparison difficult is 1) they played in much different eras and 2) they were different types of players, similar in some ways but you can't do an apples-to-apples statistical comparison. I absolutely think that LeBron's longevity should be a factor in his GOAT case, but not THE factor. Jordan had a long sustained peak that lasted as long as many careers, however Jordan didn't have the option of joining the NBA out of high school, or after his freshman year, or after his sophomore year. Not to say Jordan was ready for the NBA out of high school like LeBron was, but those are 3 years LeBron had to accumulate stats that Jordan didn't have as an option. Also he literally retired to try to play another sport in the middle of his prime which is still bizarre to me. Give him those 4.5 seasons and he still has more points than LeBron and probably 4 more championships than him instead of 2 more.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I have never been a LeBron James fan and there is no way he could ever overtake Jordan in my mind, but damn is his longevity impressive. He is still performing at an All-Star level in the 20th season of his NBA career. He is 38 years old, equivalent to Jordan in his final Wizards season, and looks like he can still play for several more years. I suspect some people's GOAT opinions will begin to change by the time he retires, simply due to the length of his career and the sheer accumulation of stats that will likely never be touched. It is definitely going to be hard to argue with his overall statistics.

Similar to Brady, right? His counting stats look so far out of reach for anyone. At 44 years old he threw for 5300 yards and 43 TDs, and went out with a (obligatory reminder the Bears have never had one such season) 4600 yard season and 25 TDs. You literally have to throw for 90K yards and 650 TDs to pass him. But his efficiency stats are also just incredible; a 97 rating with a 3:1 TD:INT. Oh and 7 rings.

 

What LeBron is doing is a mindbender. I have little doubt he could be an MVP top 10 at age 50 if he just kept playing. His physical prowess is unbelievable.

 

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The one thing that probably keeps Brady in reach is that passing stats didn't really take off league-wide until midway through his career, he didn't have his 3rd 4000 yard passing season until 32. So someone like Mahomes could average 5k/season til 41 or so and catch him, or some future hotshot could do so until 39-40. Not something I'd bet on, but more likely than anyone coming close to LBJ/Kareem for a really long time.

[imb]

better player and goat are too different things

 

lebron is better than jordan, i just dont see anyway around that. but the goat debate is about record, and jordan was 6-0 in the finals, killed all of his enemies ... it's more than just looking at win shares or PER. Jordan's resume is unmatched, that's why he's the goat.

[17 Seconds]

i can't decide if the "jordan did it all with one team" says better things about michael or lebron. usually people say that's a win for jordan, but he was also lucky to be surrounded by great teams (with warriors-like continuity) for most of his career. lebron spent his first cleveland run surrounded by terrible rosters that didn't really give him a chance. if lbj was drafted into the bulls situation AND he stayed this good until his late 30's, he could very easily have more than 6.

[Irrelevant Dude]

better player and goat are too different things

Just as "better" and "more talented" are two different things. LeBron is undoubtedly more talented and has physical gifts well beyond Jordan or anyone else in NBA history for that matter, but more talent doesn't directly translate to being the better player.

[raw]

I have never been a LeBron James fan and there is no way he could ever overtake Jordan in my mind, but damn is his longevity impressive. He is still performing at an All-Star level in the 20th season of his NBA career. He is 38 years old, equivalent to Jordan in his final Wizards season, and looks like he can still play for several more years. I suspect some people's GOAT opinions will begin to change by the time he retires, simply due to the length of his career and the sheer accumulation of stats that will likely never be touched. It is definitely going to be hard to argue with his overall statistics.

 

I've stopped weighing in on the GOAT debate. My opinion, even if correct, is biased. A huge chunk of the people chiming in either weren't around for most or all of MJ's career or are old enough that MJ was more of their generation so they remember it fondly. I supposed I would be in the age range of someone qualified to comment as the Bulls dynasty years were basically my teens and the LeBron years were my 20s and 30s, but being a Bulls fan gives me bias.

 

I honestly don't mind people calling Jordan and LeBron 1 and 1a. I think Jordan was better but if you get into those arguments there are numerous statistics and things you can point out that can make either side look better. All I know is that even LeBron was gawking when MJ showed up at the ASG last year for the 50 greatest players thing. Jordan's mere presence freezes everyone in the room in a way that no other past or present NBA player has. He carries himself like he knows he's the GOAT and doesn't care what you think (though surely he does care). Does that alone make him the greatest? Not at all of course. But I do think it keeps him in the conversation with LeBron for the rest of his life at least.

 

That ASG thing last year is when the debate officially ended for me. Granted, like you, I am completely biased as a Bulls fan who was a teenager thru the double 3-peat. But that night, they announced the greatest players of all time, calling them out 1-by-1. The last player called out was Michael Jordan. Which in and of itself doesn't mean much. But the fact that Jordan was the last player out, got the biggest cheer from fans and players alike, and throw in the fact that LeBron was wearing a Jordan brand logo on his all star jersey and it was in Cleveland! LeBron's home town where he brought the only major sports title in the modern history of the city and Cleveland was the place where Jordan took his greatest to GOAT level by sticking a dagger in all those fans' hearts.

[raw]

i can't decide if the "jordan did it all with one team" says better things about michael or lebron. usually people say that's a win for jordan, but he was also lucky to be surrounded by great teams (with warriors-like continuity) for most of his career. lebron spent his first cleveland run surrounded by terrible rosters that didn't really give him a chance. if lbj was drafted into the bulls situation AND he stayed this good until his late 30's, he could very easily have more than 6.

 

The Bulls situation Jordan came in the league to was just as bad as the Cavs situation LeBron came in to.

[soccer10k]

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[UMFan83]

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Just another day in the NBA

[Rex Buckingham]

absolute best tweet about this, via Robin Lopez:

 

[champaignchris]

I think some people undervalue Lebron’s accomplishments for the same reason Wilt Chamberlain’s accomplishments got undervalued; he’s such a physical specimen that people just assume that he’s going to get his numbers no matter what.

 

And LeBron is a complete physical/athletic freak. He’s Oscar Robertson’s game in Karl Malone’s body. And he keeps himself in immaculate condition, both mind and body.

 

I’m not going into the Jordan-Lebron debate, but one thing Lebron has over Jordan is that he kept himself mentally able to play for two decades. Jordan walked away from the game physically healthy but burnt out, not once but twice. People sometimes criticize Lebron’s lack of intensity, but I have a hard time believing he makes it 20 years if he had kept himself in a state of competitive rage the way Jordan did.

[raw]

So obviously, the Suns have to be championship favorites. I still think Boston/Milwaukee have a shot to win it all if either comes out of the East, but the Suns have gone to West finals game 7 or NBA finals the last 2 years.

 

But the interesting team to me is Brooklyn. Am I crazy or do they still have a pretty decent team? They are 5th in the East and it'll be interesting to see if they can hold on to a playoff spot. I'd imagine they'll at least get into the play-in. But this isn't a terrible squad

 

G- Dinwiddie (17.7 ppg, 40.5% 3pt), Ben Simmons (he rebounds and passes and stuff)

G- Cam Thomas (best player in NBA history the last week, 42.7% 3pt for season), Seth Curry (46% 3pt)

F- Mikal Bridges (17.2 ppg, 38.7% 3pt), Joe Harris (40.6% 3pt), Cam Johnson (14 ppg, 45.5% 3pt)

F- Finney-Smith (9 ppg, 35.5% 3pt), Royce O'Neal (9, 4, 4, 40% 3pt), Jae Crowder (imagine he's traded again?, 9 ppg, 35% 3pt)

C- Nic Claxton (13ppg, 9 rebs)

[mul21]

i can't decide if the "jordan did it all with one team" says better things about michael or lebron. usually people say that's a win for jordan, but he was also lucky to be surrounded by great teams (with warriors-like continuity) for most of his career. lebron spent his first cleveland run surrounded by terrible rosters that didn't really give him a chance. if lbj was drafted into the bulls situation AND he stayed this good until his late 30's, he could very easily have more than 6.

 

Was it really all that much continuity? I think the only guys who were on both 3 peat teams were Jordan and Pippen. You had completely different rosters other than those 2.

[squally1313]

So obviously, the Suns have to be championship favorites. I still think Boston/Milwaukee have a shot to win it all if either comes out of the East, but the Suns have gone to West finals game 7 or NBA finals the last 2 years.

 

But the interesting team to me is Brooklyn. Am I crazy or do they still have a pretty decent team? They are 5th in the East and it'll be interesting to see if they can hold on to a playoff spot. I'd imagine they'll at least get into the play-in. But this isn't a terrible squad

 

G- Dinwiddie (17.7 ppg, 40.5% 3pt), Ben Simmons (he rebounds and passes and stuff)

G- Cam Thomas (best player in NBA history the last week, 42.7% 3pt for season), Seth Curry (46% 3pt)

F- Mikal Bridges (17.2 ppg, 38.7% 3pt), Joe Harris (40.6% 3pt), Cam Johnson (14 ppg, 45.5% 3pt)

F- Finney-Smith (9 ppg, 35.5% 3pt), Royce O'Neal (9, 4, 4, 40% 3pt), Jae Crowder (imagine he's traded again?, 9 ppg, 35% 3pt)

C- Nic Claxton (13ppg, 9 rebs)

This reads more to me like a list of players who can maybe get them some more first round picks to stockpile now that, for example, all the West teams have a new team to try and chase down.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

So obviously, the Suns have to be championship favorites. I still think Boston/Milwaukee have a shot to win it all if either comes out of the East, but the Suns have gone to West finals game 7 or NBA finals the last 2 years.

 

But the interesting team to me is Brooklyn. Am I crazy or do they still have a pretty decent team? They are 5th in the East and it'll be interesting to see if they can hold on to a playoff spot. I'd imagine they'll at least get into the play-in. But this isn't a terrible squad

 

G- Dinwiddie (17.7 ppg, 40.5% 3pt), Ben Simmons (he rebounds and passes and stuff)

G- Cam Thomas (best player in NBA history the last week, 42.7% 3pt for season), Seth Curry (46% 3pt)

F- Mikal Bridges (17.2 ppg, 38.7% 3pt), Joe Harris (40.6% 3pt), Cam Johnson (14 ppg, 45.5% 3pt)

F- Finney-Smith (9 ppg, 35.5% 3pt), Royce O'Neal (9, 4, 4, 40% 3pt), Jae Crowder (imagine he's traded again?, 9 ppg, 35% 3pt)

C- Nic Claxton (13ppg, 9 rebs)

This reads more to me like a list of players who can maybe get them some more first round picks to stockpile now that, for example, all the West teams have a new team to try and chase down.

 

Yeah, I'm an NBA idiot but it reads like a list of guys who are 3rd/4th options on a championship caliber team. A fairly deep list of those guys, but still, the types that everyone gets excited about only at the trade deadline because teams are looking to patch a hole rather than build a title contender.