Bears week 6: Commanders on Thursday night

[sneakypower]

What's Fields supposed to do? Catch the ball for the receivers as well?

how

[gflore34]

At the very least they could end the Smith-Marsette and Pettis experiments and give those snaps to Jones Jr. and Harry. Also, go more play-action on first down, some more of the quick passes and screens they did yesterday, more rollouts etc. Whether they want to admit it or not, the starting point/assumption is the line cannot pass block, they'll be pressure on every passing attempt so, if possible, find something that Fields and, mainly, the receivers can execute. Sounds near impossible, there's got to be something that can be exploited, I think.

[Derwood]

What's Fields supposed to do? Catch the ball for the receivers as well?

how

 

Fields need to put more air under the ball. Shoot, he could have tossed it underhand and it would've been better. No one was close to the TE

[gflore34]

What's Fields supposed to do? Catch the ball for the receivers as well?

how

 

Without question that one was on him, bad throw on what should have been a layup.

[minnesotacubsfan]

What's Fields supposed to do? Catch the ball for the receivers as well?

how

 

that was Fields worst throw of the night, and it wasn't only bad because the TE he was throwing to shouldn't be in the NFL. If there is a criticism of JF's throw, its that he could have put more air under the ball instead of such a flat throw. A better criticism might be that the GM has tanked the team around JF, so you get what you get

[Hairyducked Idiot]

What's Fields supposed to do? Catch the ball for the receivers as well?

how

 

that was Fields worst throw of the night, and it wasn't only bad because the TE he was throwing to shouldn't be in the NFL. If there is a criticism of JF's throw, its that he could have put more air under the ball instead of such a flat throw. A better criticism might be that the GM has tanked the team around JF, so you get what you get

 

He had some other candidates for worst throw. There was one in the red zone that landed in front of the WR. There was the one in our own zone that hit a DB in the hands as he was sliding. There was the one that plunked straight off a DL's helmet.

[UMFan83]

Zombie deadspin: https://deadspin.com/justin-fields-and-a-tale-of-two-halves-1849658066

 

The second play resulted in an incompletion and more or less gave the game to Washington, until Commanders kicker Joey Slye hooked the field goal that would’ve iced it. However, the incompletion wasn’t Fields’ fault. The protection from the O-line was good, but more importantly, Fields showed situational awareness. First-half Fields would’ve spent all day waiting for the routes to develop on his right side. It was a deep route that looked like an inside fade coupled with a deep curl, but obviously, I can’t be sure since I don’t have the all-22 footage. Second-half Fields understood that since the Commanders were running Cover 2 man with a QB spy and the Bears were running a play with only one in-breaking route, the middle of the field was going to be wide open for Ihmir Smith-Marsette. Smith-Marsette even got inside leverage on his defender off the release. Even with only a step-and-a-half on the corner, covering this was a sure bet unless the left-side safety Darrick Forrest came up, but Forrest was so far back, Smith-Marsette would’ve had tons of open field to get the first.

 

Smith-Marsette dropped the pass. You could tell he was frustrated with himself. It was a perfect read from Fields, who made the throw the moment after Smith-Marsette cut inside. Fields diagnosed the defense at the snap, and dropped a dot. Unfortunately, nothing came of it.

[Old Style]

Zombie deadspin: https://deadspin.com/justin-fields-and-a-tale-of-two-halves-1849658066

 

The second play resulted in an incompletion and more or less gave the game to Washington, until Commanders kicker Joey Slye hooked the field goal that would’ve iced it. However, the incompletion wasn’t Fields’ fault. The protection from the O-line was good, but more importantly, Fields showed situational awareness. First-half Fields would’ve spent all day waiting for the routes to develop on his right side. It was a deep route that looked like an inside fade coupled with a deep curl, but obviously, I can’t be sure since I don’t have the all-22 footage. Second-half Fields understood that since the Commanders were running Cover 2 man with a QB spy and the Bears were running a play with only one in-breaking route, the middle of the field was going to be wide open for Ihmir Smith-Marsette. Smith-Marsette even got inside leverage on his defender off the release. Even with only a step-and-a-half on the corner, covering this was a sure bet unless the left-side safety Darrick Forrest came up, but Forrest was so far back, Smith-Marsette would’ve had tons of open field to get the first.

 

Smith-Marsette dropped the pass. You could tell he was frustrated with himself. It was a perfect read from Fields, who made the throw the moment after Smith-Marsette cut inside. Fields diagnosed the defense at the snap, and dropped a dot. Unfortunately, nothing came of it.

Even if that FG is made that would not have "iced" the game. It would have given WAS an 8-point lead. That's still a one score game.

[minnesotacubsfan]

how

 

that was Fields worst throw of the night, and it wasn't only bad because the TE he was throwing to shouldn't be in the NFL. If there is a criticism of JF's throw, its that he could have put more air under the ball instead of such a flat throw. A better criticism might be that the GM has tanked the team around JF, so you get what you get

 

He had some other candidates for worst throw. There was one in the red zone that landed in front of the WR. There was the one in our own zone that hit a DB in the hands as he was sliding. There was the one that plunked straight off a DL's helmet.

The one that hit the DL's helmet was 100% on Patrick's shitty block, and probably why pff scored him in single digits for the night

[Have a seat, Neifi]

Thought that Fields was horrific in the first half and generally better in the second half, though he still missed a few open throws and doesn't always seem to scan the whole field before picking a target (I'm thinking specifically of Montgomery's wheel route on the left-hand side of the field during the last drive, which Fields never even saw).

 

I am and have been a pretty big Fields skeptic, but last night was probably the strongest evidence in favor of placing the blame primarily on the offensive line and wide receivers. They were awful. Last night was the closest thing to an "organizational failure" as a single game can be. Fields was bad, but honestly the offensive line and wide receivers legitimately were worse. It was honestly stunning.

 

If you put a gun to my head and asked me to predict Fields' career, I don't think he ever turns into "the guy." He's just so raw at reading defenses pre- and post-snap and seeing the whole field that I simply can't get there. But this has to be the worst "situation" from a developmental standpoint I can imagine. I was in awe last night of how bad our O line and WRs were. Fields may or may not ever turn into a top-half NFL quarterback, but this simply cannot be the best way to try and answer that question.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

 

that was Fields worst throw of the night, and it wasn't only bad because the TE he was throwing to shouldn't be in the NFL. If there is a criticism of JF's throw, its that he could have put more air under the ball instead of such a flat throw. A better criticism might be that the GM has tanked the team around JF, so you get what you get

 

He had some other candidates for worst throw. There was one in the red zone that landed in front of the WR. There was the one in our own zone that hit a DB in the hands as he was sliding. There was the one that plunked straight off a DL's helmet.

The one that hit the DL's helmet was 100% on Patrick's horsefeathers block, and probably why pff scored him in single digits for the night

 

It's uncanny how it's never, ever Fields' fault.

[Have a seat, Neifi]

 

He had some other candidates for worst throw. There was one in the red zone that landed in front of the WR. There was the one in our own zone that hit a DB in the hands as he was sliding. There was the one that plunked straight off a DL's helmet.

The one that hit the DL's helmet was 100% on Patrick's horsefeathers block, and probably why pff scored him in single digits for the night

 

It's uncanny how it's never, ever Fields' fault.

Yea, the helmet throw was 100% on Fields. Not sure how that's even arguable.

[raw]

At the very least they could end the Smith-Marsette and Pettis experiments and give those snaps to Jones Jr. and Harry. Also, go more play-action on first down, some more of the quick passes and screens they did yesterday, more rollouts etc. Whether they want to admit it or not, the starting point/assumption is the line cannot pass block, they'll be pressure on every passing attempt so, if possible, find something that Fields and, mainly, the receivers can execute. Sounds near impossible, there's got to be something that can be exploited, I think.

 

I think this will happen. But it remains to be seen if they'll be any different. Jones Jr has played 3 games, and the only things he's done is run endarounds and WR screens....which was basically all he did in college. Harry has not consistently separated at the NFL level, which is the same problem everyone else in this offense has save from Mooney on occasion.

[raw]

The one that hit the DL's helmet was 100% on Patrick's horsefeathers block, and probably why pff scored him in single digits for the night

 

It's uncanny how it's never, ever Fields' fault.

Yea, the helmet throw was 100% on Fields. Not sure how that's even arguable.

 

My first thought live was, "damn, what dumb luck that the ball gets tipped up that high in that spot". But seeing the replay, I have no idea how a 6'3" QB thinks he's going to throw the ball over a 6'5" DT with a release at 5'11". Just a ridiculously bad arm angle attempt.

[gflore34]

Thought that Fields was horrific in the first half and generally better in the second half, though he still missed a few open throws and doesn't always seem to scan the whole field before picking a target (I'm thinking specifically of Montgomery's wheel route on the left-hand side of the field during the last drive, which Fields never even saw).

 

I am and have been a pretty big Fields skeptic, but last night was probably the strongest evidence in favor of placing the blame primarily on the offensive line and wide receivers. They were awful. Last night was the closest thing to an "organizational failure" as a single game can be. Fields was bad, but honestly the offensive line and wide receivers legitimately were worse. It was honestly stunning.

 

If you put a gun to my head and asked me to predict Fields' career, I don't think he ever turns into "the guy." He's just so raw at reading defenses pre- and post-snap and seeing the whole field that I simply can't get there. But this has to be the worst "situation" from a developmental standpoint I can imagine. I was in awe last night of how bad our O line and WRs were. Fields may or may not ever turn into a top-half NFL quarterback, but this simply cannot be the best way to try and answer that question.

 

 

Maybe seeing Montgomery takes some time, which, nearly half the time, Fields doesn't have, don't how you can properly evaluate a QB under those conditions. Pressure is a QB's kryptonite no matter who that happens to be, Rodgers, Mahomes et. al. are terrible, fail to see open receivers with lineman constantly in their faces.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Thought that Fields was horrific in the first half and generally better in the second half, though he still missed a few open throws and doesn't always seem to scan the whole field before picking a target (I'm thinking specifically of Montgomery's wheel route on the left-hand side of the field during the last drive, which Fields never even saw).

 

I am and have been a pretty big Fields skeptic, but last night was probably the strongest evidence in favor of placing the blame primarily on the offensive line and wide receivers. They were awful. Last night was the closest thing to an "organizational failure" as a single game can be. Fields was bad, but honestly the offensive line and wide receivers legitimately were worse. It was honestly stunning.

 

If you put a gun to my head and asked me to predict Fields' career, I don't think he ever turns into "the guy." He's just so raw at reading defenses pre- and post-snap and seeing the whole field that I simply can't get there. But this has to be the worst "situation" from a developmental standpoint I can imagine. I was in awe last night of how bad our O line and WRs were. Fields may or may not ever turn into a top-half NFL quarterback, but this simply cannot be the best way to try and answer that question.

 

 

Maybe seeing Montgomery takes some time, which, nearly half the time, Fields doesn't have, don't how you can properly evaluate a QB under those conditions. Pressure is a QB's kryptonite no matter who that happens to be, Rodgers, Mahomes et. al. are terrible, fail to see open receivers with lineman constantly in their faces.

 

Occasionally, he has plays without pressure. Not as often as he should, but sometimes. And on those plays, he frequently looks bad.

[WrigleyField 22]

Thought that Fields was horrific in the first half and generally better in the second half, though he still missed a few open throws and doesn't always seem to scan the whole field before picking a target (I'm thinking specifically of Montgomery's wheel route on the left-hand side of the field during the last drive, which Fields never even saw).

 

I am and have been a pretty big Fields skeptic, but last night was probably the strongest evidence in favor of placing the blame primarily on the offensive line and wide receivers. They were awful. Last night was the closest thing to an "organizational failure" as a single game can be. Fields was bad, but honestly the offensive line and wide receivers legitimately were worse. It was honestly stunning.

 

If you put a gun to my head and asked me to predict Fields' career, I don't think he ever turns into "the guy." He's just so raw at reading defenses pre- and post-snap and seeing the whole field that I simply can't get there. But this has to be the worst "situation" from a developmental standpoint I can imagine. I was in awe last night of how bad our O line and WRs were. Fields may or may not ever turn into a top-half NFL quarterback, but this simply cannot be the best way to try and answer that question.

 

 

Maybe seeing Montgomery takes some time, which, nearly half the time, Fields doesn't have, don't how you can properly evaluate a QB under those conditions. Pressure is a QB's kryptonite no matter who that happens to be, Rodgers, Mahomes et. al. are terrible, fail to see open receivers with lineman constantly in their faces.

 

Occasionally, he has plays without pressure. Not as often as he should, but sometimes. And on those plays, he frequently looks bad.

Pretty sure the EPA/play stats disagree with your assessment of how he does when he has time, but maybe I'm analyzing the data wrong from what I've seen.

[WrigleyField 22]

"hey he's actually just doing what Ryan pace would do" is not a great defense of a GM

Easy comp because it's both Bears GMs, but obviously the general point being that most first year GMs taking over rebuilding teams is basically a pointless eval year. Tankity tank. He's accomplishing that.

 

And not to defend Pace per se, but his *actual* issues that did him in, verse what the standard fan acts like he was couldn't be further disconnected, anyways, IMO.

 

I like the fact that Poles recognized we needed to tear down the roster and rebuild

 

I hate what he began building

You mean... nothing?

 

If you count Mack trade as part of the tear down part, that was really the only major move he made. Nothing else was a significant part of building. There's basically no building move to grade or opine on (at least player wise. I guess you could opine on coaching staff, mostly Eberflus).

 

Presumably those start coming in 2023.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Easy comp because it's both Bears GMs, but obviously the general point being that most first year GMs taking over rebuilding teams is basically a pointless eval year. Tankity tank. He's accomplishing that.

 

And not to defend Pace per se, but his *actual* issues that did him in, verse what the standard fan acts like he was couldn't be further disconnected, anyways, IMO.

 

I like the fact that Poles recognized we needed to tear down the roster and rebuild

 

I hate what he began building

You mean... nothing?

 

If you count Mack trade as part of the tear down part, that was really the only major move he made. Nothing else was a significant part of building. There's basically no building move to grade or opine on (at least player wise. I guess you could opine on coaching staff, mostly Eberflus).

 

Presumably those start coming in 2023.

 

He had an entire draft and free agency period to start establishing what kind of players he wanted and what kind of team he was building toward.

[gflore34]

 

 

Maybe seeing Montgomery takes some time, which, nearly half the time, Fields doesn't have, don't how you can properly evaluate a QB under those conditions. Pressure is a QB's kryptonite no matter who that happens to be, Rodgers, Mahomes et. al. are terrible, fail to see open receivers with lineman constantly in their faces.

 

Occasionally, he has plays without pressure. Not as often as he should, but sometimes. And on those plays, he frequently looks bad.

Pretty sure the EPA/play stats disagree with your assessment of how he does when he has time, but maybe I'm analyzing the data wrong from what I've seen.

 

Cannot recall the post however, was there not some statistics of his rating being over 100.0 when given a clean pocket or no pressure? How can that be frequently bad?

[WrigleyField 22]

 

I like the fact that Poles recognized we needed to tear down the roster and rebuild

 

I hate what he began building

You mean... nothing?

 

If you count Mack trade as part of the tear down part, that was really the only major move he made. Nothing else was a significant part of building. There's basically no building move to grade or opine on (at least player wise. I guess you could opine on coaching staff, mostly Eberflus).

 

Presumably those start coming in 2023.

 

He had an entire draft and free agency period to start establishing what kind of players he wanted and what kind of team he was building toward.

His free agency was indicative of he wanting to wait a year mostly. Maybe grade him on intent of Ogunjobi, but since it actually didn't go through I'll give him a break. Again tankity tank.

 

Not sure what the issue with the draft is. Lacking a scenario like spending a top 20 pick on a guard or something... It was fine. Grade the outcome in 2 years, but the design/approach was fine from a rebuilding perspective. (I'm on the side that they shouldn't have forced any position in the draft for Fields-that's what FA was for, but I think in this context we're trying to establish general team building philosophy, not "how he supported Fields).

 

What was your issue with the draft?

[WrigleyField 22]

 

Occasionally, he has plays without pressure. Not as often as he should, but sometimes. And on those plays, he frequently looks bad.

Pretty sure the EPA/play stats disagree with your assessment of how he does when he has time, but maybe I'm analyzing the data wrong from what I've seen.

 

Cannot recall the post however, was there not some statistics of his rating being over 100.0 when given a clean pocket or no pressure? How can that be frequently bad?

I'm not super anti-passer rating, but it does have its shortcomings, and it's biggest shortcoming I think particularly has a blind spot to use for the Bears/Fields, which is sacks.

 

Still I thought more comprehensive stats/grades like EPA or PFF grade showed he has done really well when not pressured (obviously everyone does better, but particularly so in this case).

[Hairyducked Idiot]

You mean... nothing?

 

If you count Mack trade as part of the tear down part, that was really the only major move he made. Nothing else was a significant part of building. There's basically no building move to grade or opine on (at least player wise. I guess you could opine on coaching staff, mostly Eberflus).

 

Presumably those start coming in 2023.

 

He had an entire draft and free agency period to start establishing what kind of players he wanted and what kind of team he was building toward.

His free agency was indicative of he wanting to wait a year mostly. Maybe grade him on intent of Ogunjobi, but since it actually didn't go through I'll give him a break. Again tankity tank.

 

Not sure what the issue with the draft is. Lacking a scenario like spending a top 20 pick on a guard or something... It was fine. Grade the outcome in 2 years, but the design/approach was fine from a rebuilding perspective. (I'm on the side that they shouldn't have forced any position in the draft for Fields-that's what FA was for, but I think in this context we're trying to establish general team building philosophy, not "how he supported Fields).

 

What was your issue with the draft?

 

DB-DB-KR-value OL is a disastrous draft from a long-term standpoint. I don't want value OL, I want OL in the top two rounds. I don't want a gadget player when we don't have WR1-3 in place. And I definitely don't want our first two picks to be defense.

 

Even your first draft, you're establishing which positions you think are high-priority and which ones you can try to get cheap with. I hate his choices.

[gflore34]

 

He had an entire draft and free agency period to start establishing what kind of players he wanted and what kind of team he was building toward.

His free agency was indicative of he wanting to wait a year mostly. Maybe grade him on intent of Ogunjobi, but since it actually didn't go through I'll give him a break. Again tankity tank.

 

Not sure what the issue with the draft is. Lacking a scenario like spending a top 20 pick on a guard or something... It was fine. Grade the outcome in 2 years, but the design/approach was fine from a rebuilding perspective. (I'm on the side that they shouldn't have forced any position in the draft for Fields-that's what FA was for, but I think in this context we're trying to establish general team building philosophy, not "how he supported Fields).

 

What was your issue with the draft?

 

DB-DB-KR-value OL is a disastrous draft from a long-term standpoint. I don't want value OL, I want OL in the top two rounds. I don't want a gadget player when we don't have WR1-3 in place. And I definitely don't want our first two picks to be defense.

 

Even your first draft, you're establishing which positions you think are high-priority and which ones you can try to get cheap with. I hate his choices.

 

I to very much disliked the defense, defense nonsense in this year's draft, next year he's got no excuse to keep from trying to load up on offense, be it in the draft or FA. Meaning I'm willing to give him another shot in 2023. However, if that horsefeathers goes DL with a quite probable top 5 pick without first addressing C and the OL in FA - I'm done with him.

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

It's uncanny how it's never, ever Fields' fault.

Yea, the helmet throw was 100% on Fields. Not sure how that's even arguable.

 

My first thought live was, "damn, what dumb luck that the ball gets tipped up that high in that spot". But seeing the replay, I have no idea how a 6'3" QB thinks he's going to throw the ball over a 6'5" DT with a release at 5'11". Just a ridiculously bad arm angle attempt.

 

heres a view of it from the endzone, he's got Kmet in the middle with pretty close coverage, and had he not hit the commanders helmet, would likely have hit Kmet in the numbers. it wasnt a stupid throw, believe it or not;. If he lofts this, its likely picked

 

 

Patrick and SM both get stood straight up and blown back several yards on the play. Washingtons DL played it exactly the way they should have. It was a predictable outcome and not a great play design by Getsy