Bears week 6: Commanders on Thursday night

[minnesotacubsfan]

His free agency was indicative of he wanting to wait a year mostly. Maybe grade him on intent of Ogunjobi, but since it actually didn't go through I'll give him a break. Again tankity tank.

 

Not sure what the issue with the draft is. Lacking a scenario like spending a top 20 pick on a guard or something... It was fine. Grade the outcome in 2 years, but the design/approach was fine from a rebuilding perspective. (I'm on the side that they shouldn't have forced any position in the draft for Fields-that's what FA was for, but I think in this context we're trying to establish general team building philosophy, not "how he supported Fields).

 

What was your issue with the draft?

 

DB-DB-KR-value OL is a disastrous draft from a long-term standpoint. I don't want value OL, I want OL in the top two rounds. I don't want a gadget player when we don't have WR1-3 in place. And I definitely don't want our first two picks to be defense.

 

Even your first draft, you're establishing which positions you think are high-priority and which ones you can try to get cheap with. I hate his choices.

 

I to very much disliked the defense, defense nonsense in this year's draft, next year he's got no excuse to keep from trying to load up on offense, be it in the draft or FA. Meaning I'm willing to give him another shot in 2023. However, if that horsefeathers goes DL with a quite probable top 5 pick without first addressing C and the OL in FA - I'm done with him.

 

I understand this especially since he had no rd 1 pick this past year, but he still could have done much more (or much less in the Daniels case) this past offseason

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Yea, the helmet throw was 100% on Fields. Not sure how that's even arguable.

 

My first thought live was, "damn, what dumb luck that the ball gets tipped up that high in that spot". But seeing the replay, I have no idea how a 6'3" QB thinks he's going to throw the ball over a 6'5" DT with a release at 5'11". Just a ridiculously bad arm angle attempt.

 

heres a view of it from the endzone, he's got Kmet in the middle with pretty close coverage, and had he not hit the commanders helmet, would likely have hit Kmet in the numbers. it wasnt a stupid throw, believe it or not;. If he lofts this, its likely picked

 

 

Patrick and SM both get stood straight up and blown back several yards on the play. Washingtons DL played it exactly the way they should have. It was a predictable outcome and not a great play design by Getsy

 

I think the point is not that Fields should have lofted it, but in that situation you need to be able to throw a strike that isn't released below your own helmet level, because that outcome is exactly what can happen.

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

My first thought live was, "damn, what dumb luck that the ball gets tipped up that high in that spot". But seeing the replay, I have no idea how a 6'3" QB thinks he's going to throw the ball over a 6'5" DT with a release at 5'11". Just a ridiculously bad arm angle attempt.

 

heres a view of it from the endzone, he's got Kmet in the middle with pretty close coverage, and had he not hit the commanders helmet, would likely have hit Kmet in the numbers. it wasnt a stupid throw, believe it or not;. If he lofts this, its likely picked

 

 

Patrick and SM both get stood straight up and blown back several yards on the play. Washingtons DL played it exactly the way they should have. It was a predictable outcome and not a great play design by Getsy

 

I think the point is not that Fields should have lofted it, but in that situation you need to be able to throw a strike that isn't released below your own helmet level, because that outcome is exactly what can happen.

 

 

nah, he cant throw it high, Mooney and his defender is behind Kmet, if Kmet misses it high its likely int as well. The ball is released at the top of Fields helmet, he didnt side-arm it. if he comes directly over the top and it sails, its an int.

 

its a bad play design down in the red zone when you interior o-line is consistently creating the Great Wall of Midway in front of you

[David]

[WrigleyField 22]

 

He had an entire draft and free agency period to start establishing what kind of players he wanted and what kind of team he was building toward.

His free agency was indicative of he wanting to wait a year mostly. Maybe grade him on intent of Ogunjobi, but since it actually didn't go through I'll give him a break. Again tankity tank.

 

Not sure what the issue with the draft is. Lacking a scenario like spending a top 20 pick on a guard or something... It was fine. Grade the outcome in 2 years, but the design/approach was fine from a rebuilding perspective. (I'm on the side that they shouldn't have forced any position in the draft for Fields-that's what FA was for, but I think in this context we're trying to establish general team building philosophy, not "how he supported Fields).

 

What was your issue with the draft?

 

DB-DB-KR-value OL is a disastrous draft from a long-term standpoint. I don't want value OL, I want OL in the top two rounds. I don't want a gadget player when we don't have WR1-3 in place. And I definitely don't want our first two picks to be defense.

 

Even your first draft, you're establishing which positions you think are high-priority and which ones you can try to get cheap with. I hate his choices.

Yea there really isn't a good justification for any of those takes, other than perhaps being a traumatized Bears fan.

[UMFan83]

Thought that Fields was horrific in the first half and generally better in the second half, though he still missed a few open throws and doesn't always seem to scan the whole field before picking a target (I'm thinking specifically of Montgomery's wheel route on the left-hand side of the field during the last drive, which Fields never even saw).

 

 

I am assuming this is the wheel route you're referring to, the last play of the game. Fields said that Montgomery was his 5th read on the play and there's only like a 5% chance he gets to the point where he's looking his way. Here is a breakdown of the play with the person arguing Fields made the correct read and throw. Mooney ran a short route (should have been in the end zone not barely on there), and should have caught it. Fields recognized man to man isolated on the right side and threw it to a position where he had his hands on the ball at the goal line.

 

[minnesotacubsfan]

Thought that Fields was horrific in the first half and generally better in the second half, though he still missed a few open throws and doesn't always seem to scan the whole field before picking a target (I'm thinking specifically of Montgomery's wheel route on the left-hand side of the field during the last drive, which Fields never even saw).

 

 

I am assuming this is the wheel route you're referring to, the last play of the game. Fields said that Montgomery was his 5th read on the play and there's only like a 5% chance he gets to the point where he's looking his way. Here is a breakdown of the play with the person arguing Fields made the correct read and throw. Mooney ran a short route (should have been in the end zone not barely on there), and should have caught it. Fields recognized man to man isolated on the right side and threw it to a position where he had his hands on the ball at the goal line.

 

 

yea, this is one of those "run routes short of the goaline" calls I hate. its 4th down, every route except is last check down should have been IN the endzone

[Hairyducked Idiot]

His free agency was indicative of he wanting to wait a year mostly. Maybe grade him on intent of Ogunjobi, but since it actually didn't go through I'll give him a break. Again tankity tank.

 

Not sure what the issue with the draft is. Lacking a scenario like spending a top 20 pick on a guard or something... It was fine. Grade the outcome in 2 years, but the design/approach was fine from a rebuilding perspective. (I'm on the side that they shouldn't have forced any position in the draft for Fields-that's what FA was for, but I think in this context we're trying to establish general team building philosophy, not "how he supported Fields).

 

What was your issue with the draft?

 

DB-DB-KR-value OL is a disastrous draft from a long-term standpoint. I don't want value OL, I want OL in the top two rounds. I don't want a gadget player when we don't have WR1-3 in place. And I definitely don't want our first two picks to be defense.

 

Even your first draft, you're establishing which positions you think are high-priority and which ones you can try to get cheap with. I hate his choices.

Yea there really isn't a good justification for any of those takes, other than perhaps being a traumatized Bears fan.

 

Weird how I said that exactly what has happened would happen then

[raw]

 

My first thought live was, "damn, what dumb luck that the ball gets tipped up that high in that spot". But seeing the replay, I have no idea how a 6'3" QB thinks he's going to throw the ball over a 6'5" DT with a release at 5'11". Just a ridiculously bad arm angle attempt.

 

heres a view of it from the endzone, he's got Kmet in the middle with pretty close coverage, and had he not hit the commanders helmet, would likely have hit Kmet in the numbers. it wasnt a stupid throw, believe it or not;. If he lofts this, its likely picked

 

 

Patrick and SM both get stood straight up and blown back several yards on the play. Washingtons DL played it exactly the way they should have. It was a predictable outcome and not a great play design by Getsy

 

I think the point is not that Fields should have lofted it, but in that situation you need to be able to throw a strike that isn't released below your own helmet level, because that outcome is exactly what can happen.

 

Yes, I thought I was clear that I was calling his arm angle bad, not the throw or the read. He simply can't release a ball that low, especially near the goaline and he did it again later in the game (though that was more of a good play by the DL). If you hit an outstretched hand of a 6'5" dude with 34" arms, that's bad luck/good timing by the DL. But if you hit him in the helmet, that's a bad release.

[WrigleyField 22]

 

DB-DB-KR-value OL is a disastrous draft from a long-term standpoint. I don't want value OL, I want OL in the top two rounds. I don't want a gadget player when we don't have WR1-3 in place. And I definitely don't want our first two picks to be defense.

 

Even your first draft, you're establishing which positions you think are high-priority and which ones you can try to get cheap with. I hate his choices.

Yea there really isn't a good justification for any of those takes, other than perhaps being a traumatized Bears fan.

 

Weird how I said that exactly what has happened would happen then

I don't know what that is in reference to even, or why it would matter. You're saying you predicted his actions or something?

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

DB-DB-KR-value OL is a disastrous draft from a long-term standpoint. I don't want value OL, I want OL in the top two rounds. I don't want a gadget player when we don't have WR1-3 in place. And I definitely don't want our first two picks to be defense.

 

Even your first draft, you're establishing which positions you think are high-priority and which ones you can try to get cheap with. I hate his choices.

Yea there really isn't a good justification for any of those takes, other than perhaps being a traumatized Bears fan.

 

Weird how I said that exactly what has happened would happen then

 

I dont think the book is written on Gordan and Brisker yet, so you cant say they were busts, even as often as I could get frustrated with Gordan myself. I do share your frustration on not drafting a WR in the 2nd.

[raw]

Thought that Fields was horrific in the first half and generally better in the second half, though he still missed a few open throws and doesn't always seem to scan the whole field before picking a target (I'm thinking specifically of Montgomery's wheel route on the left-hand side of the field during the last drive, which Fields never even saw).

 

 

I am assuming this is the wheel route you're referring to, the last play of the game. Fields said that Montgomery was his 5th read on the play and there's only like a 5% chance he gets to the point where he's looking his way. Here is a breakdown of the play with the person arguing Fields made the correct read and throw. Mooney ran a short route (should have been in the end zone not barely on there), and should have caught it. Fields recognized man to man isolated on the right side and threw it to a position where he had his hands on the ball at the goal line.

 

 

yea, this is one of those "run routes short of the goaline" calls I hate. its 4th down, every route except is last check down should have been IN the endzone

 

Eh. It's fine. Mooney catches the ball cleanly it's a TD. It didn't require him to break any tackles to score. No reason to limit yourself to inside the end zone when you just have to break the plane. The further in the endzone you are, the smaller it gets.

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

heres a view of it from the endzone, he's got Kmet in the middle with pretty close coverage, and had he not hit the commanders helmet, would likely have hit Kmet in the numbers. it wasnt a stupid throw, believe it or not;. If he lofts this, its likely picked

 

 

Patrick and SM both get stood straight up and blown back several yards on the play. Washingtons DL played it exactly the way they should have. It was a predictable outcome and not a great play design by Getsy

 

I think the point is not that Fields should have lofted it, but in that situation you need to be able to throw a strike that isn't released below your own helmet level, because that outcome is exactly what can happen.

 

Yes, I thought I was clear that I was calling his arm angle bad, not the throw or the read. He simply can't release a ball that low, especially near the goaline and he did it again later in the game (though that was more of a good play by the DL). If you hit an outstretched hand of a 6'5" dude with 34" arms, that's bad luck/good timing by the DL. But if you hit him in the helmet, that's a bad release.

 

 

I disagree. hes throwing to Kmet on the under route, he cant lob it and he cant high-point it. It was either a bad decision (which I'm not sure about) or a bad play design/call (which seems most likely)

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

I am assuming this is the wheel route you're referring to, the last play of the game. Fields said that Montgomery was his 5th read on the play and there's only like a 5% chance he gets to the point where he's looking his way. Here is a breakdown of the play with the person arguing Fields made the correct read and throw. Mooney ran a short route (should have been in the end zone not barely on there), and should have caught it. Fields recognized man to man isolated on the right side and threw it to a position where he had his hands on the ball at the goal line.

 

 

yea, this is one of those "run routes short of the goaline" calls I hate. its 4th down, every route except is last check down should have been IN the endzone

 

Eh. It's fine. Mooney catches the ball cleanly it's a TD. It didn't require him to break any tackles to score. No reason to limit yourself to inside the end zone when you just have to break the plane. The further in the endzone you are, the smaller it gets.

 

 

it was forth down, and they dont completely limit themselves since they still had Monty out of the backfield. Fields never would have had the time to get to Monty, but that's your pitch/catch/and run to the end zone route, not your designed first read

[raw]

 

I think the point is not that Fields should have lofted it, but in that situation you need to be able to throw a strike that isn't released below your own helmet level, because that outcome is exactly what can happen.

 

Yes, I thought I was clear that I was calling his arm angle bad, not the throw or the read. He simply can't release a ball that low, especially near the goaline and he did it again later in the game (though that was more of a good play by the DL). If you hit an outstretched hand of a 6'5" dude with 34" arms, that's bad luck/good timing by the DL. But if you hit him in the helmet, that's a bad release.

 

 

I disagree. hes throwing to Kmet on the under route, he cant lob it and he cant high-point it. It was either a bad decision (which I'm not sure about) or a bad play design/call (which seems most likely)

 

Why are you talking about lobs and high-points? I didn't say horsefeathers about lobbing or throwing the ball high. Just releasing the ball high. Think sidearm pitcher vs. an over the top delivery. You can throw fastballs for every arm angle. Just like you can throw a football accurately and with velocity from any arm angle. He went with the 3/4 delivery when it should have been over the top.

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

Yes, I thought I was clear that I was calling his arm angle bad, not the throw or the read. He simply can't release a ball that low, especially near the goaline and he did it again later in the game (though that was more of a good play by the DL). If you hit an outstretched hand of a 6'5" dude with 34" arms, that's bad luck/good timing by the DL. But if you hit him in the helmet, that's a bad release.

 

 

I disagree. hes throwing to Kmet on the under route, he cant lob it and he cant high-point it. It was either a bad decision (which I'm not sure about) or a bad play design/call (which seems most likely)

 

Why are you talking about lobs and high-points? I didn't say horsefeathers about lobbing or throwing the ball high. Just releasing the ball high. Think sidearm pitcher vs. an over the top delivery. You can throw fastballs for every arm angle. Just like you can throw a football accurately and with velocity from any arm angle. He went with the 3/4 delivery when it should have been over the top.

 

my point about not lobbing or high-pointing the throw is about the play design, I didn't say you were making that argument. He's got one throw he can make to Kmet safely, and he likely threw it from an arm slot that felt the most comfortable to him. He didnt side arm it as you suggest in your baseball analogy, the release point is at the top of his helmet - farther up then 3/4.

 

But theres also the issue of the play call. Getsy has to understand the players he has. He has to understand that his o-lineman are terrible pass blockers up the middle and either wiff or become statues far too often. He also has to understand that Justin Fields inst Peyton Manning and isnt going to stand as tall as he possibly can in the pocket while throwing directly over the top of 6'-5" guys. Why call a play that requires JF to do something he just doesn't seem to be geared up or built to do?

[gflore34]

 

yea, this is one of those "run routes short of the goaline" calls I hate. its 4th down, every route except is last check down should have been IN the endzone

 

Eh. It's fine. Mooney catches the ball cleanly it's a TD. It didn't require him to break any tackles to score. No reason to limit yourself to inside the end zone when you just have to break the plane. The further in the endzone you are, the smaller it gets.

 

 

it was forth down, and they dont completely limit themselves since they still had Monty out of the backfield. Fields never would have had the time to get to Monty, but that's your pitch/catch/and run to the end zone route, not your designed first read

 

You can't blame Fields for this one, it's all Mooney, he had two hands on the ball and still couldn't catch it cleanly, should have been a TD period.

[gflore34]

 

 

I disagree. hes throwing to Kmet on the under route, he cant lob it and he cant high-point it. It was either a bad decision (which I'm not sure about) or a bad play design/call (which seems most likely)

 

Why are you talking about lobs and high-points? I didn't say horsefeathers about lobbing or throwing the ball high. Just releasing the ball high. Think sidearm pitcher vs. an over the top delivery. You can throw fastballs for every arm angle. Just like you can throw a football accurately and with velocity from any arm angle. He went with the 3/4 delivery when it should have been over the top.

 

my point about not lobbing or high-pointing the throw is about the play design, I didn't say you were making that argument. He's got one throw he can make to Kmet safely, and he likely threw it from an arm slot that felt the most comfortable to him. He didnt side arm it as you suggest in your baseball analogy, the release point is at the top of his helmet - farther up then 3/4.

 

But theres also the issue of the play call. Getsy has to understand the players he has. He has to understand that his o-lineman are terrible pass blockers up the middle and either wiff or become statues far too often. He also has to understand that Justin Fields inst Peyton Manning and isnt going to stand as tall as he possibly can in the pocket while throwing directly over the top of 6'-5" guys. Why call a play that requires JF to do something he just doesn't seem to be geared up or built to do?

 

You to assume, on every passing attempt, if not outright sacked, the DL is going to get penetration, given this you've got to design a play that'll afford Fields some passing lanes.

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

Why are you talking about lobs and high-points? I didn't say horsefeathers about lobbing or throwing the ball high. Just releasing the ball high. Think sidearm pitcher vs. an over the top delivery. You can throw fastballs for every arm angle. Just like you can throw a football accurately and with velocity from any arm angle. He went with the 3/4 delivery when it should have been over the top.

 

my point about not lobbing or high-pointing the throw is about the play design, I didn't say you were making that argument. He's got one throw he can make to Kmet safely, and he likely threw it from an arm slot that felt the most comfortable to him. He didnt side arm it as you suggest in your baseball analogy, the release point is at the top of his helmet - farther up then 3/4.

 

But theres also the issue of the play call. Getsy has to understand the players he has. He has to understand that his o-lineman are terrible pass blockers up the middle and either wiff or become statues far too often. He also has to understand that Justin Fields inst Peyton Manning and isnt going to stand as tall as he possibly can in the pocket while throwing directly over the top of 6'-5" guys. Why call a play that requires JF to do something he just doesn't seem to be geared up or built to do?

 

You to assume, on every passing attempt, if not outright sacked, the DL is going to get penetration, given this you've got to design a play that'll afford Fields some passing lanes.

 

exactly, or bootlegs/option sets. Something to give Fields a chance to avoid the DL push

[gflore34]

 

my point about not lobbing or high-pointing the throw is about the play design, I didn't say you were making that argument. He's got one throw he can make to Kmet safely, and he likely threw it from an arm slot that felt the most comfortable to him. He didnt side arm it as you suggest in your baseball analogy, the release point is at the top of his helmet - farther up then 3/4.

 

But theres also the issue of the play call. Getsy has to understand the players he has. He has to understand that his o-lineman are terrible pass blockers up the middle and either wiff or become statues far too often. He also has to understand that Justin Fields inst Peyton Manning and isnt going to stand as tall as he possibly can in the pocket while throwing directly over the top of 6'-5" guys. Why call a play that requires JF to do something he just doesn't seem to be geared up or built to do?

 

You to assume, on every passing attempt, if not outright sacked, the DL is going to get penetration, given this you've got to design a play that'll afford Fields some passing lanes.

 

exactly, or bootlegs/option sets. Something to give Fields a chance to avoid the DL push

 

From this point Getsy and Fields have to start with the premise that pass protection is non-existent, it's a shitty way to look at, not showing faith in your teammates and all. It does make practical sense, there's no other approach.

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

Eh. It's fine. Mooney catches the ball cleanly it's a TD. It didn't require him to break any tackles to score. No reason to limit yourself to inside the end zone when you just have to break the plane. The further in the endzone you are, the smaller it gets.

 

 

it was forth down, and they dont completely limit themselves since they still had Monty out of the backfield. Fields never would have had the time to get to Monty, but that's your pitch/catch/and run to the end zone route, not your designed first read

 

You can't blame Fields for this one, it's all Mooney, he had two hands on the ball and still couldn't catch it cleanly, should have been a TD period.

 

i suppose Mooney could have run his route more shallow then intended, but I tend to think it was a designed 3 yard hitch and that is just too shallow of a primary route when its 4th and 1 and the game is on the line. At least for the primary read and likely the 2nd read as well. Having Monty in the flats is a better bet to run to the endzone. Why in that sequence they never tried to let Fields break for the corner pylon on an earlier down is beyond me

[WrigleyField 22]

From this point Getsy and Fields have to start with the premise that pass protection is non-existent, it's a horsefeathers way to look at, not showing faith in your teammates and all. It does make practical sense, there's no other approach.

Yep.

 

You can run your full pass scheme only on 1st and 10. Any other time you want to pass its 90% two route concepts with a checkdown and maybe another chip option. Everyone else has to block.

 

Then turn those two route concepts into pure progression quick reads for Fields. And just do that over and over to try and speed up his initial play speed through 2 reads. Make sure he practices his sliding abilities.

 

Next year they can get wild and do 3 and 4 progression route combos on more obvious passing downs.

[minnesotacubsfan]

From this point Getsy and Fields have to start with the premise that pass protection is non-existent, it's a horsefeathers way to look at, not showing faith in your teammates and all. It does make practical sense, there's no other approach.

Yep.

 

You can run your full pass scheme only on 1st and 10. Any other time you want to pass its 90% two route concepts with a checkdown and maybe another chip option. Everyone else has to block.

 

Then turn those two route concepts into pure progression quick reads for Fields. And just do that over and over to try and speed up his initial play speed through 2 reads. Make sure he practices his sliding abilities.

 

Next year they can get wild and do 3 and 4 progression route combos on more obvious passing downs.

 

a jv game plan for a jv talent level offense

[raw]

 

 

I disagree. hes throwing to Kmet on the under route, he cant lob it and he cant high-point it. It was either a bad decision (which I'm not sure about) or a bad play design/call (which seems most likely)

 

Why are you talking about lobs and high-points? I didn't say horsefeathers about lobbing or throwing the ball high. Just releasing the ball high. Think sidearm pitcher vs. an over the top delivery. You can throw fastballs for every arm angle. Just like you can throw a football accurately and with velocity from any arm angle. He went with the 3/4 delivery when it should have been over the top.

 

my point about not lobbing or high-pointing the throw is about the play design, I didn't say you were making that argument. He's got one throw he can make to Kmet safely, and he likely threw it from an arm slot that felt the most comfortable to him. He didnt side arm it as you suggest in your baseball analogy, the release point is at the top of his helmet - farther up then 3/4.

 

But theres also the issue of the play call. Getsy has to understand the players he has. He has to understand that his o-lineman are terrible pass blockers up the middle and either wiff or become statues far too often. He also has to understand that Justin Fields inst Peyton Manning and isnt going to stand as tall as he possibly can in the pocket while throwing directly over the top of 6'-5" guys. Why call a play that requires JF to do something he just doesn't seem to be geared up or built to do?

 

You can't design every damn play outside of the pocket. Have you seen how teams are defending him? They are keeping the backside DE from rushing and strictly in contain. Hell, it happened last night that they called a playaction roll out and he couldn't even get the ball to Kmet at the line of scrimmage.

 

He has to throw the ball from the pocket to be an NFL QB. If he isn't comfortable releasing the ball at DL helmets then he might as well quit football right now. The fact that it doesn't happen on every play, leads me to believe he's fine releasing the ball correctly, just didn't on this play. And that's his fault, not Getsy's. Not the DL for being too tall. Kyler horsefeathering Murray throws the ball over linemen or he finds a lane. Fields can do it too, and does most of the time. He didn't this time. And it was bad.

[WrigleyField 22]

From this point Getsy and Fields have to start with the premise that pass protection is non-existent, it's a horsefeathers way to look at, not showing faith in your teammates and all. It does make practical sense, there's no other approach.

Yep.

 

You can run your full pass scheme only on 1st and 10. Any other time you want to pass its 90% two route concepts with a checkdown and maybe another chip option. Everyone else has to block.

 

Then turn those two route concepts into pure progression quick reads for Fields. And just do that over and over to try and speed up his initial play speed through 2 reads. Make sure he practices his sliding abilities.

 

Next year they can get wild and do 3 and 4 progression route combos on more obvious passing downs.

 

a jv game plan for a jv talent level offense

Pretty much!

 

My freshman team ran "curl arrow" concept into the ground and I was the TE just racking up 3 yard "arrow" routes.

 

We didn't win many games either. (please Getsy do something a little more intersting that curl arrow though)