2022-23 Offseason Thread (Cubs)

[Bertz]

I still think the most likely explanation for all the "we've got the money" talk is less palace intrigue and more that PTR is less worried about not coming down with anybody than the fanbase is.

 

Possibly related, Russ Dorsey posted this a few hours and then just retweeted himself a few minutes ago

 

 

Swanson might be imminent, and given Dorsey's time as a Cubs beat guy it's encouraging that he seems plugged in here (assuming you're like me and actually like Swanson).

[UMFan83]

If they miss Correa and Swanson the uproar is going to be huge to the point where someone, probably Jed, is going to have to be the sacrificial lamb.

 

They won’t fire him this offseason. But I have to think he has to be on the hot seat unless he swings a trade for Tatis or something.

 

If he doesn’t get either guy I may have to buy a cubs convention ticket just to see the atmosphere

 

I don't know that I'd have the restraint to keep myself from flipping off Ricketts if I ever saw him, so I'm pretty sure it's best I avoid the convention.

 

I'm certain you won't be the only one flipping off Ricketts if he makes a public appearance at Cubs convention lol

[gflore34]

If you're Hoyer, why not spend? Ownership is publicly telling you to. So your options are spend a bit recklessly and face the repercussions a few years from now or spend nothing and likely get canned at the end of the year.

 

Exactly what I was thinking, they told him to spend, so horsefeathering grow some and pull the trigger.

[UMFan83]

I still think the most likely explanation for all the "we've got the money" talk is less palace intrigue and more that PTR is less worried about not coming down with anybody than the fanbase is.

 

Possibly related, Russ Dorsey posted this a few hours and then just retweeted himself a few minutes ago

 

 

Swanson might be imminent, and given Dorsey's time as a Cubs beat guy it's encouraging that he seems plugged in here (assuming you're like me and actually like Swanson).

 

Didn't realize he's not a local guy anymore. Good for him. I still prefer Correa but I can get behind Swanson. Little surprised that he might go before Correa. Figured he'd wait it out and then profit from the teams that are left with one SS left to fight over.

[UMFan83]

If you're Hoyer, why not spend? Ownership is publicly telling you to. So your options are spend a bit recklessly and face the repercussions a few years from now or spend nothing and likely get canned at the end of the year.

 

he's probably trying to, but nobody wants to come to the cubs for whatever reason

 

I know there are bad vibes with what happened to the last core, but there's no reason someone wouldn't come to the Cubs if they were offering the most money unless a guy is really really hung up on being guaranteed to be in contention next season.

[17 Seconds]

If you're Hoyer, why not spend? Ownership is publicly telling you to. So your options are spend a bit recklessly and face the repercussions a few years from now or spend nothing and likely get canned at the end of the year.

 

he's probably trying to, but nobody wants to come to the cubs for whatever reason

 

I know there are bad vibes with what happened to the last core, but there's no reason someone wouldn't come to the Cubs if they were offering the most money unless a guy is really really hung up on being guaranteed to be in contention next season.

 

we have no idea what these FAs really are interested in. maybe they don't like the cold, maybe they don't like playing in wrigley, maybe they have friends/family elsewhere, etc. it could easily be that we're just getting unlucky with this particular free agency class not having a lot of chicago fans.

 

i'm just struggling to find reasons for why we haven't done more so far. if we aren't serious about correa, there are so many other free agents we should have come away with/ nothing makes sense right now unless we're getting correa.

[Cubswin11]

If you're Hoyer, why not spend? Ownership is publicly telling you to. So your options are spend a bit recklessly and face the repercussions a few years from now or spend nothing and likely get canned at the end of the year.

 

he's probably trying to, but nobody wants to come to the cubs for whatever reason

They’ve gotten a premier international FA in Suzuki last year, Stroman, Taillon and Bellinger in the last ~14 months. They clearly can get guys. Yes they haven’t gotten the big anchor (Suzuki may still be one) but it’s not like they haven’t gotten decent guys to come.

[UMFan83]

 

he's probably trying to, but nobody wants to come to the cubs for whatever reason

 

I know there are bad vibes with what happened to the last core, but there's no reason someone wouldn't come to the Cubs if they were offering the most money unless a guy is really really hung up on being guaranteed to be in contention next season.

 

we have no idea what these FAs really are interested in. maybe they don't like the cold, maybe they don't like playing in wrigley, maybe they have friends/family elsewhere, etc. it could easily be that we're just getting unlucky with this particular free agency class not having a lot of chicago fans.

 

i'm just struggling to find reasons for why we haven't done more so far. if we aren't serious about correa, there are so many other free agents we should have come away with/ nothing makes sense right now unless we're getting correa.

 

It's only cold for the first 6 weeks. Bogaerts grew up a Cubs fan, Correa has engaged with the Cubs the last 2 seasons and has been recruited by other Cubs players. Swanson's new wife plays soccer for the Red Stars. I don't think they are turned off by the Cubs at all, unless they simply don't believe the Cubs will be good anytime soon. I think its really just a matter of Jed not wanting to give out contracts longer than 6 years and he's waiting in hopes that the market comes down to where he wants to play.

[17 Seconds]

If you're Hoyer, why not spend? Ownership is publicly telling you to. So your options are spend a bit recklessly and face the repercussions a few years from now or spend nothing and likely get canned at the end of the year.

 

he's probably trying to, but nobody wants to come to the cubs for whatever reason

They’ve gotten a premier international FA in Suzuki last year, Stroman, Taillon and Bellinger in the last ~14 months. They clearly can get guys. Yes they haven’t gotten the big anchor (Suzuki may still be one) but it’s not like they haven’t gotten decent guys to come.

 

im.talking about this free agent class. I'm not suggesting the cubs are an unattractive destination. I'm just speculating that maybe we are getting unlucky with this particular class wanting to come here.

[jersey cubs fan]

I really don’t get the thinking that Jed might get fired for saving Ricketts money. Ownership has taken heat and ticket sales are down so biz people are talking a big game, probably precisely because they have faith that Jed won’t spend like Theo.

[jersey cubs fan]

i'm just struggling to find reasons for why we haven't done more so far.

Because the GM is obsessed with efficiency and the owner is comfortable with the business model of a losing Cubs team still being profitable.

[17 Seconds]

i'm just struggling to find reasons for why we haven't done more so far.

Because the GM is obsessed with efficiency and the owner is comfortable with the business model of a losing Cubs team still being profitable.

 

but there are lots of guys who would still have fit into an efficiency plan with more bulk. jed can't be scared of 2 year deals.

[Sammy Sofa]

I really don’t get the thinking that Jed might get fired for saving Ricketts money. Ownership has taken heat and ticket sales are down so biz people are talking a big game, probably precisely because they have faith that Jed won’t spend like Theo.

 

Yeah, they're completely full of horsefeathers. Those cheap ghouls don't want him to spend a dime more than they've decided he "should," but they know the bulk of the fanbase is a bunch of stupid meatheads that will lap up any kind of rhetoric that sounds even remotely like, "well, we tried."

 

TL;DR version: this is the Ricketts to Jed while they're dropping quotes about wanting to spend:

 

[Cubswin11]

i'm just struggling to find reasons for why we haven't done more so far.

Because the GM is obsessed with efficiency and the owner is comfortable with the business model of a losing Cubs team still being profitable.

 

but there are lots of guys who would still have fit into an efficiency plan with more bulk. jed can't be scared of 2 year deals.

There’s still plenty of those guys out there if that’s the plan to go 1-2 year deals. Segura, Martinez, Brantley, Profar, Syndergaard, Smyly, Kimbrel, Smith, Britton, Narvaez, Aguilar, Belt, Mancini, Pollock, Anderson, Eovaldi, Givens, Nelson, etc. There’s plenty of guys left to go short term and maybe build a WC team if things break.

[UMFan83]

I really don’t get the thinking that Jed might get fired for saving Ricketts money. Ownership has taken heat and ticket sales are down so biz people are talking a big game, probably precisely because they have faith that Jed won’t spend like Theo.

 

I just don't see how it helps to throw your head of baseball operations under the bus like that. Maybe they don't fire Jed but seems like the relationship will be damaged because of it. Or maybe its nothing and everyone will get over it quickly.

[Bertz]

i'm just struggling to find reasons for why we haven't done more so far.

Because the GM is obsessed with efficiency and the owner is comfortable with the business model of a losing Cubs team still being profitable.

 

but there are lots of guys who would still have fit into an efficiency plan with more bulk. jed can't be scared of 2 year deals.

 

I mean the obvious answer to your question is that the offseason is not done yet, particularly in the "guys who will settle for 1-2 year deal" range. Like I'm nervous about who the other SP is going to be, since that's a position that's been picked over pretty good, but otherwise IMO it's just wait and see what happens with the shortstops before getting too depressed or elated. IMO it's telling that Jed was expedient in addressing CF, the thinnest position in FA.

[Backtobanks]

Because the GM is obsessed with efficiency and the owner is comfortable with the business model of a losing Cubs team still being profitable.

 

but there are lots of guys who would still have fit into an efficiency plan with more bulk. jed can't be scared of 2 year deals.

 

I mean the obvious answer to your question is that the offseason is not done yet, particularly in the "guys who will settle for 1-2 year deal" range. Like I'm nervous about who the other SP is going to be, since that's a position that's been picked over pretty good, but otherwise IMO it's just wait and see what happens with the shortstops before getting too depressed or elated. IMO it's telling that Jed was expedient in addressing CF, the thinnest position in FA.

 

Then Jed needs to swing a blockbuster trade or two using some of those prospects that we seem reluctant to deal.

[Cubswin11]

Obviously interesting to see Taillon there, but also makes me more intrigued by Syndergaard. Think he should be cheapish/take a shorter term deal and think we can lab/tinker with him and the Angels are garbage with pitching.

 

[Bertz]

Obviously interesting to see Taillon there, but also makes me more intrigued by Syndergaard. Think he should be cheapish/take a shorter term deal and think we can lab/tinker with him and the Angels are garbage with pitching.

 

 

I started looking at him this afternoon too. It feels like there's about a 30% chance he dumps his sinker, plays with a couple breaking ball grips, and resumes being awesome even at his new velo. But there's like a 70% chance he's just simply washed.

 

He's basically pitcher Bellinger.

[Cubswin11]

Obviously interesting to see Taillon there, but also makes me more intrigued by Syndergaard. Think he should be cheapish/take a shorter term deal and think we can lab/tinker with him and the Angels are garbage with pitching.

 

 

I started looking at him this afternoon too. It feels like there's about a 30% chance he dumps his sinker, plays with a couple breaking ball grips, and resumes being awesome even at his new velo. But there's like a 70% chance he's just simply washed.

 

He's basically pitcher Bellinger.

Yeah I was thinking giving him the Bellinger deal with maybe a healthier option/buyout or even 2 years at that rough deal (or a little less to smooth out AAV) with a 3rd year option/buyout.

[Cubswin11]

The last thing this rotation needs to add is a SP coming off a 16% K rate. Also worth noting that Syndergaard's peak velocity fell as the year went along and Taillon's did not (the two had ~ the same peak velo last year), doesn't get chases, doesn't really have a good offspeed, etc etc

 

Take the win with Taillon and do something better than sign an obviously worse pitcher to a staff that doesn't need an obviously worse arm with merely abv avg nominal velo

 

Maybe something about how Syndergaard's a great example of how overrated age can be on the FA market where no one is actually all that young

The bet is obviously another year removed from TJ, so a velo bump could come and he has a diverse pitch mix where maybe some can be scrapped/a pitch can be amplified and also we seem to know a lot more about pitching vs the Angels. Not saying I’d go nuts (2 year deal at most) on Syndergaard but I think there are some tweaks with some under the hood work he could be a perfectly fine middle rotation, ~3 win, pitcher. He also doesn’t cost a draft pick, which with the remaining FA SPs is a decent bonus.

[CubinNY]

I don’t know, goony. The expectations were set by Crane. They’re going to have a lot of questions to answer if the don’t make a significant signing.

 

It’s very out of character for them. I suppose it depends on if Jed doesn’t mind taking the heat from the media as long as he knows his job is safe because he didn’t spend unintelligently.

 

“Spending intelligently” is going to follow him everywhere he goes.

[pitchcs]

Because the GM is obsessed with efficiency and the owner is comfortable with the business model of a losing Cubs team still being profitable.

 

but there are lots of guys who would still have fit into an efficiency plan with more bulk. jed can't be scared of 2 year deals.

There’s still plenty of those guys out there if that’s the plan to go 1-2 year deals. Segura, Martinez, Brantley, Profar, Syndergaard, Smyly, Kimbrel, Smith, Britton, Narvaez, Aguilar, Belt, Mancini, Pollock, Anderson, Eovaldi, Givens, Nelson, etc. There’s plenty of guys left to go short term and maybe build a WC team if things break.

 

I think (?) this is sort of where I’m at right now. Would I like to get Correa? Of course. Would I like Swanson? Eh, I mean yes, but probably not at what he’ll get.

 

Buying at the top of the market isn’t very smart in any other venture of life so this is probably no different. The Trea Turners and Correas of the world are probably going to be worth their contract but the next wave of guys getting big money are much less likely to. Will they help next year? Yeah, but much more so for teams trying to get over the WS hump not just the .500 hump.

 

Some of these big market teams are probably close to out of the game next offseason right? Mets, Phillies, can they even sign more guys? What if Ohtani really does become realistic?

 

Maybe I’m way off here but I just didn’t see the real possibility from going to whatever last year was to a true contender in a single offseason outside of signing 3-4 top end guys, which we know wasn’t going happen

[jersey cubs fan]

I don’t know, goony. The expectations were set by Crane. They’re going to have a lot of questions to answer if the don’t make a significant signing.

.

Who will have a lot of questions to answer, and from whom? This isn’t a publicly traded entity with shareholders nor are they elected officials. They are hyping a product they are attempting to sell, a product that they have been happy to sell while defective for most of their tenure. They aren’t Steinbrenners.

[UMFan83]

Wtf