Week 3: Bears at Browns

[CubinNY]

Woof

 

Sabotage is the offensive scheme?

[Tryptamine]

I saw somewhere that said it was 30 drop backs and 21 of those were 5 man protections? Wtf if true.

 

There's some confusion around whether the issue is dumbing down the offense for Fields or whatever, but literally making sure you provide adequate protection against a very good D isn't that.

 

This is exactly why Nagy should be gone today. He saw his Oline getting torched and did absolutely nothing to help them. If I wasn't so sure he was merely incompetent, I would think it was an intentional sabotage job.

[Old Style]

I saw somewhere that said it was 30 drop backs and 21 of those were 5 man protections? Wtf if true.

 

There's some confusion around whether the issue is dumbing down the offense for Fields or whatever, but literally making sure you provide adequate protection against a very good D isn't that.

 

This is exactly why Nagy should be gone today. He saw his Oline getting torched and did absolutely nothing to help them. If I wasn't so sure he was merely incompetent, I would think it was an intentional sabotage job.

He only called one play that I can remember to move Fields out of the pocket. It was mind blowing how bad the play calling was and we've seen many examples of bad Nagy play calling over the years.

[WrigleyField 22]

I saw somewhere that said it was 30 drop backs and 21 of those were 5 man protections? Wtf if true.

 

There's some confusion around whether the issue is dumbing down the offense for Fields or whatever, but literally making sure you provide adequate protection against a very good D isn't that.

 

This is exactly why Nagy should be gone today. He saw his Oline getting torched and did absolutely nothing to help them. If I wasn't so sure he was merely incompetent, I would think it was an intentional sabotage job.

Lack of adjustment, sure. But I also don't think he should have needed to see that first knowing what he knew about this line and the Browns D. Sounds like maybe Peters was worse from where he had been, but the interior line had struggles as well before. There is a fine line between a terrible OL and a bad one that just needs scheme help. I felt fairly confident they were the latter before. Not sure I'll rewatch any snaps, but if that 21/30 stat is true, I'm not necessarily moved on my eval of the line v my eval of Nagy.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I would love to see Lazor call a game against a top 5 defense. Something tells me we would then know if it's the system or JUST Nagys game calling

[WrigleyField 22]

I would love to see Lazor call a game against a top 5 defense. Something tells me we would then know if it's the system or JUST Nagys game calling

Yea I'm not expecting much from Lazor. His play calling run was a cake walk. But it would also apparently be a pretty low hurdle to clear over Nagy.

 

But also I find the idea that Pace (or McCaskey even!) should be "marching down to Nagy's office" and demanding he give playcalling to Lazor very silly. Naw, just horsefeathering fire him them.

[Soul]

Pace & Nagy both need to be gone but the Bears have never fired a GM or coach in season, right? I'm just hopeful they finally cut ties with Dumb & Dumber this off-season.

 

I don't recall the Bears doing it mid-season. Could be wrong? Regardless I can't see it. They'll ride Nagy until the offseason and if it's a losing season they'll analyze whether they want Pace to continue without him.

 

I think Pace bought a little goodwill with the Fields move. But I'm looking at this cruddy OLine, the empty chairs at TE, and the secondary (maybe they'll improve??) and I'm still seeing overall failure @ GM.

[WrigleyField 22]

Pace & Nagy both need to be gone but the Bears have never fired a GM or coach in season, right? I'm just hopeful they finally cut ties with Dumb & Dumber this off-season.

 

I don't recall the Bears doing it mid-season. Could be wrong? Regardless I can't see it. They'll ride Nagy until the offseason and if it's a losing season they'll analyze whether they want Pace to continue without him.

 

I think Pace bought a little goodwill with the Fields move. But I'm looking at this cruddy OLine, the empty chairs at TE, and the secondary (maybe they'll improve??) and I'm still seeing overall failure @ GM.

They never have. But they've slowly changed the way they do a lot of things in the past couple decades. No, never immediately, but eventually.

 

Pace's failings are probably a little more nuanced than Nagy's. I personally still view them as a package deal, but it may very well be the McCaskeys view Pace as a fixture. And maybe we can't be sure that Pace isn't banging his head thinking "Nagy you told me Graham was a key cog so I kept him instead of Leno and now you won't support the clearly weaker OL OR use your 7M TE!". Maybe not. But it's plausible? But also throws the whole ridiculous "we just have great collaboration" line out the window.

 

So yea they're still a package deal to me, but I do like Pace's job better than Nagy, relatively speaking. But think they could definitely improve.

[Outshined_One]

I'm going to engage in a thought experiment. Please indulge me:

 

I know Trubisky was not good, that's pretty much undeniable, but as a coach Nagy is supposed to give him the greatest chance to succeed and that is where he completely failed. He didn't play to Trubisky's strengths by getting him out of the pocket, running rpos, running play actions. He didn't bring in extra blockers or have his RB help chip for an oline that was severely out talented. He didn't continue to try and run the ball to take the heat off Trubisky. Instead of putting Trubisky in a place to succeed, he made Trubisky's job as hard as he possibly could have and it resulted in the dumpster fire we saw yesterday.

 

Yep. That checks out.

 

By the way, this isn't a comparison between Trubisky and Fields. However, this feels like a continuation of Nagy's failures to adapt to his QB's strengths and weaknesses.

[Soul]

I'm going to engage in a thought experiment. Please indulge me:

 

I know Trubisky was not good, that's pretty much undeniable, but as a coach Nagy is supposed to give him the greatest chance to succeed and that is where he completely failed. He didn't play to Trubisky's strengths by getting him out of the pocket, running rpos, running play actions. He didn't bring in extra blockers or have his RB help chip for an oline that was severely out talented. He didn't continue to try and run the ball to take the heat off Trubisky. Instead of putting Trubisky in a place to succeed, he made Trubisky's job as hard as he possibly could have and it resulted in the dumpster fire we saw yesterday.

 

Yep. That checks out.

 

By the way, this isn't a comparison between Trubisky and Fields. However, this feels like a continuation of Nagy's failures to adapt to his QB's strengths and weaknesses.

That's exactly how it feels to me as well.

[The_Achiever]

Matt Nagy sucks ass. He's on the Marc Trestman/Jim Boylen-level of just pure horsefeathers coaches. Stubborn morons.

[Old Style]

I definitely think Nagy didn't do Mitch any favors for sure but Trubisky had consistent footwork problems and showed poor decision making skills over multiple seasons. Can some of that be blamed on coaching? I'm sure but I think we saw enough of Mitch to know he wasn't the answer long term.

[champaignchris]

I definitely think Nagy didn't do Mitch any favors for sure but Trubisky had consistent footwork problems and showed poor decision making skills over multiple seasons. Can some of that be blamed on coaching? I'm sure but I think we saw enough of Mitch to know he wasn't the answer long term.

 

Trubisky not being the long term answer and Nagy consistently refusing to put together a game plan to play to Trubisky’s strengths can both be true. And quite likely was.

[Old Style]

I definitely think Nagy didn't do Mitch any favors for sure but Trubisky had consistent footwork problems and showed poor decision making skills over multiple seasons. Can some of that be blamed on coaching? I'm sure but I think we saw enough of Mitch to know he wasn't the answer long term.

 

Trubisky not being the long term answer and Nagy consistently refusing to put together a game plan to play to Trubisky’s strengths can both be true. And quite likely was.

Completely agree

[Soul]

I definitely think Nagy didn't do Mitch any favors for sure but Trubisky had consistent footwork problems and showed poor decision making skills over multiple seasons. Can some of that be blamed on coaching? I'm sure but I think we saw enough of Mitch to know he wasn't the answer long term.

 

Trubisky not being the long term answer and Nagy consistently refusing to put together a game plan to play to Trubisky’s strengths can both be true. And quite likely was.

True, I thought the Trubisky pick was bizarre at that position and wasn't at all surprised he turned out the way he did. But, there were times when he looked really good especially on the move so why didn't Nagy design to that more, or did Mitch just not take advantage of those opportunities? Difficult to say.

 

With Fields though, I feel like good coaching and gameplan is all he needs to develop into an upper-half QB at least. I don't think anyone can doubt his raw abilities.

[UMFan83]

I would love to see Lazor call a game against a top 5 defense. Something tells me we would then know if it's the system or JUST Nagys game calling

Yea I'm not expecting much from Lazor. His play calling run was a cake walk. But it would also apparently be a pretty low hurdle to clear over Nagy.

 

But also I find the idea that Pace (or McCaskey even!) should be "marching down to Nagy's office" and demanding he give playcalling to Lazor very silly. Naw, just horsefeathering fire him them.

 

I don't necessarily think that Lazor would miraculously make this a good offense but I do think it would be improved over what we've seen.

[Bertz]

[raw]

 

OK, so the guy who is *better* than a Peyton Manning-level prospect somehow fell to No. 11.

 

This is the kind of hype train I'm just not seeing.

 

Aaron Rodgers fell to 24th. Lamar Jackson went 32nd. Deshaun Watson was the top college QB prospect for 2 years, and went 12th. horsefeathers happens all the time, man.

 

None of those guys were "better prospects than Peyton Manning."

 

And for every one of them, there's a dozen guys picked around those spots who flame out

 

I mean, you literally quoted the post and misquoted me. I never said "better" than Peyton Manning. I said on the same level. Also, I don't see the point you think you are making. They were very widely considered the top prospects at their position, until the draft came and for whatever reasons they all fell, like Fields did. It seems like you are being contrarian for contrarian sake. Because people have "seen it" for the last 4-5 years who actually get paid to "see it" (HS ratings people, college recruiters, college coaches, Heisman voters, college poll votes, NFL scouts) have said this and you "not seeing it" is very clearly you choosing not to see it. When you don't know what you are talking about, maybe defer to those that do, especially when the extent of your evaluation is "I don't see it" and you are arguing actual facts like Fields being the 3rd fastest timed QB in the league right now.

[raw]

I would love to see Lazor call a game against a top 5 defense. Something tells me we would then know if it's the system or JUST Nagys game calling

Yea I'm not expecting much from Lazor. His play calling run was a cake walk. But it would also apparently be a pretty low hurdle to clear over Nagy.

 

But also I find the idea that Pace (or McCaskey even!) should be "marching down to Nagy's office" and demanding he give playcalling to Lazor very silly. Naw, just horsefeathering fire him them.

 

I don't necessarily think that Lazor would miraculously make this a good offense but I do think it would be improved over what we've seen.

 

They don't even have to be "good". I know it doesn't seem like it, but the defense is still good enough that they can win more games than they lose if they can score efficiently. They have failed to score TDs on 4 of 7 redzone trips this year. They also have had multiple TD passes dropped and penalties/sacks taking them out of FG range. I mean that wouldn't have made any difference against LA and Cleveland, but that could be the difference in beating the Minnesotas, Detroits, and Vegases of the league, who are varying levels of an even playing field with the Bears.

[UMFan83]

I know its the job of these shows to make very strong opinions and go to the extreme in expressing them, but man did these guys tear apart Nagy, Rex Ryan especially.

 

[squally1313]

 

Aaron Rodgers fell to 24th. Lamar Jackson went 32nd. Deshaun Watson was the top college QB prospect for 2 years, and went 12th. horsefeathers happens all the time, man.

 

None of those guys were "better prospects than Peyton Manning."

 

And for every one of them, there's a dozen guys picked around those spots who flame out

 

I mean, you literally quoted the post and misquoted me. I never said "better" than Peyton Manning. I said on the same level. Also, I don't see the point you think you are making. They were very widely considered the top prospects at their position, until the draft came and for whatever reasons they all fell, like Fields did. It seems like you are being contrarian for contrarian sake. Because people have "seen it" for the last 4-5 years who actually get paid to "see it" (HS ratings people, college recruiters, college coaches, Heisman voters, college poll votes, NFL scouts) have said this and you "not seeing it" is very clearly you choosing not to see it. When you don't know what you are talking about, maybe defer to those that do, especially when the extent of your evaluation is "I don't see it" and you are arguing actual facts like Fields being the 3rd fastest timed QB in the league right now.

 

"For whatever reasons" doing a lot of work here.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I know its the job of these shows to make very strong opinions and go to the extreme in expressing them, but man did these guys tear apart Nagy, Rex Ryan especially.

 

 

I agree with them 100%. I'm just sick of the promise of a top tier offense with Nagy running it. He is simply incapable

[UMFan83]

I know its the job of these shows to make very strong opinions and go to the extreme in expressing them, but man did these guys tear apart Nagy, Rex Ryan especially.

 

 

I agree with them 100%. I'm just sick of the promise of a top tier offense with Nagy running it. He is simply incapable

 

I'm almost willing to go back on my take that Mitch is bad regardless of Nagy's ineptitude. I don't think he's above average or anything, but he may have a higher ceiling than I originally thought.

[Bertz]

I think to me, the most damning thing about Nagy is how little the offense has changed or improves based on who's under center. Over the last few years there was a lot of intimating that "Mitch is a dummy and if I just had a REAL QB we'd show you some cool horsefeathers."

 

But then last year with Foles nothing changed

 

Now this year with Dalton nothing changed

 

Now this year with Fields nothing changed

 

Like maybe the issue with Foles was how much the pandemic borked up training camp last year? Maybe Dalton will be fine when he's not facing the Rams? Maybe Fields it's purely inexperience? Each of those are reasonable on their own, but when you've failed all four of your QBs, like it's clearly on you. It's the old Raylan Givens line, but instead of horsefeathers people it's horsefeathers quarterbacks.

[UMFan83]

I think to me, the most damning thing about Nagy is how little the offense has changed or improves based on who's under center. Over the last few years there was a lot of intimating that "Mitch is a dummy and if I just had a REAL QB we'd show you some cool horsefeathers."

 

But then last year with Foles nothing changed

 

Now this year with Dalton nothing changed

 

Now this year with Fields nothing changed

 

Like maybe the issue with Foles was how much the pandemic borked up training camp last year? Maybe Dalton will be fine when he's not facing the Rams? Maybe Fields it's purely inexperience? Each of those are reasonable on their own, but when you've failed all four of your QBs, like it's clearly on you. It's the old Raylan Givens line, but instead of horsefeathers people it's horsefeathers quarterbacks.

 

To be fair, our only data point for Dalton not facing the Rams is the ~1 half he got against the Bengals when he had a 118 QB rating, so we haven't quite disproven that yet. But I'm almost certain we will as soon as he gets back to starting.