Week 3: Bears at Browns

[raw]

He doesn't have more raw talent than Cutler

 

Maybe if talent = arm only. Cutler has a better arm, but Fields has shown better in literally every other aspect of quarterbacking than Cutler and he runs a 4.4. 5-star recruit, 2nd rated HS football recruit to Trevor Lawrence, who he beat in a Nike camp for MVP, and in the national playoffs last year. Trevor Lawrence was seen on the Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning level of QB prospects and Justin Fields was better than him every time they were on the same field.

[Wilson A2000]

He doesn't have more raw talent than Cutler

 

Maybe if talent = arm only. Cutler has a better arm, but Fields has shown better in literally every other aspect of quarterbacking than Cutler and he runs a 4.4. 5-star recruit, 2nd rated HS football recruit to Trevor Lawrence, who he beat in a Nike camp for MVP, and in the national playoffs last year. Trevor Lawrence was seen on the Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning level of QB prospects and Justin Fields was better than him every time they were on the same field.

 

Watch Nagy completely mess him up in record time

[champaignchris]

As always, I am an idiot, but what am I supposed to love so much about Fields? I see plenty to like. I'm fine taking him 11th overall. But he keeps getting talked about as an elite prospect and ... why?

 

His arm is fine, but certainly nothing special. I'd call it NFL average. It won't stop him from being a starter, but it's not anything special. He's not gonna zip balls into impossible windows or anything.

 

His accuracy is fine, but it doesn't stand out to me.

 

His mobility is fine, but there's plenty of guys who are faster. He's not going to make defenses sweat at night with how they're going to stop him from running.

 

If he figures out how to make quick, accurate decisions, he'll be a good NFL starter. But that's true of a half-dozen guys every draft. What am I missing?

 

#11 overall AND what is almost certain to be a top 10, if not top 5, pick in 2022.

 

you're counting the trade twice here. it was #20 plus that 1st

 

You’re right.

[raw]

He doesn't have more raw talent than Cutler

 

Maybe if talent = arm only. Cutler has a better arm, but Fields has shown better in literally every other aspect of quarterbacking than Cutler and he runs a 4.4.

 

I think you're selling Cutler short. The arm definitely went a long way but he had a great reputation for leadership and general chutzpah at the QB position as a 4 year starter in the SEC who was basically the only draftable player on the roster the entire time. I'd even go as far as saying he was a great college QB in a sense, just kinda scraped his career in before offenses exploded on an SEC team without an SEC roster

 

Eh. Cutler's reputation for leadership wasn't good, at least at the NFL level. Not sure what his teammates in college thought, though. And the Bears alone drafted 2 of his teammates from Vanderbilt (one in the 1st round). Cutler was great in college and a great prospect. I think he also went 11th in the draft, like Fields. But Fields was rated the 2nd best prospect for the last 4 years to a generational prospect.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

He doesn't have more raw talent than Cutler

 

Maybe if talent = arm only. Cutler has a better arm, but Fields has shown better in literally every other aspect of quarterbacking than Cutler and he runs a 4.4. 5-star recruit, 2nd rated HS football recruit to Trevor Lawrence, who he beat in a Nike camp for MVP, and in the national playoffs last year. Trevor Lawrence was seen on the Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning level of QB prospects and Justin Fields was better than him every time they were on the same field.

 

OK, so the guy who is *better* than a Peyton Manning-level prospect somehow fell to No. 11.

 

This is the kind of hype train I'm just not seeing.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Have pro days gotten more reliable? Because pro day 40 times used to be ... less than reliable, but maybe that's changed.

[raw]

He doesn't have more raw talent than Cutler

 

Maybe if talent = arm only. Cutler has a better arm, but Fields has shown better in literally every other aspect of quarterbacking than Cutler and he runs a 4.4. 5-star recruit, 2nd rated HS football recruit to Trevor Lawrence, who he beat in a Nike camp for MVP, and in the national playoffs last year. Trevor Lawrence was seen on the Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning level of QB prospects and Justin Fields was better than him every time they were on the same field.

 

OK, so the guy who is *better* than a Peyton Manning-level prospect somehow fell to No. 11.

 

This is the kind of hype train I'm just not seeing.

 

Aaron Rodgers fell to 24th. Lamar Jackson went 32nd. Deshaun Watson was the top college QB prospect for 2 years, and went 12th. horsefeathers happens all the time, man.

[Brian707]

I hate to sound like a meatball but Nagy needs to horsefeathering go. Or at least be forced to give up play calling. Fields may end up being a bust. But we can't let Nagy have anything to do with his development before we find out.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

 

Maybe if talent = arm only. Cutler has a better arm, but Fields has shown better in literally every other aspect of quarterbacking than Cutler and he runs a 4.4. 5-star recruit, 2nd rated HS football recruit to Trevor Lawrence, who he beat in a Nike camp for MVP, and in the national playoffs last year. Trevor Lawrence was seen on the Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning level of QB prospects and Justin Fields was better than him every time they were on the same field.

 

OK, so the guy who is *better* than a Peyton Manning-level prospect somehow fell to No. 11.

 

This is the kind of hype train I'm just not seeing.

 

Aaron Rodgers fell to 24th. Lamar Jackson went 32nd. Deshaun Watson was the top college QB prospect for 2 years, and went 12th. horsefeathers happens all the time, man.

 

None of those guys were "better prospects than Peyton Manning."

 

And for every one of them, there's a dozen guys picked around those spots who flame out

[raw]

After a re-watch, I will actually absolve Nagy of a little bit. He actually did move the pocket more than I thought. The Browns were really well coached for when he did though as he did almost nothing outside of the pocket, just like he did nothing in the pocket. I'd say a good 3-4 of his sacks, he held onto the ball too long. Nagy called a couple RPOs which is a pretty simple read for the QB and a play Fields has run 1000 times between Ohio St, Georgia, NFL and probably high school. But on the 2nd sack, he made the right read (fake to RB) but for some reason didn't take Mooney on the slant. Last year, he would have hit Garrett Wilson in stride on that play and he probably would have scored on a bad college secondary.

 

Here's a pretty good breakdown of every non-handoff snap. Some are a little nitpicky. But most are pretty spot on.

 

[MEDIA=youtube]d9cExOBNjO4[/MEDIA]

 

 

Run 1 - Nothing really open for Fields so he scrambles for a decent gain.

 

Sack 1 - The OL blocking on this is atrocious but so is Fields pocket presence. You can see the pocket collapsing right away but the Browns have zero contain. Instead of scrambling to his right where he can run or throw if the defender breaks down on him, Fields just stands there waiting for the sack. The dude has no pocket awareness on this play and this will be a theme where he just takes too long to see things.

 

Pass 1 - One of the few times he throws on time likely because the Browns play soft coverage.

 

Sack 2 - Freeze this at 37 seconds. Fields is looking at Mooney who is open for an easy pass. Instead Fields holds it for some inexplicable reason and is sacked. Like again, this is the horsefeathering NFL. You can't just sit there waiting for something better. Mooney has completely beat his man and if Fields throws this with anticipation Mooney is still running. If this is Dalton the ball is already out. Sorry Bears fans, the kid is not ready.

 

Sack 3 - Freeze at 49 seconds. Again what the horsefeathers is Fields reading? He has Mooney open again in the middle of the Field with room to run but he still holds the ball and takes another sack. This is the NFL, windows don't stay open for long. This ball has to come out dude. Period.

 

Pass 2 - One of the few times Fields threw on time and surprise it is completed.

 

Pass 3 - Fields is late on this throw which causes the defender to close down on ARob. To his credit, he then squeezes this in but if he had thrown it on time then ARob catches it with a chance at YAC.

 

Pass 4 - Easy read and Fields sails it. No biggie horsefeathers happens. At least he actually threw on time.

 

Sack 4 - Freeze this at 1:35. Kmet has planted his foot and Fields is at the end of his drop. Again the ball has to come out. Kmet is going to be NFL open if Fields throws this on time but once again he waits and runs himself into a sack. That is 4 sacks now and all 4 of them could have been avoided if Fields were more decisive. He simply can't wait this long in the NFL with the OL we have. This is not OSU playing Shitball U.

 

 

 

Pass 5 - This is Fields predetermining throws. Kmet is bracketed and if he was fast thinking, he should know that means Monty has no one on him in the flat even if he isn't looking at him because the 2nd guy on Kmet is Monty's guy. So why the horsefeathers do you throw to Kmet instead of whipping it to Monty and letting him try and make a guy miss.

 

 

 

Pass 6 - Kmet is open if Fields looks left but instead again he is just a tad too late on this throw to Mooney for this to work. Not as late as on other throws so won't knock him much on this as he also had a defender in his face but he has to throw as the WR is breaking not after.

 

 

 

Sack 5 - At this point, I don't know what he is being coached to do but there is nothing on the front side. He has to know Kmet is chipping then releasing so he has to pivot to that side faster. You are at the end of your drop, if you don't like anything on the front side then get your eyes over to the back side where Kmet is open with space for a modest gain. You can't just stay on the route and wait for it to be open. It either is or isn't and with this OL, if it isn't then move the horsefeathers on to the backside.

 

 

 

Pass 7 - The rollouts people clamoring for and no one is horsefeathering fooled probably because why would they as if you don't have success in the pocket, teams will be looking for the rollout. Having said that, this is a good throw on the move by Fields but Goodwin doesn't come back to the ball and lets the defender get over him for the tip. It is clear that the OL and WRs are not helping Fields out at all.

 

 

 

Sack 6 - Freeze at 2:36, Kmet is about to flash across the defender and there will be a little window. Fields hesitates though and the window is gone. The horsefeathers OL means he now has to scramble but gets tackled from behind. Again, another play where the blocking is not great but again Fields has to make a decision quicker here. Stop hesitating and throw the ball.

 

 

 

Pass 8 - Another roll-out that fools absolutely no one. But again, bad decision by Fields. He thinks he is going to juke Garrett and realizes he is fucked and then throws incomplete. There is nothing on the front side here. Monty is open on the backside but Fields isn't fast enough to think about what the front side being shut down means for the backside and thinks he is playing Shitball U where he can juke the DE instead of reversing field and checking backside. Nope. This is the NFL.

 

 

 

Pass 9 - No idea why he think he can make this throw. Once again man open on the backside but Fields never makes his way there.

 

 

 

Pass 10 - Probably his best throw of the day to ARob.

 

 

 

Pass 11 - Throws on time to Monty who can't come down with it. At least it was on time and once again his teammates don't help him out.

 

 

 

Run 1 - Not a good zone read at all as it fools no one. Fields lucky he didn't get killed on a bit of a late hit.

 

 

 

Sack 7 - Another roll out that fools no one. I hope people realize that this is the NFL and this idea that teams aren't going to be prepared for rollouts of a mobile QB who is struggling within the pocket is foolish. The Browns read it so well that Fields slips for a huge loss. This is the problem with roll outs when they fail. They can easily lead to huge losses and this probably costs us a TD.

 

 

 

Pass 12 - Takes what the D gives him and Monty runs for 11 yards or so. If only he had done more of this.

 

 

 

Pass 13 - Nothing really open here so he tries to squeeze this in to ARob. Probably should have just taken off as he has a lane.

 

 

 

Pass 14 - This feels like he is scared of the rush and just throws it instead of checking other reads. Incomplete and no chance. He has ARob or Kmet open on the backside if he had bothered to check or he could have run it as he has an open lane.

 

 

 

Run 2 - Decent gain on the read option.

 

 

 

Pass 15 - This is still actually a tad too late but not a bad pass.

 

 

 

Pass 16 - Again this throw is a tad late which allows the defender to knock it away.

 

 

 

Sack 8 - No chance on this one as the rush gets to him before he can finish his drop.

 

 

 

Pass 17 - Freeze this at 5:25, and ARob is one on one at the top of the screen. Take your shot young man. Instead he dumps it to Monty who makes a nice gain. But you would like to see him recognize the one on one and give ARob a chance to make a play.

 

 

 

Pass 18 - Freeze this at 5:38 and Kmet has the LB flat footed and his about to blow by him with Fields looking down the middle of the field. Fields doesn't pull the trigger and checks down to Monty incomplete. Again those are the types of throws he was drafted to make. The throws he was squeeze into Jesse James in camp. Those are NFL windows he is refusing to hit.

 

 

 

Pass 19 - Does well to avoid the sack and throws it away.

 

 

 

Pass 20 - Again not sure what he is seeing. Mooney is flashing across his vision with a few steps on his guy and if he leads him, Mooney probably runs for a first down. Instead he holds the ball and makes a tougher throw to ARob that is out of bounds.

 

 

 

Sack 9 - No chance on this one.

[raw]

 

Of course, then there's this thread. Maybe he wasn't holding onto the ball too long. And definitely not a lot of open guys running around.

 

Sent from my SM-A115AZ using Tapatalk

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

Refs clearly have a preferred team in SNF.

[UMFan83]

 

Of course, then there's this thread. Maybe he wasn't holding onto the ball too long. And definitely not a lot of open guys running around.

 

Sent from my SM-A115AZ using Tapatalk

 

The whole “holding onto the ball too long” thing is the one thing that legitimately worries me about Fields if it’s an innate trait of his. If it’s because he’s not comfortable with the offense that’s one thing.

 

The other worrisome thing about your write up is a lot of these things you point out seem to be a lack of confidence in his decision making. Again this could be a lack of comfort in the offense. But his confidence is one thing I did not expect to be worrying about.

 

All in all though, I will throw this one out and say that this was his first NFL start, he was trying to limit mistakes, still not 100% comfortable with the offense and then add to all of that the fact that he was constantly under pressure. Now we see how he learns and adjusts (if he starts next week)

 

Btw, really appreciate that write up

[We Got The Whole 9]

I wasn't able to watch the game, thank God. But I saw a tweet saying he had an average of .78 seconds to throw the ball LOL

 

So this was basically Cutler vs the Giants all over again?

 

I understand that there's gotta be plenty of other plays, like raw pointed out, where his indecisiveness hurt him big time. But I mean, being led to slaughter like that can't be good for the psyche either.

 

Foles might enter the picture next week if this keeps up. We can't let Justin get destroyed like that. It feels like at the end of the day he's probably not as ready as a lot of us believe he is.

[minnesotacubsfan]

It might be that Nagy isn't ready to call an NFL game either

 

Today was extremely disappointing but Fields is still young enough to rebound, I don't think Nagy ever will

[Soul]

I feel like Nagy will ruin Fields if he’s the guy who gives Fields his first set of NFL starts. But he’s in charge right now. It’s his ship to sink, with career-altering consequences for Fields.

[Old Style]

Dan Orlovsky, Ryan Clark, and Rex Ryan just absolutely shredded Nagy on ESPN this morning with Orlovsky calling for him to be fired today. I thought I was pissed yesterday but these guys were more upset than me. Ryan Clark even joked that it's weird for him to be the nice one on that set. That's how fired up the other two were. My only issue with this and most every other Bears story I've seen is that very few people are ripping Pace like he deserves. We've spent so much money and roster space on TE's that we don't even attempt to use while the OL is a complete horsefeathers show.

[Brian707]

I just can't fathom how night and day the oline was vs Cincy and vs Cleveland. Yes, I know totally different levels of talent. I would think they might get right vs Detroit but who knows?

[Soul]

I just can't fathom how night and day the oline was vs Cincy and vs Cleveland. Yes, I know totally different levels of talent. I would think they might get right vs Detroit but who knows?

 

Look at the schedule after Detroit. They may get it right against DET but it's going to be tough for those guys afterwards.

[Brian707]

I just can't fathom how night and day the oline was vs Cincy and vs Cleveland. Yes, I know totally different levels of talent. I would think they might get right vs Detroit but who knows?

 

Look at the schedule after Detroit. They may get it right against DET but it's going to be tough for those guys afterwards.

 

 

Oh yeah it is going to be tough for sure.

[WrigleyField 22]

Well this certainly seems as bad as it's ever been in the calls for Nagy. But Pace can't survive this either, right?

 

Anyways looking ahead, I could see a move no earlier than November. McCaskeys arent going to be hasty in any decision, but GB Oct 17 looks large for them. Get embarrassed there at home and that could accelerate plans. Then the defending Champs the next week. Bye week is Nov 14 week and maybe before then is an opportunity for an interim coach to have an extra week to transition.

[Old Style]

Pace & Nagy both need to be gone but the Bears have never fired a GM or coach in season, right? I'm just hopeful they finally cut ties with Dumb & Dumber this off-season.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Woof

 

[Tryptamine]

I know Fields was not good, that's pretty much undeniable, but as a coach Nagy is supposed to give him the greatest chance to succeed and that is where he completely failed. He didn't play to his strengths by getting him out of the pocket, running rpos, running play actions. He didn't bring in extra blockers or have his RB help chip for an oline that was severely out talented. He didn't continue to try and run the ball to take the heat off Fields. Instead of putting him in a place to succeed, he made Justin's job as hard as he possibly could have and it resulted in the dumpster fire we saw yesterday.

[WrigleyField 22]

I saw somewhere that said it was 30 drop backs and 21 of those were 5 man protections? Wtf if true.

 

There's some confusion around whether the issue is dumbing down the offense for Fields or whatever, but literally making sure you provide adequate protection against a very good D isn't that.