New CBA negotiations

[Cubswin11]

A 12 team playoff is the worst

[Andy]

A 12 team playoff is the worst

Given that a 14 team playoff was and is on the table I can categorically state that 12 is not the worst. It's not good by any means but it's not the worst.

[Irrelevant Dude]

A 12 team playoff is the worst

Given that a 14 team playoff was and is on the table I can categorically state that 12 is not the worst. It's not good by any means but it's not the worst.

Yeah, I can live with 12, considering the alternative. 40% of teams making the playoffs isn't great, but there's no stopping playoff expansion at this point. It is money on the table for both sides.

 

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[Cubswin11]

Bringing in a mediator probably isn’t the worst thing. Obviously means they have gaps on points but getting a mediator in there probably helps push them to some sort of agreement and puts some pressure/time frame on doing things/forces them to engage. Instead of talking past each other/just disagreeing face to face at least have someone in the middle to corral things.

 

[Bertz]

The mediator thing seems like one of two things:

 

1.  MLB trying to cover its ass in saying "Hey we are trying." Because as of now, as much as these things are subjective, it seems fairly objective to say that no they are not.  And I'd imagine excessively bad faith negotiating opens MLB up to legal exposure

 

2.  The majority of owners are actually being vaguely reasonable, but there's a sizable contingent that are driving the gridlock.  Bringing in a relatively neutral 3rd party with a sizable level of experience/authority and having them acknowledge the crazy may be an attempt to bring the crazy contingent in line

[Andy]

Certainly 1 is at least true in part. Evan Drellich tweeted yesterday that MLB did not make any kind of counter-offer yesterday even though they said earlier this week that they would.

[Derwood]

Why wouldn't they just have a mediator from the start?

[CubinNY]

The owners think they will get a better deal if they 1) delay the process for as long as possible and 2) seek 3rd party mediation up to a point of giving a final and best offer before they get a ruling. As always, the owners have their eyes on long term profit maximization over all else. They are so greedy they are killing the sport in order to wrestle every last nickel they can out of the fans and players.

[Andy]

The owners think they will get a better deal if they 1) delay the process for as long as possible and 2) seek 3rd party mediation up to a point of giving a final and best offer before they get a ruling. As always, the owners have their eyes on long term profit maximization over all else. They are so greedy they are killing the sport in order to wrestle every last nickel they can out of the fans and players.

It's pretty damn sickening. We all know this stuff happens everywhere but for whatever reason seeing it play out so obviously in real time makes it even more infuriating.

 

The MLBPA rejected mediation, as they should have.

[cl smooth]

The owners think they will get a better deal if they 1) delay the process for as long as possible and 2) seek 3rd party mediation up to a point of giving a final and best offer before they get a ruling. As always, the owners have their eyes on long term profit maximization over all else. They are so greedy they are killing the sport in order to wrestle every last nickel they can out of the fans and players.

It's pretty damn sickening. We all know this stuff happens everywhere but for whatever reason seeing it play out so obviously in real time makes it even more infuriating.

 

The MLBPA rejected mediation, as they should have.

 

[UMFan83]

The players are going off on twitter right now.

 

https://twitter.com/WContreras40/status/1489686365105184771

[Bertz]

The owners think they will get a better deal if they 1) delay the process for as long as possible and 2) seek 3rd party mediation up to a point of giving a final and best offer before they get a ruling. As always, the owners have their eyes on long term profit maximization over all else. They are so greedy they are killing the sport in order to wrestle every last nickel they can out of the fans and players.

 

I actually think the problem is not enough long term thinking.

 

- 5 years ago the MLBPA was fat and happy. Willing to sell amateurs down the river for roomier bus rides and like a dedicated omelette chef or w/e. MLB decided to pull back on FA spend, and now have a full on labor crisis

 

- Last year we got the weird bastardized 60 game season because small market owners were going to lose money on a per game basis with revenue sharing suspended. The league passed on two months of assuredly bonkers tv ratings, including far more young eyes than they'll ever reliably be able to reach again

 

- They're losing brand favorability with every day this current spat goes on, even though they could make major concessions to the players and still be north of 50/50 in revenue moving forward

 

- They've not really invested in youth outreach beyond RBI. They've also dragged their feet on in market streaming and lifting the archaic in market streaming rules. All opportunities to spend a little short term money and expand the audience. They have to their credit cozied up with the online sports books.

 

Smart long term thinking would be to only take ~50% of "baseball revenue" to keep the MLBPA complacent while enjoying skyrocketing franchise values and continually expanding baseball adjacent revenue streams that the PA wouldn't get their fingers in. The PA would have essentially rubber stamped this CBA. Now they're fighting tooth and nail, and there's probably going to be enough left over acrimony for this to happen again in 5 years.

[CubinNY]

The owners think they will get a better deal if they 1) delay the process for as long as possible and 2) seek 3rd party mediation up to a point of giving a final and best offer before they get a ruling. As always, the owners have their eyes on long term profit maximization over all else. They are so greedy they are killing the sport in order to wrestle every last nickel they can out of the fans and players.

 

I actually think the problem is not enough long term thinking.

 

- 5 years ago the MLBPA was fat and happy. Willing to sell amateurs down the river for roomier bus rides and like a dedicated omelette chef or w/e. MLB decided to pull back on FA spend, and now have a full on labor crisis

 

- Last year we got the weird bastardized 60 game season because small market owners were going to lose money on a per game basis with revenue sharing suspended. The league passed on two months of assuredly bonkers tv ratings, including far more young eyes than they'll ever reliably be able to reach again

 

- They're losing brand favorability with every day this current spat goes on, even though they could make major concessions to the players and still be north of 50/50 in revenue moving forward

 

- They've not really invested in youth outreach beyond RBI. They've also dragged their feet on in market streaming and lifting the archaic in market streaming rules. All opportunities to spend a little short term money and expand the audience. They have to their credit cozied up with the online sports books.

 

Smart long term thinking would be to only take ~50% of "baseball revenue" to keep the MLBPA complacent while enjoying skyrocketing franchise values and continually expanding baseball adjacent revenue streams that the PA wouldn't get their fingers in. The PA would have essentially rubber stamped this CBA. Now they're fighting tooth and nail, and there's probably going to be enough left over acrimony for this to happen again in 5 years.

Yes, I phrased that wrong. I agree.

[Sammy Sofa]

The owners think they will get a better deal if they 1) delay the process for as long as possible and 2) seek 3rd party mediation up to a point of giving a final and best offer before they get a ruling. As always, the owners have their eyes on long term profit maximization over all else. They are so greedy they are killing the sport in order to wrestle every last nickel they can out of the fans and players.

 

I actually think the problem is not enough long term thinking.

 

- 5 years ago the MLBPA was fat and happy. Willing to sell amateurs down the river for roomier bus rides and like a dedicated omelette chef or w/e. MLB decided to pull back on FA spend, and now have a full on labor crisis

 

- Last year we got the weird bastardized 60 game season because small market owners were going to lose money on a per game basis with revenue sharing suspended. The league passed on two months of assuredly bonkers tv ratings, including far more young eyes than they'll ever reliably be able to reach again

 

- They're losing brand favorability with every day this current spat goes on, even though they could make major concessions to the players and still be north of 50/50 in revenue moving forward

 

- They've not really invested in youth outreach beyond RBI. They've also dragged their feet on in market streaming and lifting the archaic in market streaming rules. All opportunities to spend a little short term money and expand the audience. They have to their credit cozied up with the online sports books.

 

Smart long term thinking would be to only take ~50% of "baseball revenue" to keep the MLBPA complacent while enjoying skyrocketing franchise values and continually expanding baseball adjacent revenue streams that the PA wouldn't get their fingers in. The PA would have essentially rubber stamped this CBA. Now they're fighting tooth and nail, and there's probably going to be enough left over acrimony for this to happen again in 5 years.

Yes, I phrased that wrong. I agree.

 

I think both of you are right; they're not looking at the long term picture in any kind of smart or meaningful way, but they are very clearly operating under the usual Disaster Capitalism "I'M GONNA LIVE FOREVER!!!!!" mantra. They THINK that long term they're going to make more money if they keep doing variations of the same horsefeathers like they've been doing it, and that's all that matters to them.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Sammy Sofa

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Smart long term thinking would be to only take ~50% of "baseball revenue" to keep the MLBPA complacent while enjoying skyrocketing franchise values and continually expanding baseball adjacent revenue streams that the PA wouldn't get their fingers in. The PA would have essentially rubber stamped this CBA. Now they're fighting tooth and nail, and there's probably going to be enough left over acrimony for this to happen again in 5 years.

 

MLBPA has been fairly specific that they aren't trying to peg a specific percentage of revenues. I'm not sure if they think that's a good concession(unlimited growth potential for owners), they don't trust MLB not to manipulate revenues in bad faith, they don't think the size of the pot is the problem compared to the inequality/competitive concerns, or some combination of those reasons.

[jersey cubs fan]

[Bertz]

Smart long term thinking would be to only take ~50% of "baseball revenue" to keep the MLBPA complacent while enjoying skyrocketing franchise values and continually expanding baseball adjacent revenue streams that the PA wouldn't get their fingers in. The PA would have essentially rubber stamped this CBA. Now they're fighting tooth and nail, and there's probably going to be enough left over acrimony for this to happen again in 5 years.

 

MLBPA has been fairly specific that they aren't trying to peg a specific percentage of revenues. I'm not sure if they think that's a good concession(unlimited growth potential for owners), they don't trust MLB not to manipulate revenues in bad faith, they don't think the size of the pot is the problem compared to the inequality/competitive concerns, or some combination of those reasons.

 

That's true. They're not anchoring to 50% or anything like that specifically because of the murkiness around "baseball revenue." But I think if the chart below looked less ugly the MLBPA would mostly be amenable to continuing the status quo, even if there was occasional rancor around stuff like the BAMtech sale not being included.

 

[Regular Show]

 

It was a good thing that the Players Association rejected the request for a federal mediator, and I think the owners know that was a foolish move. Federal mediators accomplish very little in these heated, complex discussions and it usually doesn't help resolve any outstanding issues. It would just be a waste of time. I knew ST was going to get delayed and we're probably going to miss some games as well. One person I spoke to a few weeks back predicted a 100-game season and I said ~120-game season this year... we'll see.

[Bertz]

https://twitter.com/Kevin_Goldstein/status/1491806828673449987?t=Lw7Um5ar5CezHI6GiY1jZQ&s=19

 

Manfred being vaguely conciliatory today. Hopefully that's actually reflected in Saturday's offer. We are very close to the point where the league's obstinance will cost them money, so them finally getting off their asses now wouldn't be shocking.

[Bertz]

 

So 30-35 days from an agreement to regular season games, meaning the self imposed deadline to get a deal done without impacting the regular season is sometime in the last few days of February.

[UMFan83]

How can he peddle this horsefeathers with a straight face:

 

 

[Tim]

How can he peddle this horsefeathers with a straight face:

 

 

That timeframe is a little bit cherry picked given the crash in 2002. I'm sure he'd be able to cherry pick time frames where his statement is true.

[UMFan83]

How can he peddle this horsefeathers with a straight face:

 

 

That timeframe is a little bit cherry picked given the crash in 2002. I'm sure he'd be able to cherry pick time frames where his statement is true.

 

But either way his entire statement is cherry-picked and misleading. Franchise values have more than quadrupled over that time period. Acting like the poor owners who are selflessly choosing to own teams despite it being a bad investment is a terrible look IMO, but I realize its his job to put owners in that light when in a labor battle.

[CubinNY]

How can he peddle this horsefeathers with a straight face:

 

 

That timeframe is a little bit cherry picked given the crash in 2002. I'm sure he'd be able to cherry pick time frames where his statement is true.

Maybe, but it's a 20-year time span, so I'd say it's probably a pretty valid assumption.

[CoolHandLuke]

To me it seems like you'd have to do a lot more cherry picking to support Manfred's statement than to disprove it.