So...Now What?

[Tryptamine]

I had completely forgotten about it until today, but the Cubs still have no GM right? It's just Hoyer as president and 3 others as Asst GMs, correct? I wonder when the last time a team went a full season without a GM happened.

[cl smooth]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CSHi3HGtZoK

[toonsterwu]

Yeah, Hoerner's obviously valuable. I mean the genesis of this convo is how similar he and Madrigal are, literally four days ago Nick brought back a Hall of Fame closer in the midst of maybe his best season.

 

I don't like the idea of trading Hoerner though. I'm among the most optimistic about next season, but even I think next year's team is probably going to be light on starpower. I think we need to get back to the days of having 11 guys fighting for 9 spots. Let Hoerner backup 2B, SS, and CF, kinda like Javy circa 2015 (I know Javy barely touched CF).

I thought the genesis was something about Hoerner getting the Cubs a quality starting pitcher.

 

I don't think he gets them anything good for the rotation, he's 24+ oft injured with a very limited resume. He looks like a more valuable to the Cubs than anybody else kind of player. This team is very short on major league talent for the next couple years. They need him to fill a spot until they decide to start trying again.

 

I haven't read the other posts yet, just checked the site right now, but I'm guessing it had to do with my post?

 

Anyhow, I'm not sure individually, Hoerner can land a controllable SP. Maybe one that was headed into their walk year. Maybe. That said, he's had a decent season, has some attributes teams look for, and with his size, I'm guessing that, even though the Cubs haven't made it happen, some teams might think they could coax some more pop out of him.

 

Anyhow, my original thinking was very specific, pairing him with Willson and targeting the Marlins (I did throw the A's in there as a thought with Lowrie as a FA and Allen maybe needing another half season, but Allen's long term spot is likely at short). Marlins don't have much in terms of young MI's, are looking for controllable positional assets (reported post-deadline), had interest in Contreras last year as they were looking to upgrade at C, and are deep on the arm side.

 

More a "random August thought" than anything serious.

[toonsterwu]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CSHi3HGtZoK

 

Ouch. Sounds like Rizzo's hinting that the guys were unhappy as well.

 

Hoyer made the right decision, IMO, but Hoyer might've been better off not saying anything.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Could it be that Hoyer wants to create his team? Wipe away Theos guys for the sake of his own legacy?

[CubinNY]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CSHi3HGtZoK

 

Ouch. Sounds like Rizzo's hinting that the guys were unhappy as well.

 

Hoyer made the right decision, IMO, but Hoyer might've been better off not saying anything.

Hoyer would have been better off saying they tried to come to an agreement but the sides were too far apart. How hard is it to say that instead of they never negotiated? Instead, he sounds like a prick and everyone's idea of a terrible boss.

 

FWIW, I think they should have tried harder with Rizzo. Byrant probably was going to go to FA. Baez was great and I love watching him play, but I wouldn't sign him to an extension for what he's going to ask for.

[champaignchris]

Ouch. Sounds like Rizzo's hinting that the guys were unhappy as well.

 

Would not surprise me. From the outside looking in, something has just seemed “off” about this team since at least the end of the 2018 season. Hard to put a finger on it, but I would not be surprised if some unhappy “behind the scenes” stories start coming out now that most of the principals are no longer in the locker room.

[UMFan83]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CSHi3HGtZoK

 

Ouch. Sounds like Rizzo's hinting that the guys were unhappy as well.

 

Hoyer made the right decision, IMO, but Hoyer might've been better off not saying anything.

 

It sounds like the common denominator he is referring to is the Cubs not offering any of the 3 what they believe they are worth. Not sure if that is what you were implying or if you thought his comments were referring to some other unknown reason why all 3 chose not to resign in Chicago. I certainly hope its the former because the later has ramifications as Jed attempts to rebuild the team.

 

But Rizzo going out of his way to go on ESPN 1000 to fire back on Jed's comments is definitely not a great look for the Cubs.

[CubinNY]

I certainly hope its the former because the later has ramifications as Jed attempts to rebuild the team.

 

Money talks, but I guess they won't be getting any "I just want to be in a great atmosphere" discounts in FA negotiations.

[Backtobanks]

I think Hoerner will be a solid ML starter for a long time. Trading Hoerner just opens up one more hole to plug on a team with tons of holes already. Sign a few mid-level FAs (Gray, Rodon, Pham, etc.), trade Bote + prospects for Mancini, and re-evalute and do what's necessary next trade deadline or next off season.

[OleMissCub]

There is NO reason to trade Niko.

[UMFan83]

I listened to the entire Rizzo interview and its definitely not as bad as those quotes make it seem. He even talks about what a strong relationship he has with Jed and how they talked after everything settled down after the trade. Also spoke with Theo a bit too. I think he's definitely annoyed at the comments and frustrated the Cubs didnt come close to the number he was expecting for an extension, but I don't think the Jed comments and his response burned any bridges. I'm not saying he's re-signing or anything but I wouldn't take it off the table based on this interview. He did deflect when directly asked if he'd consider the Cubs this offseason though.

 

One interesting thing he said is when asked about what changed after the NLCS runs he mentioned that Tim Buss leaving the organization after 2018 really changed the culture in the clubhouse.

[d_money]

Tony 2 Chains won’t get a guaranteed deal higher than 3 years in FA. He’s pissed he didn’t sign the purported 5 year$70M deal he was offered.

[Thusly Boned]

Tony 2 Chains won’t get a guaranteed deal higher than 3 years in FA. He’s pissed he didn’t sign the purported 5 year$70M deal he was offered.

 

None of these guys are going to get what they want, imo. The market paradigm has definitely shifted from paying for past performance to paying for future performance. Bryant isn't going to get paid for 2015-17, and Baez isn't going to get paid for his 2018/19, either. The risk that an up and coming star isn't going to continue to develop is probably less off putting than the virtual guarantee of post prime regression.

 

In that way players of Baez/Rizzo/Bryant's vintage are in a bad place, with one foot in the perform and then cash in in FA era, and another in the get paid early era. None of them are going to get their big payday.

 

I think it's entirely likely we don't see many signings outside of the Lindor/Tatis style early career megadeals until the CBA is settled, which is almost certainly going to be an acrimonious affair.

[The_Achiever]

Tony 2 Chains won’t get a guaranteed deal higher than 3 years in FA. He’s pissed he didn’t sign the purported 5 year$70M deal he was offered.

 

It's really going to be interesting to see what these guys sign for. I would love a timeline and corresponding values for any Cubs offers made to them.

 

I could see the Yankees actually overpaying for Rizzo if he continues to produce for them (3/60 or 4/75 ish). I think KB eventually gets 5/130 from somone (probably the Giants) and Baez gets 5/110 from the Mets.

[WrigleyField 22]

Tony 2 Chains won’t get a guaranteed deal higher than 3 years in FA. He’s pissed he didn’t sign the purported 5 year$70M deal he was offered.

 

It's really going to be interesting to see what these guys sign for. I would love a timeline and corresponding values for any Cubs offers made to them.

 

I could see the Yankees actually overpaying for Rizzo if he continues to produce for them (3/60 or 4/75 ish). I think KB eventually gets 5/130 from somone (probably the Giants) and Baez gets 5/110 from the Mets.

That's a bummer if it's what it takes for Bryant/Baez.

[The_Achiever]

Tony 2 Chains won’t get a guaranteed deal higher than 3 years in FA. He’s pissed he didn’t sign the purported 5 year$70M deal he was offered.

 

It's really going to be interesting to see what these guys sign for. I would love a timeline and corresponding values for any Cubs offers made to them.

 

I could see the Yankees actually overpaying for Rizzo if he continues to produce for them (3/60 or 4/75 ish). I think KB eventually gets 5/130 from somone (probably the Giants) and Baez gets 5/110 from the Mets.

That's a bummer if it's what it takes for Bryant/Baez.

 

Well I'm talking directly out of my ass on this. Also I think their performance over the last couple months will matter what they ultimately end up with.

 

I know this makes me seem like a Ricketts **** but paying +$200 million for either of these guys just seems like a bad decision. With the big caveats that of course it's not my money and usually there's always one or two teams willing to spend recklessly (so they may be able to match or exceed what the Cubs offered).

[Backtobanks]

An analysis of the Cubs is @ MLBTR. Pretty much everything we've been saying, but it's less biased than most of us.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I'd give them ea $100 mil a year for 2 years and tell them to do their best and horsefeathers the Ricketts. They can afford it

[Bote McBoteface]

I think Hoerner will be a solid ML starter for a long time. Trading Hoerner just opens up one more hole to plug on a team with tons of holes already. Sign a few mid-level FAs (Gray, Rodon, Pham, etc.), trade Bote + prospects for Mancini, and re-evalute and do what's necessary next trade deadline or next off season.

 

 

FWIW Hoerner turns into the best second baseman in baseball if you sim your MLB The Show franchise to 2026.

[Backtobanks]

I think Hoerner will be a solid ML starter for a long time. Trading Hoerner just opens up one more hole to plug on a team with tons of holes already. Sign a few mid-level FAs (Gray, Rodon, Pham, etc.), trade Bote + prospects for Mancini, and re-evalute and do what's necessary next trade deadline or next off season.

 

 

FWIW Hoerner turns into the best second baseman in baseball if you sim your MLB The Show franchise to 2026.

 

That's pretty close to the time line the Cubs have for their next good team.

[UMFan83]

Cubs pregame show has an “exclusive interview” with Tom Ricketts coming up in a few minutes. I’m sure it will be a bunch of nothing

 

Also Jed was interviewed pregame and basically apologized for his statements yesterday.

[d_money]

Cubs pregame show has an “exclusive interview” with Tom Ricketts coming up in a few minutes. I’m sure it will be a bunch of nothing

 

Also Jed was interviewed pregame and basically apologized for his statements yesterday.

Jeds not long for this world, he’s gonna get chewed up and spit out - a combo of Ricketts and the fans putting the screws to him.

[David]

I think Hoerner will be a solid ML starter for a long time. Trading Hoerner just opens up one more hole to plug on a team with tons of holes already. Sign a few mid-level FAs (Gray, Rodon, Pham, etc.), trade Bote + prospects for Mancini, and re-evalute and do what's necessary next trade deadline or next off season.

 

 

FWIW Hoerner turns into the best second baseman in baseball if you sim your MLB The Show franchise to 2026.

 

That's pretty close to the time line the Cubs have for their next good team.

 

pretty shocked you had zero posts in here from the reboot in early 2016 until the 2017 offseason.

[EricG]

can we blame COVID for the Cubs dismantling?

 

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