Good riddance

[Andy]

Which major news of the day do you think Tom and Todd are more upset about?

 

they're fine with the cubs. anything that makes the fans more amenable to a firesale and rebuild is probably good for them.

Absolutely. They're dying for a reason to slash payroll, especially now that the money isn't coming in as much. They're perfectly content with the idea that our fan base is going to start calling for a tear-down.

 

BTW, I love all the '16 Cubs, all of them, and I'll never say a negative word about them, but we're definitely in "I can't miss you if you won't leave" territory at this point. I like Rizzo for what he does off the field so I don't want him to go, but I'm kinda good either way with just about everybody else from the core (Hendricks is signed a while so he is clearly staying too).

[17 Seconds]

i don't want to do it, but yu and hendricks would get some pretty awesome packages in return, yea?

[Cubswin11]

[17 Seconds]

 

didnt you say you wanted a full rebuild? I see a lot of cubs fans talking about a full teardown and rebuild while also saying they want to keep hendricks and darvish. if you're doing a full rebuild, those are like the first 2 guys to go.

 

I think the only way you keep darvish is if you plan on competing no later than 2022 (while trying a yankee style reboot). and even then you should probably still trade him now, considering his age and health history.

 

basically the only way it makes sense to keep yu is if we're trying to win next year, which I think we should be doing. just with a completely different offense.

[Cubswin11]

 

didnt you say you wanted a full rebuild? I see a lot of cubs fans talking about a full teardown and rebuild while also saying they want to keep hendricks and darvish. if you're doing a full rebuild, those are like the first 2 guys to go.

 

I think the only way you keep darvish is if you plan on competing no later than 2022 (while trying a yankee style reboot). and even then you should probably still trade him now, considering his age and health history.

 

basically the only way it makes sense to keep yu is if we're trying to win next year, which I think we should be doing. just with a completely different offense.

I said a lot of things. Do whatever, it probably doesn’t matter. There probably aren’t the moves to be much better next year. But still enough to win this horsefeathers division. There are moves to do a soft rebuild this offseason and head in to the 2021-22 offseason with money to spend in a great FA class, but that also requires Yu and Hendricks to still be good then.

[mias_tisg]

the frustrating thing is that they could still easily contend if they'd spend just a little bit and if theo could just find a way to make the offense decent. we already have two controlled TOR pitchers on the roster and that's like the hardest part.

Why do people keep pretending spending money equals wins? They just lost to the team with the lowest payroll in baseball. The resources have been put into this team, the players just aren't good enough.

[Sammy Sofa]

Trading everyone but Darvish and Hendricks hoping prospects will save us again is basically the Mets. I would rather not be the Mets

 

It's too late.

[Sammy Sofa]

the frustrating thing is that they could still easily contend if they'd spend just a little bit and if theo could just find a way to make the offense decent. we already have two controlled TOR pitchers on the roster and that's like the hardest part.

Why do people keep pretending spending money equals wins? They just lost to the team with the lowest payroll in baseball. The resources have been put into this team, the players just aren't good enough.

 

Agreed; Theo is bad at everything except complete teardowns and rebuilds.

[gopher72]

The most reliable predictor of future injury is still past injury.

 

Correct but, you know, beyond a doubt, because its the Cubs, Bryant will magically become Cal Ripken Jr. after being traded.

 

Send him to the AL.

[imb]

It's too late.

 

Yeah, I said it like I was delivering a big scoop but it's already true

 

OTOH, I like the Mets these days...Lots of bats, they have an ace and Syndergaard's going to be back, underrated farm...

 

their ace has had TJ and is nearing the end of his warranty

 

thor sucks and is hurt

 

theyre the mets

[Derwood]

The problem with getting rid of Theo is who out there is a better option? 95% of baseball GMs suck

[UMFan83]

 

Seems to me like Theo is trying to bolt this offseason. I don’t blame him...if the Cubs were in a clear contention window that just needs a few changes he’d likely stay but by staying here for this team he would likely be kicking off a rebuilding/retooling process a year before he hands it off to another person. If that person is Jed, I guess it makes a lot more sense for him to stay.

 

Either way, if Theo leaves this offseason he’s leaving the team in a really shitty position honesty. The farm is considered mediocre by the most optimistic people, the core is broken and have the lowest value in their careers, the owners are trying to slash payroll and there’s still considerable long term contracts on the books.

 

 

Theo will leave an interesting legacy in Chicago. There is no question he will be celebrated rightfully for building that World Championship team and by far the most successful run of Cubs baseball since maybe the 30s or possibly ever. He is an unquestioned all time legend for this.

 

But there are questionable contracts given out that fared poorly, trades that were made that seemingly gave up too much value (though almost all were justifiable at the time of trade and some directly impacted the world championship). And the decision to sit on this offensive core that he deemed broken exactly 2 years ago is so confusing to me, though clearly we don’t know what went on behind the scenes.

 

But the biggest issue I’ve had is the inability to develop talent, particularly after 2016. He’s done a good job with 1st rounders and International FAs but he’s developed almost nothing at all in the draft beyond the 1st round. Here are all the players that Theo has drafted after the 1st round that have had a positive WAR with the Cubs:

 

2012 - Underwood (2nd, 0.1 WAR)

2012 - Bote (6th, 3.4)

2013 - Zastryzny (2nd, 0.2)

 

That’s it...that’s the list. Now I acknowledge that I’m placing this all on Theo when there were many people involved with building the Cubs developmental system, some who likely had more impact than Theo, but as the VP of Baseball Ops ultimately he receives blame for this.

 

If we were able to develop more talent in the past few years, there would be less concern about the payroll being capped and less need to stick with the current offensive core. The Cubs depth was greatly celebrated in 2015-2017 but was a glaring issue the last 2 seasons. Im not saying the Cubs should have been developing superstars to replace Schwarber and Bryant from mid-round picks but I think almost every team gets contributions from players drafted beyond the 1st round.

 

I’d love to hear push back on these thoughts as I’d really like to appreciate Theo’s entire tenure rather than the first 5 years. No doubt he did some good things in the later years. Yu turned out to be a great signing and much needed this year. His ability to build a bullpen from scraps amazed me every year. He managed to keep the team competitive despite other issues which is recognized and appreciated. But can’t help but feel at least a small amount of disappointment for how things have gone the past 2-3 years.

[Cubswin11]

Can be disappointed by the results of the last 3 years but still appreciative overall and realize he still did a pretty damn good job and accomplished exactly what he was brought in for. The farm isn’t in that bad of a spot and a lot of the overall infrastructure he had to build from scratch is still here with revamping things from the Hendry era (which undoubtably any new guy or even Jed will have changes towards and hopefully improve, but the foundation is in a much better spot now vs when Hendry was out).

 

There really isn’t considerable money past this year unless there’s extensions. Yu, Heyward, Hendricks, Happ, Willy, Bote, Nico, and some of the cheaper pitchers are the only guys around after 21. The team should be able to spend by going in to the 2022 and 23 seasons even if they don’t go up against the LT (or whatever the new CBA brings).

 

Failing to develop pitching was the downfall but that’s the hardest thing to do in baseball (not an excuse, just facts) along with going with the pitch ability guys over velo when the whole league was going for velo. It also was by design during the main push and focusing more on pitching from 2012-2015 in drafts maybe it doesn’t net us a ring. The core stagnating, being too redundant with approach and thinking they would just grow and adapt and be able to grow their approach vs pulling the plug on a guy or two to have a deeper/more diverse offense also isn’t wise with hindsight.

 

I’m most interested to know what really happened with budgets and spending, was he really promised there would always be money to spend and then the rug was pulled due to Rickett’s/Crane’s incompetence with developing around the park, renovations, TV deal, and being greedy? Or did Theo just spend knowing money might not always be there and did it anyways at risk of not being able to add the last 2-3 years thinking he could talk them in to things and never could?

 

Maybe Jed is fine but I’d prefer we poach someone from the Rays, Yankees or Dodgers when Theo goes (be it this year or next).

Edited October 3, 2020 by Cubswin11

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Just like when the job was open last time, I want someone unestablished. I want someone young, hungry, full of ideas about how current baseball paradigms are wrong and could be done better. Not someone trying to copy past success.

[17 Seconds]

the frustrating thing is that they could still easily contend if they'd spend just a little bit and if theo could just find a way to make the offense decent. we already have two controlled TOR pitchers on the roster and that's like the hardest part.

Why do people keep pretending spending money equals wins? They just lost to the team with the lowest payroll in baseball. The resources have been put into this team, the players just aren't good enough.

 

do you think mookie betts would have helped this team this year? dj lemahieu? any of the million bats that signed the last 2 offseasons?

 

obviously the core was a huge problem year, but to say that spending more doesnt help you win is pure idiocy. pointing out exceptions doesnt make it less true.

[CyHawk_Cub]

Hickory High won the state championship, who needs guys taller than 6' 2" to win in basketball.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

the frustrating thing is that they could still easily contend if they'd spend just a little bit and if theo could just find a way to make the offense decent. we already have two controlled TOR pitchers on the roster and that's like the hardest part.

Why do people keep pretending spending money equals wins? They just lost to the team with the lowest payroll in baseball. The resources have been put into this team, the players just aren't good enough.

 

do you think mookie betts would have helped this team this year? dj lemahieu? any of the million bats that signed the last 2 offseasons?

 

obviously the core was a huge problem year, but to say that spending more doesnt help you win is pure idiocy. pointing out exceptions doesnt make it less true.

 

The poster might just be saying that money can't be used as an excuse since they had the fourth-highest payroll this season, one year after having the second-highest. And despite that, the Cubs still weren't very good and that's a big disappointment considering teams spend much less yet are better despite the advantage we have in that department.

 

On the other hand, that might not be what he meant. For the record, I would like to see them spend $400 million since it's not my money and I don't spend much on the team and therefore don't pay huge ticket prices to attend many games. However, I also don't think it's a valid excuse for why we just haven't been very inspiring in the recent past.

[Backtobanks]

Just like when the job was open last time, I want someone unestablished. I want someone young, hungry, full of ideas about how current baseball paradigms are wrong and could be done better. Not someone trying to copy past success.

 

This could be a way to improve the Cubs. Get a top young player as compensation from the receiving team for Theo and bring in someone younger and cheaper to replace him. Let the new guy decide which of the core players to trade to add to the youth movement. Making that one big trade, signing a mid-priced FA (Cesar Hernandez ?). and the compensation player could go pretty far in keeping them competitive while getting younger.

[Gilby]

People everywhere are reading too much into the 10 year thing. I think Theo just got tired of his bosses' meddling in Boston. Not saying he won't leave soon, but it'd be due to other factors. Also there's no way he leaves $5+ million on the table for the 2021 season.

 

I don't anticipate big changes to the roster, aside from maybe trading Contreras for pretty good value. Hoping for a bounce back from the infield + 2 legitimate top of rotation arms will be the storyline going into next year imo.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

People everywhere are reading too much into the 10 year thing. I think Theo just got tired of his bosses' meddling in Boston. Not saying he won't leave soon, but it'd be due to other factors. Also there's no way he leaves $5+ million on the table for the 2021 season.

 

I don't anticipate big changes to the roster, aside from maybe trading Contreras for pretty good value. Hoping for a bounce back from the infield + 2 legitimate top of rotation arms will be the storyline going into next year imo.

 

It does appear that it's all but been determined that Theo won't be back after next season at the latest. Agreed that he isn't just going to walk away from the $10 million he is going to get for 2021, but it wouldn't be shocking to see them come up with an exit plan when they meet.

 

I love Theo and will miss him. Wish he'd stay for another decade, but he did what we all dreamed and hoped he'd do and has more than earned the right to write the end of his Cubs chapter however he wants.

[Bertz]

 

A good article on the different schools that various front offices fall into, if you want to look at the different directions we could go post-Theo.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Ah yes the famous swashbuckler Andrew Friedman, definitely more of a gambler than *checks notes* Jerry Dipoto?

[hawkeyecub]

 

Seems to me like Theo is trying to bolt this offseason. I don’t blame him...if the Cubs were in a clear contention window that just needs a few changes he’d likely stay but by staying here for this team he would likely be kicking off a rebuilding/retooling process a year before he hands it off to another person. If that person is Jed, I guess it makes a lot more sense for him to stay.

 

Either way, if Theo leaves this offseason he’s leaving the team in a really horsefeathers position honesty. The farm is considered mediocre by the most optimistic people, the core is broken and have the lowest value in their careers, the owners are trying to slash payroll and there’s still considerable long term contracts on the books.

 

 

Theo will leave an interesting legacy in Chicago. There is no question he will be celebrated rightfully for building that World Championship team and by far the most successful run of Cubs baseball since maybe the 30s or possibly ever. He is an unquestioned all time legend for this.

 

But there are questionable contracts given out that fared poorly, trades that were made that seemingly gave up too much value (though almost all were justifiable at the time of trade and some directly impacted the world championship). And the decision to sit on this offensive core that he deemed broken exactly 2 years ago is so confusing to me, though clearly we don’t know what went on behind the scenes.

 

But the biggest issue I’ve had is the inability to develop talent, particularly after 2016. He’s done a good job with 1st rounders and International FAs but he’s developed almost nothing at all in the draft beyond the 1st round. Here are all the players that Theo has drafted after the 1st round that have had a positive WAR with the Cubs:

 

2012 - Underwood (2nd, 0.1 WAR)

2012 - Bote (6th, 3.4)

2013 - Zastryzny (2nd, 0.2)

 

That’s it...that’s the list. Now I acknowledge that I’m placing this all on Theo when there were many people involved with building the Cubs developmental system, some who likely had more impact than Theo, but as the VP of Baseball Ops ultimately he receives blame for this.

 

If we were able to develop more talent in the past few years, there would be less concern about the payroll being capped and less need to stick with the current offensive core. The Cubs depth was greatly celebrated in 2015-2017 but was a glaring issue the last 2 seasons. Im not saying the Cubs should have been developing superstars to replace Schwarber and Bryant from mid-round picks but I think almost every team gets contributions from players drafted beyond the 1st round.

 

I’d love to hear push back on these thoughts as I’d really like to appreciate Theo’s entire tenure rather than the first 5 years. No doubt he did some good things in the later years. Yu turned out to be a great signing and much needed this year. His ability to build a bullpen from scraps amazed me every year. He managed to keep the team competitive despite other issues which is recognized and appreciated. But can’t help but feel at least a small amount of disappointment for how things have gone the past 2-3 years.

 

His legacy won't be interesting or up for debate in hindsight. He won the first World Series in 108 years. Tore down a mediocre organization, built a team that went to 3 straight NLCS and playoffs 5 of 6 years with a World Series title. That's the legacy.

[SouthSideRyan]

The problem with getting rid of Theo is who out there is a better option? 95% of baseball GMs suck

 

Are you from 1995?

 

Can Bonifay ain’t walking through that door.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

The problem with getting rid of Theo is who out there is a better option? 95% of baseball GMs suck

 

Are you from 1995?

 

Can Bonifay ain’t walking through that door.

I’d like to see the wheel you spun to land on that name.