2019-20 Offseason Rumors/General Chit-Chat

[Deeg]

I know you all love Margot, but that + part coming along with him for Willy better be horsefeathering good.

 

The continued obsession with Margot continues to astound me. For a player of Contreras' caliber he's a third piece at best.

[Cubswin11]

I know you all love Margot, but that + part coming along with him for Willy better be horsefeathering good.

 

The continued obsession with Margot continues to astound me. For a player of Contreras' caliber he's a third piece at best.

The reason I continue to name him in a deal with them is because he can fill a huge hole (CF defense, hitting vs LHP and pedigree to improve). But I do not mean to name him in a deal for Willy as the main piece, just a known piece I want. There’s like 4-10 other pieces with some of the pitching they have that will be the main piece, imo. It’s just not worth naming all them every time it comes up. Lamet is the “main piece” I want now in a deal with them but I get why others would want other pitchers of theirs.

[Cubswin11]

 

[Post Count Padder]

horsefeathering hell

 

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[Bertz]

 

Rendon to the Angels and Donaldson to the Rangers has to be viewed as the most likely scenario at this point

[Tryptamine]

Sitting back and doing nothing is the absolute worst option possible. All you get is a mediocre team with assets decreasing in value.

[Cubswin11]

How aren’t their fans rioting? At least we once spent and pushed chips in and won instead of trying to win the efficiency Olympics.

 

[Cubswin11]

[We Got The Whole 9]

I'm seriously despising our inability to move bad money. horsefeathering get creative. Hell, you could have just moved Q. I'd rather have Lindblom at 3/9 than him at 1/10, risk of him not translating seamlessly be damned.

[KingCubsFan]

I'm seriously despising our inability to move bad money. horsefeathering get creative. Hell, you could have just moved Q. I'd rather have Lindblom at 3/9 than him at 1/10, risk of him not translating seamlessly be damned.

I’d rather have Q. He gets shitted on because of how much we gave up and the fact that he hasn’t quite lived up to expectations, but he’s also 25th in WAR among pitchers since joining the Cubs. There’s 20 Josh Lindbloms every year in free agency.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm seriously despising our inability to move bad money. horsefeathering get creative. Hell, you could have just moved Q. I'd rather have Lindblom at 3/9 than him at 1/10, risk of him not translating seamlessly be damned.

 

The farm giveth, and the farm taketh away.

 

The system bottoming out for a while there really killed their ability to dump bad contracts since you often have to sweeten the pot to do so. Now that they do actually have some decent/interesting prospects again, the perfect storm of the Cubs having no money and Theo being King of the Prospect Hoarders has them terrified to move anyone who could be cheap and useful.

[ConstableRabbit]

I'm seriously despising our inability to move bad money. horsefeathering get creative. Hell, you could have just moved Q. I'd rather have Lindblom at 3/9 than him at 1/10, risk of him not translating seamlessly be damned.

 

The farm giveth, and the farm taketh away.

 

The system bottoming out for a while there really killed their ability to dump bad contracts since you often have to sweeten the pot to do so. Now that they do actually have some decent/interesting prospects again, the perfect storm of the Cubs having no money and Theo being King of the Prospect Hoarders has them terrified to move anyone who could be cheap and useful.

The King of Prospect Hoarders who executed two of the biggest prospect-driven trades of the last few years? That’s constantly brought up?

[Brian]

Yeah the King of Prospect Hoarders is in LA with no rings.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm seriously despising our inability to move bad money. horsefeathering get creative. Hell, you could have just moved Q. I'd rather have Lindblom at 3/9 than him at 1/10, risk of him not translating seamlessly be damned.

 

The farm giveth, and the farm taketh away.

 

The system bottoming out for a while there really killed their ability to dump bad contracts since you often have to sweeten the pot to do so. Now that they do actually have some decent/interesting prospects again, the perfect storm of the Cubs having no money and Theo being King of the Prospect Hoarders has them terrified to move anyone who could be cheap and useful.

The King of Prospect Hoarders who executed two of the biggest prospect-driven trades of the last few years? That’s constantly brought up?

 

Hence why he's extra flop-sweaty about doing it now.

 

I mean besides the constant DT's.

[We Got The Whole 9]

I'm seriously despising our inability to move bad money. horsefeathering get creative. Hell, you could have just moved Q. I'd rather have Lindblom at 3/9 than him at 1/10, risk of him not translating seamlessly be damned.

I’d rather have Q. He gets horsefeathers on because of how much we gave up and the fact that he hasn’t quite lived up to expectations, but he’s also 25th in WAR among pitchers since joining the Cubs. There’s 20 Josh Lindbloms every year in free agency.

Q is whatever. Kudos to him for tidying up his KBB so that fg would like him enough, but his run prevention is on a sharp decline. Despite moving to a more pitcher friendly park and having a better defense behind him he has accumulated less than half of the bwar with us than he did in the 3.5 seasons prior with the Sox. Before we got him he was excellent according to both systems. Now we are just grateful that one finds him to be good still.

[squally1313]

I'm seriously despising our inability to move bad money. horsefeathering get creative. Hell, you could have just moved Q. I'd rather have Lindblom at 3/9 than him at 1/10, risk of him not translating seamlessly be damned.

I’d rather have Q. He gets horsefeathers on because of how much we gave up and the fact that he hasn’t quite lived up to expectations, but he’s also 25th in WAR among pitchers since joining the Cubs. There’s 20 Josh Lindbloms every year in free agency.

Q is whatever. Kudos to him for tidying up his KBB so that fg would like him enough, but his run prevention is on a sharp decline. Despite moving to a more pitcher friendly park and having a better defense behind him he has accumulated less than half of the bwar with us than he did in the 3.5 seasons prior with the Sox. Before we got him he was excellent according to both systems. Now we are just grateful that one finds him to be good still.

While I think you're being a little harsh on Q in general...no one is expecting him to be the ace of this staff, which is, statistically, the kind of pitcher he was when we acquired him. Maybe not the best pitcher in our rotation, but a pretty clear top 15-20 starter in baseball. He's not that anymore, but he is absolutely better than Josh(?) Lindblom, or most of the other names people throw out there when they talk about replacements after 'dumping his salary'.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Trading Quintana is fine, but you backfill him with some combination of upside and longer term team control, not a 32 year old who washed out of MLB and had to find success in Korea.

[Sammy Sofa]

I’d rather have Q. He gets horsefeathers on because of how much we gave up and the fact that he hasn’t quite lived up to expectations, but he’s also 25th in WAR among pitchers since joining the Cubs. There’s 20 Josh Lindbloms every year in free agency.

Q is whatever. Kudos to him for tidying up his KBB so that fg would like him enough, but his run prevention is on a sharp decline. Despite moving to a more pitcher friendly park and having a better defense behind him he has accumulated less than half of the bwar with us than he did in the 3.5 seasons prior with the Sox. Before we got him he was excellent according to both systems. Now we are just grateful that one finds him to be good still.

While I think you're being a little harsh on Q in general...no one is expecting him to be the ace of this staff, which is, statistically, the kind of pitcher he was when we acquired him.

 

Maybe they didn't expressly expect him to become an "ace," but I think it's safe to say they expected more of a guy that they gave up what they gave up to get him.

[squally1313]

Q is whatever. Kudos to him for tidying up his KBB so that fg would like him enough, but his run prevention is on a sharp decline. Despite moving to a more pitcher friendly park and having a better defense behind him he has accumulated less than half of the bwar with us than he did in the 3.5 seasons prior with the Sox. Before we got him he was excellent according to both systems. Now we are just grateful that one finds him to be good still.

While I think you're being a little harsh on Q in general...no one is expecting him to be the ace of this staff, which is, statistically, the kind of pitcher he was when we acquired him.

 

Maybe they didn't expressly expect him to become an "ace," but I think it's safe to say they expected more of a guy that they gave up what they gave up to get him.

Yeah, that's fair, but really only if you look at 2018. He put up 2.1 fWAR in 84 innings after the trade in 2017, and 3.5 fWAR in 2019 is about what you'd expect on an age curve for someone like him. Obviously every game in 2018 ended up being crucial, but I think he gave us what we expected in 2017 and 2019.

[We Got The Whole 9]

Trading Quintana is fine, but you backfill him with some combination of upside and longer term team control, not a 32 year old who washed out of MLB and had to find success in Korea.

I have a feeling this will turn out really well for the Brewers. After all they did find success in another MLB washout who found himself in the KBO. The dude put up fantastic KBB last year, he should at least control the zone well, which is basically Q's most impactful contribution IMO.

 

I'm just frustrated with their lack of movement.

[Cubswin11]

All the national guys seem to be saying and hearing the same things

 

 

[Cubswin11]

A hard deadline on signing FA is really dumb, but if they got their senses together and “colluded” with the players and agents to have a general understanding horsefeathers is gonna largely be done FA wise by Christmas/early January that would be a good thing. Not apples to apples since it’s a capped league but the NBA basically has the wink-wink agreement between teams and players/agents to get FA deals done pretty quickly in to FA.

[Cubswin11]

A hard deadline on signing FA is really dumb, but if they got their senses together and “colluded” with the players and agents to have a general understanding horsefeathers is gonna largely be done FA wise by Christmas/early January that would be a good thing. Not apples to apples since it’s a capped league but the NBA basically has the wink-wink agreement between teams and players/agents to get FA deals done pretty quickly in to FA.

 

No, that would be a terrible thing because it's more of a threat than an olive branch. Probably the owners decided they needed a high optics winter meetings that wouldn't hurt their chances at both the salary cap and signing deadline, decided who was getting the big FAs and even the runners up (because fans are easy and apparently there's value in being said to have made a legit offer) well ahead of time, and then used their various media outlets to spread the good word that all is good or better now time for the players to make concessions we stopped testing MiLers smoking weed too everything is awesome

How is that a threat If they got their senses together to go back to how it largely use to be before the last 2 offseasons with timing of the signings? (which was the biggest issue the last 2 years imo, because guys still ended up mostly getting paid it was just ridiculous things took to February or March to sign dudes)..

[Cubswin11]

How is that a threat If they got their senses together to go back to how it largely use to be before the last 2 offseasons with timing of the signings? (which was the biggest issue the last 2 years imo, because guys still ended up mostly getting paid it was just ridiculous things took to February or March to sign dudes)..

 

Coming off two horrendously bad faith offseasons where all the top guys signed for below early expectations very late and many had it worse despite being productive, why would the owners approaching with a tight timeline be seen as anything but a threat? Do you also think those previous offseason' signings came so late because the FAs were sifting through a pile of competitive offers?

What was so bad faith other than it dragging out? The top guys signed for below expectations my ass. Harper, Machado, etc. all got huge deals unless you believed the $500 million thing. Other guys still largely ended up with getting paid fairly/what they should. I think the owners realized the dragging out was a bad look and things need to look better for optics. I don’t know why the signings came so late, I’m sure it was for a lot of reasons. Partly on players potentially holding out/passing on deals (we heard this with Moustakas for example), partly on teams.

 

Now this isn’t to say the system doesn’t needs fixing, it does. Especially with minor league pay and earnings in pre-FA years and getting teams off using the LT as a cap. But generally speaking, other than the timing and dragging out of things, guys still got compensated pretty fairly with how they should’ve as FA on a whole the last two years.