Let the hate flow thread - our rosters have been totally mismanaged

[imb]

insert the "prove me wrong" meme here

 

I'm not necessarily calling my shot here, but it doesn't take an insane amount of doom-bonering to kind of squint and see that we might be on the edge of a cliff.

 

We are going to wrap up 2018 and start our offseason with

- 3/5ths of a rotation (Lester/Quintana/Darvish) who we can't count on.

- Hendricks, who we know will suck for at least two months.

- a closer who can't pitch more than once a week without breaking.

- an outfield featuring a LF with the same wRC+ as Denard Span and Mallex Smith who requires unsustainable defensive success to be anything more than a 2.5 WAR guy, a couple of CFs who amount to 12 feet of sh!t, and a RF with declining defense whose "fixed" state is a bottom of the order slap hitter.

- an IF with a 3B who looked primed to be our generational guy and whose ultimate 2019 ceiling is a question mark, a 1B who is probably hitting his decline phase (but still really good,) a SS who despite his power numbers will need to continue being the only guy in baseball history to slide/tag/run the bases like he does in order to remain a 5 WAR player, 97-year-old Zobrist who has been resurgent but who can't be counted on for 4 wins again next year, and a catcher who forgot how to hit for several months.

 

Our coaching staff somehow lost a fat racist and got worse. The hitting coach is either (best case) ineffective or (worst case) actively harming the offense. The pitching coach got here and coincided with several career-worst years and season-ending injuries, and our head coach is trump-loving buffoon only a fraction less-bad than our wife-beating former shortstop.

 

In the minors there is nothing. The only thing resembling an impactful starter strikes out about 7 batters/9 in the upper minors and lost the season to a lat injury. There's a catcher who has best been described as being "pretty good at defense," and a bunch of guys you can wish-cast on while forgetting for a moment that none of them are anything resembling "cant-miss" in an organization where more than half of our previous "can't-miss" guys missed. Our international signings have been ass. For all of Theo's "we'll just restock" rhetoric, they haven't proven the ability to do that without a bunch of top-5 picks.

 

It's likely that in 10 years no one will miss Eloy or Cease, but guess what, we won't miss Quintana either.

 

I reserve the right to delete and/or edit this if we play well in the postseason.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

waves

[minnesotacubsfan]

"...people act like the minor league system can not be replenished.." - our youthful and hopeful leader

[Andy]

I'm hesitant to completely blame the FO for what's happened with Darvish (who was, post-TJS, pretty healthy as pitchers go until inexplicably self-immolating this year) or Russell (highly doubt they saw his personal problems nor his utter inability to hit coming). Those things were probably bad luck.

 

The rest is fair game. The Morrow thing never really made sense for any reason other than 'he was cheaper than Wade', and the results of that have been predictable. The Quintana trade probably won us the division last year but he mostly hasn't been what we were told we were getting. And the coaching staff shakeup, that also never really made sense, looks like an unmitigated disaster.

 

Thank God we won in 16.

[Omar]

I got what I wanted in 2016.

 

Now do whatever the horsefeathers you want.

[jersey cubs fan]

I just think it's odd you think we can count on Darvish, but not Hendricks.

[imb]

I just think it's odd you think we can count on Darvish, but not Hendricks.

 

He's included at the very top

[Sammy Sofa]

This is a good thread and is the kind of reporting that will net this young go-getter the first of many Pulitzers.

[jersey cubs fan]

I just think it's odd you think we can count on Darvish, but not Hendricks.

 

He's included at the very top

oh wait, I read that wrong

[imb]

This is a good thread and is the kind of reporting that will net this young go-getter the first of many Pulitzers.

 

im a little surprised theo hasn't resigned yet but it is the lunch hour

[UMFan83]

I was going to write a devil's advocate type of response but I...am having a hard time. The future certainly doesn't look as bright these days.

[imb]

I was going to write a devil's advocate type of response but I...am having a hard time. The future certainly doesn't look as bright these days.

 

for the offense it's easy - Harper signs, Heyward moves to CF and platoons with Almora, Happ is moved for relief help, Bryant comes back healthy, Contreras remembers to put some loft in his swing. That's it - they're a top 5 offense.

 

The pitching is the real worry to me. If the offense is great it doesn't matter as much as far as the division is concerned, but they're not going to spend any money there and there are no internal options. You're really just hoping you get Hendricks' second-half surge again and that Darvish and Quintana bounce back all year.

[Sammy Sofa]

a SS who despite his power numbers will need to continue being the only guy in baseball history to slide/tag/run the bases like he does in order to remain a 5 WAR player

 

This feels like a HUGE unspoken thing; how many people actually think Baez: Baseball Freakshow is a realistically sustainable scenario? Outside of the general miracle of him being who is, it's double miraculous he's been able to stay healthy given how banged up his style of play must leave him. People seem super casual about him taking over at SS and that being set for the forseeable future, when that doesn't seem like a sure thing at all.

 

It's crazy the Cubs went from, "LULZ, what are we going to do with all of these baller middle infielders?!?" to, "holy horsefeathers; our MI is the bizarre baseball monster that is Javier Baez and the corpse of Ben Zobrist sometimes," in, what, less than 3 years?

[imb]

a SS who despite his power numbers will need to continue being the only guy in baseball history to slide/tag/run the bases like he does in order to remain a 5 WAR player

 

This feels like a HUGE unspoken thing; how many people actually think Baez: Baseball Freakshow is a realistically sustainable scenario? Outside of the general miracle of him being who is, it's double miraculous he's been able to stay healthy given how banged up his style of play must leave him. People seem super casual about him taking over at SS and that being set for the forseeable future, when that doesn't seem like a sure thing at all.

 

It's crazy the Cubs went from, "LULZ, what are we going to do with all of these baller middle infielders?!?" to, "holy horsefeathers; our MI is the bizarre baseball monster that is Javier Baez and the corpse of Ben Zobrist sometimes," in, what, less than 3 years?

 

I will refuse to doubt Baez until he proves doubtable, but it is dubious that he is the only person in the history of the world to have his particular skillset.

 

I will say that his patience has ticked up the last couple months (13 walks the last two months [lol that's an improvement]) so maybe he can Sammy Sosa himself into 50 walks next year?

[jersey cubs fan]

a SS who despite his power numbers will need to continue being the only guy in baseball history to slide/tag/run the bases like he does in order to remain a 5 WAR player

 

This feels like a HUGE unspoken thing; how many people actually think Baez: Baseball Freakshow is a realistically sustainable scenario? Outside of the general miracle of him being who is, it's double miraculous he's been able to stay healthy given how banged up his style of play must leave him. People seem super casual about him taking over at SS and that being set for the forseeable future, when that doesn't seem like a sure thing at all.

 

It's crazy the Cubs went from, "LULZ, what are we going to do with all of these baller middle infielders?!?" to, "holy horsefeathers; our MI is the bizarre baseball monster that is Javier Baez and the corpse of Ben Zobrist sometimes," in, what, less than 3 years?

 

I will refuse to doubt Baez until he proves doubtable, but it is dubious that he is the only person in the history of the world to have his particular skillset.

 

I will say that his patience has ticked up the last couple months (13 walks the last two months [lol that's an improvement]) so maybe he can Sammy Sosa himself into 50 walks next year?

 

He had to do that this year to keep this team competitive w/o Bryant. He will not do that next year, but Bryant and Harper will make up for it.

[imb]

Here's a fun question - what kind of contract would you feel comfortable giving Baez when he hits FA.

[minnesotacubsfan]

 

This feels like a HUGE unspoken thing; how many people actually think Baez: Baseball Freakshow is a realistically sustainable scenario? Outside of the general miracle of him being who is, it's double miraculous he's been able to stay healthy given how banged up his style of play must leave him. People seem super casual about him taking over at SS and that being set for the forseeable future, when that doesn't seem like a sure thing at all.

 

It's crazy the Cubs went from, "LULZ, what are we going to do with all of these baller middle infielders?!?" to, "holy horsefeathers; our MI is the bizarre baseball monster that is Javier Baez and the corpse of Ben Zobrist sometimes," in, what, less than 3 years?

 

I will refuse to doubt Baez until he proves doubtable, but it is dubious that he is the only person in the history of the world to have his particular skillset.

 

I will say that his patience has ticked up the last couple months (13 walks the last two months [lol that's an improvement]) so maybe he can Sammy Sosa himself into 50 walks next year?

 

He had to do that this year to keep this team competitive w/o Bryant. He will not do that next year, but Bryant and Harper will make up for it.

 

"..had to do"? It just seems like his style of play. He's always been a bit of a magic-show infielder and is being watched for that far more this year I think.

[SouthSideRyan]

I know mojo pays no attention to anything, and I do love the turn of phrase "the corpse of x." But Zobrist has been pretty damn good this year.

[CP_414]

I was going to write a devil's advocate type of response but I...am having a hard time. The future certainly doesn't look as bright these days.

 

Everything he wrote is true. But it’s not hard to write an optimistic version of the same thing.

 

 

 

Outfield - Schwarber was a 3.5 war player with an opportunity to improve offensively, Heyward/Almora isn’t great but they probably make up an above average CF platoon, sign motherfucking Bryce Harper.

 

Infield - we know what healthy Kris Bryant is, and Rizzo might be starting to decline but he’s still very good. Even if Javy doesn’t match 2018 it’s easy to see 3.5+ war from him in 2019, Zobrist/Bote/some cheaper free agent can give you good 2b production without being a POS like Russell. Contreras has become a question mark, but 2/3 seasons have been very good.

 

Rotation - Tyler Chatwood won’t get any starts. Yu Darvish can’t possibly give them less than he did in 2018. Hendricks is solid. Even when he’s bad, he’s not that bad. They can keep Hamels. Quintana is fine. Lester is that dude that will outpitch his FIP in the back half of his contract because of the Cubs defense and because he’s Jon Lester.

 

Bullpen - They’ll add arms.

 

Coaches - who cares

 

Take a low 90s win team and give them a healthy Kris Bryant, hopefully a 2016-17 Contreras, no horsefeathering Chatwood starts and Bryce horsefeathering Harper.

[squally1313]

 

This feels like a HUGE unspoken thing; how many people actually think Baez: Baseball Freakshow is a realistically sustainable scenario? Outside of the general miracle of him being who is, it's double miraculous he's been able to stay healthy given how banged up his style of play must leave him. People seem super casual about him taking over at SS and that being set for the forseeable future, when that doesn't seem like a sure thing at all.

 

It's crazy the Cubs went from, "LULZ, what are we going to do with all of these baller middle infielders?!?" to, "holy horsefeathers; our MI is the bizarre baseball monster that is Javier Baez and the corpse of Ben Zobrist sometimes," in, what, less than 3 years?

 

I will refuse to doubt Baez until he proves doubtable, but it is dubious that he is the only person in the history of the world to have his particular skillset.

 

I will say that his patience has ticked up the last couple months (13 walks the last two months [lol that's an improvement]) so maybe he can Sammy Sosa himself into 50 walks next year?

 

He had to do that this year to keep this team competitive w/o Bryant. He will not do that next year, but Bryant and Harper will make up for it.

 

Yeah I'm already dreading the inevitable 'what happened to Javy' takes next year when he isn't getting 100% out of his abilities. But Javy and KB are going to combine for a little over 8 WAR this year...I'll take the over from those two going into 2019.

[Sammy Sofa]

 

I will refuse to doubt Baez until he proves doubtable, but it is dubious that he is the only person in the history of the world to have his particular skillset.

 

I will say that his patience has ticked up the last couple months (13 walks the last two months [lol that's an improvement]) so maybe he can Sammy Sosa himself into 50 walks next year?

 

He had to do that this year to keep this team competitive w/o Bryant. He will not do that next year, but Bryant and Harper will make up for it.

 

"..had to do"? It just seems like his style of play. He's always been a bit of a magic-show infielder and is being watched for that far more this year I think.

 

Dude, he's not being valued more simply because more people are paying attention to him.

[Cubswin11]

Meh, we’ll be fine and are in fine shape moving forward. Most guys will have better years next year, Harper and other moves will be made. Still will easily be the best team in the division for the next few years and one of the best NL teams.

[Sammy Sofa]

I know mojo pays no attention to anything, and I do love the turn of phrase "the corpse of x." But Zobrist has been pretty damn good this year.

 

Everyone knows how well Zobrist has done this season. He's also going to be 38 next year. At the very least his playing time is likely to decrease.

 

Hell, there was also plenty of talk of trying to move him after this season in anticipation of just getting some more money off of the books BECAUSE of how well he had been doing this year, and that's pretty much out the window now.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Sammy Sofa

[UK]

When did IMB turn into the missing poster "Diffusion" with his spot-on analysis of the Cubs roster?

 

Bravo and well done.

[jersey cubs fan]

Here's a fun question - what kind of contract would you feel comfortable giving Baez when he hits FA.

comfortable?

 

veterans minimum