I like Gold Gloves and I cannot lie: the Jason Heyward thread

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I'd feel better if there was *any* indication that he is going to turn around but everything is softly hit. He pops up, grounds out softly to 2nd, or strikes out. Those homers were nice for a stretch but nothing has been sustained. Not surprisingly his Soft Hit% is way up and his Hard Hit % is way down.

 

He's just gonna have to keep doing what he's doing in the outfield and on the basepaths like he has the whole season. Didn't think Baez and Russell would be out-and-out better hitters this year than Heyward, but so it is.

 

The problem is mostly mechanical, so the silver lining is that those types of adjustments can happen real quick. Compare to say, Baez's plate discipline, which is going to be a near perpetual work in progress as he gets better at recognizing pitches so the improvement would be gradual. Mechanical tweaks are more pass/fail in their results.

 

There are some worrisome aspects to Heyward's struggles too, inability to turn around velocity being the biggest. But even that is something that a mechanical/timing tweak can help with, and Heyward's past is informative because there's not a lack of ability/capacity for him to be a good hitter.

[Aaron_Kennelly]

I will say this about that article. It makes a lot of presumptions that Heyward's swing is this fatal flaw that can't be redeemed. Pitchers can attack him like they do a pitcher because of his swing. He can't hit inside pitches because of his swing. He can't hit fastballs because of his swing. Well, he has done those things in the past with the same junk swing. His ugly swing has been a known issue for a long time. Pitchers aren't pitching to him like a pitcher because of the swing. They are pitching to him like a pitcher because he is hitting like a pitcher. If he were hitting like he did last year, with the same ugly swing, then they wouldn't be able to pitch him like he's a pitcher.

 

The only thing that is different is the toe tap. So why are these issues brought up in the article suddenly fatal flaws, because of his swing? It might be a byproduct of the junk swing. He was good enough to survive with it in the past. But now the swing is giving him issues that make these things more evident. However, I don't think that makes it certain that he won't snap out of it. I don't have hope that he will... mainly because he's been so bad for so long this year. That's my main concern. If he keeps hitting like this, eventually that's what he is. But, the article makes it sound like his swing is just now becoming an issue. Well, no, it's the same swing. And it wasn't such an issue in the past. He was still good. Now he isn't. So now we look to it to blame. But, showing things like his inability to go the other way and his average exit velocity doesn't really prove anything. We already know: He's sucked. He's not the same hitter.

 

But, that doesn't mean that he absolutely won't be able to produce with that swing. He's done so in the past. So maybe he figures something out and is able to produce more in the second-half. Still, the swing is ugly and he sucks with it right now. And even when he didn't suck with it, it was still ugly. We need to change it. I was happy when it looked like they were working on a leg kick in the Spring. That's something that's helped a lot of Cubs hitters. I really hope we make significant changes to his swing in the off-season. I know there's a beast in there waiting to come out. I doubt it does this season, and without a swing change, though.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Duke Silver

[Cubswin11]

Maybe he's really a right handed hitter

[Cubswin11]

It still wouldn't surprise me, and I kind of expect it, to see him go on a .330-.350/.450/.400+ stretch in the 2nd half for a month+

[Derwood]

In the past, wasn't he most successful when he was hitting balls to left field? Wasn't a lot of his power to the opposite field? If they're pounding him inside, that explains all the weak contact/grounders to second.

[Gmoney08]

I hope he can do a little better in the second half. But I don't have much hope. His swing is just so ugly. Fix that in the off-season and start over. Until then, he's going to have a rough time. So let's just hope he doesn't hold us back too much offensively.

 

Was his swing always this off and fugly in the past?

 

I know in a thread that I was going into Heywards young very very nice power numbers someone said it was clear he changed his approach/style at the plate. He cut strike outs a ton and upped the walk but zapped his Home Run power in half. The person who responded to me also said that what was interesting was after the change of approach he was very similar in overall production, maybe slightly better than the donging more Heyward. Essentially little power but high obp, low K Heyward was right around as valuable as higher power, decent obp, high K Heyward.

 

I guess my question is did high power Heyward have a different swing or just change his approach? Was his swing prettier when he was donging or was it just raw power cause the guy is built like a god?

[Andy]

[expletive] it we are 8.5 games up on a playoff spot despite being in what will probably be the worst stretch of the season. If his swing is so [expletive] up why can't we fix in season? He's already hitting slightly better than a pitcher and we have like 3 months to kill.

On the one hand, I would think it's probably harder to make adjustments when MLB games are being played, but then Fowler made adjustments last year and turned into a terrifying force of nature for the next 11 months. So I don't know why we couldn't.

[Sammy Sofa]

Outside of him just being a Cub and all Cubs must kick ass, I want him to do well because he seems like such a cool dude.

[raw]

So I was just checking out Heyward's season and, entering today since coming back from the injury in San Fran: .274/.349/.408 with a 15.7% K rate over those 171 PAs.

 

That's not half bad and I would never have guessed watching a still very frustrating season.

 

11-28, .393/.469/.571 since moving down to 6th in the order

12-35, .343/.425/.486 since the start of July

 

And he just struck out for the 2nd time this month today.

 

He's a career .287/.373/.447 hitter in the 2nd half, including a .308/.387/.458 line the last 3 years post ASB, with August typically being by far his best month.

[imb]

it was cool of them to let jason heyward hit in the celeb game

 

https://twitter.com/sports_in_2nds/status/752699650273148928

[Little Slide Rooter]

I don't doubt that his age and track record both point to his ability to turn things around, but until it happens, it could be time to bat him 8th. Maybe 9th when Arrieta or even Hammel are pitching. Just saying.

[Banedon]

I don't doubt that his age and track record both point to his ability to turn things around, but until it happens, it could be time to bat him 8th. Maybe 9th when Arrieta or even Hammel are pitching. Just saying.

 

https://gfycat.com/EthicalGentleJuliabutterfly

[JennieGarthAlgar]

I don't doubt that his age and track record both point to his ability to turn things around, but until it happens, it could be time to bat him 8th. Maybe 9th when Arrieta or even Hammel are pitching. Just saying.

 

With his contract, batting him 8th or 9th just doesn't seem realistic. I think maybe he should try batting right handed or blindfolded or something though.

[David]

I've been lurking on this board for over a year and felt the need to register and make a thread. Nearly the entire NSBB community was in heaven over signing Jason Heyward. Now we're over half a season in and Heyward has been a massive bust. Could Heyward's wrist injury, suffered several months ago, be leading to the lack of being able to hit the ball with authority. If so it may be a good idea to put him on the DL, as he's causing more harm than good.

 

At least this could be a good lesson to some of the users on here that defense should be the key factor in giving big contracts.

 

What an odd thing to say to begin with. His defense is propping him up and keeping him at least somewhat valuable despite his offensive ineptitude.

[bukie]

I don't doubt that his age and track record both point to his ability to turn things around, but until it happens, it could be time to bat him 8th. Maybe 9th when Arrieta or even Hammel are pitching. Just saying.

 

With his contract, batting him 8th or 9th just doesn't seem realistic. I think maybe he should try batting right handed or blindfolded or something though.

I didn't realize there was a clause in his contract that he gets extra money if he bats 8th.

[UMFan83]

I've been lurking on this board for over a year and felt the need to register and make a thread. Nearly the entire NSBB community was in heaven over signing Jason Heyward. Now we're over half a season in and Heyward has been a massive bust. Could Heyward's wrist injury, suffered several months ago, be leading to the lack of being able to hit the ball with authority. If so it may be a good idea to put him on the DL, as he's causing more harm than good.

 

At least this could be a good lesson to some of the users on here that defense should be the key factor in giving big contracts.

 

What an odd thing to say to begin with. His defense is propping him up and keeping him at least somewhat valuable despite his offensive ineptitude.

 

Well that's the thing, the contract might be terrible but given his age he might very well maintain very good defense throughout the contract even if the bat inexplicably doesn't get better. If that's the case, we would definitely regret the deal but towards the end he will still have more value than Soriano whose bat dropped off and defense was never good to begin with.

 

So I mean yes I'm frustrated with him big time, but I think the fact that he provides value in other ways, plus the fact that I wasn't expecting him to be a .900 OPS hitter, makes the sting a little less.

[JennieGarthAlgar]

I don't doubt that his age and track record both point to his ability to turn things around, but until it happens, it could be time to bat him 8th. Maybe 9th when Arrieta or even Hammel are pitching. Just saying.

 

With his contract, batting him 8th or 9th just doesn't seem realistic. I think maybe he should try batting right handed or blindfolded or something though.

I didn't realize there was a clause in his contract that he gets extra money if he bats 8th.

 

C'mon. You know how baseball works at this level. Joe is far from old timey but he didnt even move him down to 6th until Heyward brought the idea to him. Move him to 8th or 9th and the media will never let it go. Its just not realistic IMO , not this year.

[Gmoney08]

Jed was just on Espn1000 with our favorite guy Kapman.

 

Said its easy to admit Heyward is struggling. He turned down Kaplans idea to give him 5 days off in a row to work on his swing. Said him and Malee are putting in tons of hours working on the swing though. Made it sound like Malee's project is pretty much Heyward right now.

 

Also said JHey has had 4 elite seasons in his young 6 years in the league and expects him to turn it around. Points to a good season with the bat last year with the Cards.

[NOLA]

Jed was just on Espn1000 with our favorite guy Kapman.

 

Said its easy to admit Heyward is struggling. He turned down Kaplans idea to give him 5 days off in a row to work on his swing. Said him and Malee are putting in tons of hours working on the swing though. Made it sound like Malee's project is pretty much Heyward right now.

 

Also said JHey has had 4 elite seasons in his young 6 years in the league and expects him to turn it around. Points to a good season with the bat last year with the Cards.

Elite?

[Cubswin11]

IS JASON HEYWARD ELITE!?!?!?!

[Gmoney08]

Jed was just on Espn1000 with our favorite guy Kapman.

 

Said its easy to admit Heyward is struggling. He turned down Kaplans idea to give him 5 days off in a row to work on his swing. Said him and Malee are putting in tons of hours working on the swing though. Made it sound like Malee's project is pretty much Heyward right now.

 

Also said JHey has had 4 elite seasons in his young 6 years in the league and expects him to turn it around. Points to a good season with the bat last year with the Cards.

Elite?

 

Jed's words not mine..

 

I dont know what we want to quantify for elite but I think he has had 4 pretty good seasons with the bat.. combined with his baserunning & defense that is probably close to an elite player in those seasons he was hitting.

[Cubswin11]

I'm not really all that worried about Heyward other than the fact it sucks he's sucked offensively most of the year but I'm not worried he's suddenly turned into Darwin Barney at the plate for the rest of his career or even this season. He's too young, talented and hard of a worker to not turn it around if not this year, at least for how ever many more years he's on the team.

[David]

Jed was just on Espn1000 with our favorite guy Kapman.

 

Said its easy to admit Heyward is struggling. He turned down Kaplans idea to give him 5 days off in a row to work on his swing. Said him and Malee are putting in tons of hours working on the swing though. Made it sound like Malee's project is pretty much Heyward right now.

 

Also said JHey has had 4 elite seasons in his young 6 years in the league and expects him to turn it around. Points to a good season with the bat last year with the Cards.

Elite?

 

2 6 win seasons, 1 5 win season, another 4.7, and also one 3.4 in 104 games.

[Gmoney08]

Jed was just on Espn1000 with our favorite guy Kapman.

 

Said its easy to admit Heyward is struggling. He turned down Kaplans idea to give him 5 days off in a row to work on his swing. Said him and Malee are putting in tons of hours working on the swing though. Made it sound like Malee's project is pretty much Heyward right now.

 

Also said JHey has had 4 elite seasons in his young 6 years in the league and expects him to turn it around. Points to a good season with the bat last year with the Cards.

Elite?

 

2 6 win seasons, 1 5 win season, another 4.7, and also one 3.4 in 104 games.

 

Obviously elite could be viewed differently by different folks but I'd say he had at least 2 elite seasons and 2 damn good seasons, and another 2/3 of a damn good season.

[Gmoney08]

Elite?

 

2 6 win seasons, 1 5 win season, another 4.7, and also one 3.4 in 104 games.

 

Obviously elite could be viewed differently by different folks but I'd say he had at least 2 elite seasons and 2 damn good seasons, and another 2/3 of a damn good season.

 

Quoting myself but Fan Graphs has a chart where they rate 4-5 WAR as an All Star, 5-6 WAR as a Superstar, and 6+ WAR as MVP level production.

 

By that measure which all may not agree with then Jed is right and Heyward has been pretty damned elite.

 

That is 2 seasons in the Superstar/MVP range, another at the AllStar/Superstar range, and 2 more All Star seasons if you assume his 3.4 WAR in 100 games would have carried him to between 4 and 5 WAR.