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Clem Fandango All-Star

Clem Fandango

Old-Timey Member
Posted
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Jordan Hicks threw 22 pitches... to one batter. 10 of those pitches were 99+, eventually the guy walked. Didn't even get ball 3 until pitch 20.

 

He's not gonna last. It's so painfully obvious.

 

Without knowing any more details than what you just said, why do you suggest that he's not gonna make it? It just sounds like he faced an annoying batter who fouled everything off but his velocity was fine. I mean outside of being a hard thrower whose arm is gonna fall off eventually like every other high-velocity pitcher.

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We Got The Whole 9 Myrtle Beach Pelicans

We Got The Whole 9

Old-Timey Member
Posted
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Jordan Hicks threw 22 pitches... to one batter. 10 of those pitches were 99+, eventually the guy walked. Didn't even get ball 3 until pitch 20.

 

He's not gonna last. It's so painfully obvious.

 

Without knowing any more details than what you just said, why do you suggest that he's not gonna make it? It just sounds like he faced an annoying batter who fouled everything off but his velocity was fine. I mean outside of being a hard thrower whose arm is gonna fall off eventually like every other high-velocity pitcher.

Honestly, nothing. Just talking horsefeathers.
sweetpeteman Chicago Cubs

sweetpeteman

Old-Timey Member
Posted
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I would theorize that if he's not going to make it (or at least, isn't going be all that special), it's because despite throwing 100+, batters don't seem to have that much trouble making contact, especially on pitches in the zone.
  • 2 weeks later...
Cubswin11 All-Star

Cubswin11

Old-Timey Member
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Is the 85% based on the 40 man or MLB roster?

Would assume it’s 40 man or at least opening day roster + alt site guys since there’s going to be a lot of movement there.

  • 1 month later...
Banedon GOAT

Banedon

Community Moderator
Posted
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Does anyone know a link or a picture of that program or magazine cover that the Cardinals had where they gave themselves credit for winning the nl central in 2001 even though the Astros did?

 

121577763-e1471451810866.jpg?resize=1024,577

itisallpartoftheplan South Bend Cubs

itisallpartoftheplan

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Does anyone know a link or a picture of that program or magazine cover that the Cardinals had where they gave themselves credit for winning the nl central in 2001 even though the Astros did?

 

121577763-e1471451810866.jpg?resize=1024,577

 

 

Found the program! The sign might be better since it’s on their stadium!

  • 1 month later...
soccer10k Cooperstown

soccer10k

Old-Timey Member
Posted
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Cards have walked 26 batters with the bases loaded this year, after walking 4 with the bases loaded in one inning yesterday. Major league record is 28.

 

They've actually been really good overall with the bases loaded, with the lowest BA and 2nd lowest SLG allowed. However, they’ve allowed the 4th most runs because they’ve faced 171 hitters with the bases loaded, 16 more hitters than the second place team and 41 more than third.

  • 4 weeks later...
Andy GOAT

Andy

Old-Timey Member
Posted
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It's ridiculous that he will get in, but he will hardly be the worst player to ever get in largely because he had the good fortune to be on teams with a bunch of players way better than he is, so whatever I guess
UMFan83 GOAT

UMFan83

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
It's ridiculous that he will get in, but he will hardly be the worst player to ever get in largely because he had the good fortune to be on teams with a bunch of players way better than he is, so whatever I guess

 

He had a HOF like 5 year run from 2008-2012, I think he approached 8 WAR seasons a couple of times. But yeah outside of that he's been anywhere from decent to above average. I almost feel like the media has forced this narrative so much that it went from 'should Yadi be in the HOF' to 'Yadi will definitely be in the HOF' over the last couple of years, and its not like hes done much in the last 3 years to improve his candidacy.

Derwood GOAT

Derwood

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
The dude has been playing for 18 horsefeathering seasons and his counting stats are hilariously bad. Barely 2000 hits, less than 1000 RBI, only 168 HR, career OPS+ of 97, career 55.3 fWAR (propped up entirely by defense)...
fromthestretch First Round Pick

fromthestretch

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
The dude has been playing for 18 horsefeathering seasons and his counting stats are hilariously bad. Barely 2000 hits, less than 1000 RBI, only 168 HR, career OPS+ of 97, career 55.3 fWAR (propped up entirely by defense)...

 

I'm not saying whether he belongs or not, but I looked up some career rankings on Fangraphs and Baseball-Reference, and here's what I've found:

 

Case for him:

He's 10th all-time in fWAR among catchers. As Derwood pointed out, that is LARGELY due to his defense. According to Fangraphs, he's tops in Defensive Runs above Average (380.4) all-time among catchers...with a fairly significant advantage over I-Rod, who is second at 320. So it's not just that he's really good defensively, he's arguably the best ever at that position.

 

Baseball-Reference paints a slightly different picture, giving I-Rod 29.6 DWAR and Molina 26.3.

 

However you slice it, he's still one of the best defensively ever at that position.

 

Case against him:

If you look at the top 60 catchers by fWAR (possibly more, since I didn't go to page 3 of that list), Molina has the second worst Offensive Runs above Average (-106.3) of the entire group. The only one in that group that is worse is Bob Boone (-186.8), and he clocks in at 38th all-time in fWAR among catchers. For context, Russell Martin is 11th all-time in fWAR among catchers at 55.2, and he's at 13.6 Offensive Runs above Average, while Brian McCann is 12th in fWAR at 54.2 with 24.3 Offensive Runs above Average.

 

For even more context, a lot of people say that Ozzie Smith did not have the offensive profile of a Hall of Famer. Like Molina, Smith is tops all-time at his position in Defensive Runs above Average (and he's tops among ALL players in DWAR at 44.2 according to Baseball Reference). However, Smith was at -69.4 Offensive Runs above Average, markedly better than Molina.

NewUserName Myrtle Beach Pelicans

NewUserName

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
The dude has been playing for 18 horsefeathering seasons and his counting stats are hilariously bad. Barely 2000 hits, less than 1000 RBI, only 168 HR, career OPS+ of 97, career 55.3 fWAR (propped up entirely by defense)...

 

I'm not saying whether he belongs or not, but I looked up some career rankings on Fangraphs and Baseball-Reference, and here's what I've found:

 

Case for him:

He's 10th all-time in fWAR among catchers. As Derwood pointed out, that is LARGELY due to his defense. According to Fangraphs, he's tops in Defensive Runs above Average (380.4) all-time among catchers...with a fairly significant advantage over I-Rod, who is second at 320. So it's not just that he's really good defensively, he's arguably the best ever at that position.

 

Baseball-Reference paints a slightly different picture, giving I-Rod 29.6 DWAR and Molina 26.3.

 

However you slice it, he's still one of the best defensively ever at that position.

 

Case against him:

If you look at the top 60 catchers by fWAR (possibly more, since I didn't go to page 3 of that list), Molina has the second worst Offensive Runs above Average (-106.3) of the entire group. The only one in that group that is worse is Bob Boone (-186.8), and he clocks in at 38th all-time in fWAR among catchers. For context, Russell Martin is 11th all-time in fWAR among catchers at 55.2, and he's at 13.6 Offensive Runs above Average, while Brian McCann is 12th in fWAR at 54.2 with 24.3 Offensive Runs above Average.

 

For even more context, a lot of people say that Ozzie Smith did not have the offensive profile of a Hall of Famer. Like Molina, Smith is tops all-time at his position in Defensive Runs above Average (and he's tops among ALL players in DWAR at 44.2 according to Baseball Reference). However, Smith was at -69.4 Offensive Runs above Average, markedly better than Molina.

 

I think Molina is getting in, and it will have nothing to do with stats. He has been over rated by the baseball pundits for 18 yrs. It will be something along the lines of "Molina brings an aspect to the game that cannot be measured."

Clem Fandango All-Star

Clem Fandango

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

Foolish Baseball just did a whole episode on him that talks about both sides. And both sides are right, which makes him a very peculiar case for and against his inclusion in the HOF, though ultimately he determined he's one of the best catchers of all-time, so they think he's a HOF'er.

 

imb MVP

imb

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
i've long ago stopped caring about HoF debates. Players with borderline statistical resumes but strong narrative/storyline/reputation ... let them in. i dont care.

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