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mikeyt34 Draft Eligible

mikeyt34

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

I feel there is a bit of a silver lining in the recent Cardinal win streak. They are 7-6 since the break, which is decent but nothing special. They are a deeply flawed team outside of their starting pitching. They are slow, not very athletic, terrible defensively, fundamentally unsound, and have a ton of middle of the road veterans and "developing" younger players (i.e. Grichuk, Wong, Diaz), and a overrated manager who makes poor decisions consistently. The recent promotions of Kelly and Badar, along with Dejong playing well at SS seems to have energized them a bit keeping them in the race.

 

My point is them being still within striking distance of the division may lead them to keeping players they should truly seek to unload before the trade deadline, like Lynn, Oh, Rosenthal, Siegrist, Carp, Pham, Wong, Grichuk, Gyorko, and Wacha. Keeping these players, even if they don't have a lot of value seems short sighted in the hopes of catching the Cubs who seem to have found their groove in the second half. I hope the Cardinals stand pat, even go so far as trading some of their minor league prospects to obtain bullpen help. They should be thinking about getting younger and more athletic for the future and not consumed with catching the Cubs this year. Who knows, maybe they will pull a rabbit out of their hat and catch the Cubs or the Brewers for the division title but overall this strategy could back fire when there was a chance to get some more decent prospects for several middling players thus effecting their overall quality in 2018 and beyond. I can appreciate the fact that a franchise doesn't want to throw in the towel only being 3.5 game back on July 27, but if they decide to keep everyone knowing several of these guys don't figure in future plans it could set them back for the next few years.

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Banedon GOAT

Banedon

Community Moderator
Posted
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The Cardinals are the closest thing to the MLB version of being stuck in NBA playoff hell. Not good enough to seriously contend and no terrific path to get there, but not bad enough to justify blowing things up.

 

If you aren't good enough to contend, and have no terrific path to get there, then isn't that all the justification you need to blow things up?

David GOAT

David

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
The Cardinals are the closest thing to the MLB version of being stuck in NBA playoff hell. Not good enough to seriously contend and no terrific path to get there, but not bad enough to justify blowing things up.

 

If you aren't good enough to contend, and have no terrific path to get there, then isn't that all the justification you need to blow things up?

 

i don't think nba hell really exists in baseball because the playoffs are the exact opposite of the nba. anyone who gets in can win.

 

that said, if the cardinals aren't even good enough to be in serious competition for one of two wild cards (right now they have 29% playoff odds, 19% of which is for a wild card spot - so, lol at that other 10% or so), then yeah, i'd say blow it up

 

but it's not like it's hard for them to get where they are now to being a solid wild card bet going forward.

 

that said, yeah, i guess with the cubs projecting to varying degrees of juggernaut for the next few years, capping your hopes of contention at a wild card game is sort of hellish.

champaignchris Draft Eligible

champaignchris

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

An aside on Molina...

 

I'm going to find his HoF candidacy fascinating. He's without question one of the top 5 or 6 defensive catchers of all time. The guys in that group that are in the Hall (Bench, Rodriguez, Carter) all hit much better than Molina did. The guys in that group that aren't in the Hall (Sundberg, Boone) all hit far worse than Molina did.

 

Molina is a great defensive player who was a dead average offensive player... OPS+ 98, with a career WAR in the 30s, which doesn't even put him in the top 25 among catchers all time. Does that get you in the Hall?

 

When you take the whole package into account, he's probably not the best catcher in Cardinals history (Ted Simmon, not in the Hall), nor the best catcher of his generation (Joe Mauer and Russell Martin both have solid arguments, and if you consider the 5-years younger Buster Posey to be in the same generation, forget about it).

CubinNY MVP

CubinNY

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
An aside on Molina...

 

I'm going to find his HoF candidacy fascinating. He's without question one of the top 5 or 6 defensive catchers of all time. The guys in that group that are in the Hall (Bench, Rodriguez, Carter) all hit much better than Molina did. The guys in that group that aren't in the Hall (Sundberg, Boone) all hit far worse than Molina did.

 

Molina is a great defensive player who was a dead average offensive player... OPS+ 98, with a career WAR in the 30s, which doesn't even put him in the top 25 among catchers all time. Does that get you in the Hall?

 

When you take the whole package into account, he's probably not the best catcher in Cardinals history (Ted Simmon, not in the Hall), nor the best catcher of his generation (Joe Mauer and Russell Martin both have solid arguments, and if you consider the 5-years younger Buster Posey to be in the same generation, forget about it).

He's already in, we are all just going to have to wait for 7 years. The media love him, he has all the "intangibles" and WS victories. Also, you forgot about McCarver. Really though, I think he deserves to be in the HOF. But also really, who gives a horsefeathers.

Agony and Ivy First Round Pick

Agony and Ivy

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Catcher:

 

Cubs: Wilson Contreras: .269/.340/.485, 113 wRC+, -3.2 BsR, 5 DRS, 2.4 WAR

 

Cardinals Yadier Molina: .272/.304/.406, 81 wRC+, -1.0, BsR, 3 DRS, 1.0 WAR

 

Verdict: This one is tough. [snip]

 

tumblr_nw52vgYiIN1rz6w0do1_500.gif

 

Also, Tommy Pham is now a perennial all star and not just a random outlier.

David GOAT

David

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

What a weird (only) comment on that blog entry

 

Are the Cubs better than the Cardinals?

This is an actual question?

 

The biggest thing I want to add is John Arguella passed away last week from cancer, he being the founder of the Cubs Den, a blog like this one devoted to his team.

 

Not a single mention of it here on VEB…….way to go people…….way to go.

 

by Jaxs5146 on Aug 2, 2017 | 10:02 AM reply

Agony and Ivy First Round Pick

Agony and Ivy

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
What a weird (only) comment on that blog entry

 

Are the Cubs better than the Cardinals?

This is an actual question?

 

The biggest thing I want to add is John Arguella passed away last week from cancer, he being the founder of the Cubs Den, a blog like this one devoted to his team.

 

Not a single mention of it here on VEB…….way to go people…….way to go.

 

by Jaxs5146 on Aug 2, 2017 | 10:02 AM reply

 

I tried to comment but they make you join VEB and then you have to wait a day like I'm buying a horsefeathering gun.

ConstableRabbit Myrtle Beach Pelicans

ConstableRabbit

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

"If the Cardinals can shore up the bullpen, find an impact hitter that can compare to a player like Kris Bryant, and improve the culture of the team(cutting down on mental errors), this team is right there with the Cubs."

 

Is that all?

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